Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:57:50 GMT, "NJ Vike" <ErieLackawa…@Scranton.com> wrote: >This means that if you die without trusting in Jesus >Christ as your Lord and Saviour you will die in your >sins and be forever separated from the love of God in >a place called Hell. >The Holy Bible descibes Hell as a place of eternal >torment, suffering, pain and agony for all those who >have rejected Jesus Christ.

Really?  Where does the bible say this? Chapter and verse please. I thought hell in the Bible meant pit. How come the Jew’s which Christianity is derived from,  and several other religions don’t believe in Hell? Did the Christians build a hell? Is it portable?

Response:

"Eris" <vithan…@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:ipnn71hja183231g3qapd74adkmpclmfhu@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:57:50 GMT, "NJ Vike" > <ErieLackawa…@Scranton.com> wrote: >>This means that if you die without trusting in Jesus >>Christ as your Lord and Saviour you will die in your >>sins and be forever separated from the love of God in >>a place called Hell. >>The Holy Bible descibes Hell as a place of eternal >>torment, suffering, pain and agony for all those who >>have rejected Jesus Christ. > Really?  Where does the bible say this? > Chapter and verse please. > I thought hell in the Bible meant pit. > How come the Jew’s which Christianity is derived from,  and several > other religions don’t believe in Hell? > Did the Christians build a hell? > Is it portable?

IMO, Hell is a sadistic, authoritarian revenge fantasy. Now, that’s an atheist speaking.  But: Of the people I know who describe themselves as Christians, most don’t believe in Hell.  Perhaps this makes them not truly Christians, I don’t know. Krispy might call them Metaphysicals.  Whatever they are, there are more of them all the time.  Hell doesn’t go well with an individualistic, democratic society. IMO (again), most of their children will be nonbelievers.  Some, of course, will be fundamentalists. Cafeteria Christianity seems to me to be a halfway house. Peter

Response:

Peter Leighton wrote: > > How come the Jew’s which Christianity is derived from,  and several > > other religions don’t believe in Hell? > > Did the Christians build a hell? > IMO, Hell is a sadistic, authoritarian revenge fantasy.

I understand your feelings but have a look at Luke 16:19-31. Was Jesus a sadistic authoritarian preacher? > Of the people I know who describe themselves as Christians, most don’t > believe in Hell.  Perhaps this makes them not truly Christians, I don’t > know. Krispy might call them Metaphysicals.  Whatever they are, there are > more of them all the time.

I have a hard time with hell too. I’d like the world’s biggest expletive to suffer like he deserves …. for about .5 seconds. Not for eternity. But I think this is a generational thing. Earlier generations had a much keener sense of justice. If God is wholly Good, how can he tolerate evil? >  Hell doesn’t go well with an individualistic, democratic society.

Surely not, but the Biblical God is a loving God who endured crucifixion so as not to have to punish us. If God is good and He shows us what’s good and we in the free will he’s granted us turn away from it, what else can he do? What about the men who killed Emmet Till and went to their deaths without acknowledging their wrong. Didn’t they live out their lives _choosing_ evil? Could you be their friends? How could a good God choose to compromise with their evil? If God is good and we choose evil, what’s left to us? Hell is just the absence of good. It’s our choice, not God’s. God can’t force us change. So maybe the better question is, when all is said and done, can our cherished individualism, our self-centeredness, co-exist with love? > IMO (again), most of their children will be nonbelievers.  Some, of > course, > will be fundamentalists.

Not everyone who hews to fundamentals is a "fundamentalist." John Paul II, an erudite and sophisticated and deeply loving man, comes immediately to mind. Ken

Response:

On 7 May 2005 09:58:01 -0700, kfw1…@yahoo.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Peter Leighton wrote: >> > How come the Jew’s which Christianity is derived from,  and several >> > other religions don’t believe in Hell? >> > Did the Christians build a hell? >> IMO, Hell is a sadistic, authoritarian revenge fantasy. >I understand your feelings but have a look at Luke 16:19-31. Was Jesus >a sadistic authoritarian preacher? >> Of the people I know who describe themselves as Christians, most >don’t >> believe in Hell.  Perhaps this makes them not truly Christians, I >don’t >> know. Krispy might call them Metaphysicals.  Whatever they are, there >are >> more of them all the time. >I have a hard time with hell too. I’d like the world’s biggest >expletive to suffer like he deserves …. for about .5 seconds. Not for >eternity. But I think this is a generational thing. Earlier generations >had a much keener sense of justice. If God is wholly Good, how can he >tolerate evil? >>  Hell doesn’t go well with an individualistic, democratic society. >Surely not, but the Biblical God is a loving God who endured >crucifixion so as not to have to punish us. If God is good and He shows >us what’s good and we in the free will he’s granted us turn away from >it, what else can he do? What about the men who killed Emmet Till and >went to their deaths without acknowledging their wrong. Didn’t they >live out their lives _choosing_ evil? Could you be their friends? How >could a good God choose to compromise with their evil? If God is good >and we choose evil, what’s left to us? Hell is just the absence of >good. It’s our choice, not God’s. God can’t force us >change. >So maybe the better question is, when all is said and done, can our >cherished individualism, our self-centeredness, co-exist with love? >> IMO (again), most of their children will be nonbelievers.  Some, of >> course, >> will be fundamentalists. >Not everyone who hews to fundamentals is a "fundamentalist." John Paul >II, >an erudite and sophisticated and deeply loving man, comes immediately >to >mind. >Ken

I don’t believe as you do, but I thought your post was well written and thought out. One of the biggest problem I have with America’s bible’s are that the people who translated them were not independent Scholars, but monks who only knew the rudiments of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. There are several website’s devoted to the mistranslations in the bible. My favorite mistranslation is Thou Shall Not Kill. We had a ball with that one in Vietnam. We were told by the priests that we were not trained killers, but trained defenders. All in how you look at it.

Response:

There are 6 words in Hebrew that could be translated ‘kill.’ IIRC, the word in the ten commandments refers to the act of murder. If the writer of Exodus wanted to rule out acts of war, there was another word in Hebrew he could have used.

Response:

Noah and The Ark – 21st Century Version The Ark In the year 2005, the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in the United States, and said, "Once again, the earth has become wicked and overpopulated and I see the end of all flesh before me. Build another Ark and save two of every living thing along with a few good humans." He gave Noah the blueprints, saying, "You have six months to build the Ark before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights." Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his yard. but no ark. "Noah"! He roared, "I’m about to start the rain! Where is the Ark?" "Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah. "But things have changed I needed a building permit. I’ve been arguing with the inspector about the need for a sprinkler system. My neighbors claim that I’ve violated the neighborhood zoning laws by building the Ark in my yard and exceeding the height limitations. We had to go to the Development Appeal Board for a decision. Then the Department of Transportation demanded a bond be posted for the future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions, to clear the passage for the Ark’s move to the sea. I argued that the sea would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it. Getting the wood was another problem. There’s a ban on cutting local trees in order to save the spotted owl. I tried to convince the environmentalists that I needed the wood to save the owls. But no go! When I started gathering the animals, I got sued by an animal rights group. They insisted that I was confining wild animals against their will. As well, they argued the accommodation was too restrictive and it was cruel and inhumane to put so many animals in a confined space. Then the EPA ruled that I couldn’t build the Ark until they’d conducted an environmental impact study on your proposed flood. I’m still trying to resolve a complaint with the Human Rights Commission on how many minorities I’m supposed to hire for my building crew. Also, the trades unions say I can’t use my sons. They insist I have to hire only Union workers with Ark building experience. To make matters worse, the IRS seized all my assets, claiming I’m trying to leave the country illegally with endangered species. So, forgive me, Lord, but it would take at least ten years for me to finish this Ark." Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow stretched across the sky. Noah looked up in wonder and asked, "You mean, You’re not going to destroy the world?". "No," said the Lord. "The government beat me to it." <Ronald700…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1115408526.817951.7390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… This is the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason some people don’t know for sure if they are going to Heaven when they die is because they just don’t know. The good news is that you can know for sure that you are going to Heaven. The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful place with no death, sorrow, sickness or pain. God tells us in the Holy Bible how simple it is to be saved so that we can live forever with Him in Heaven. "For if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:9) Over 2000 years ago God came from Heaven to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to shed His blood and die on a cross to pay our sin debt in full. Jesus Christ was born in Israel supernaturally to a virgin Jewish woman named Mary and lived a sinless life for thirty-three years. At the age of thirty-three Jesus was scourged and had a crown of thorns pressed onto His head then Jesus was crucified. Three days after Jesus died on a cross and was placed in a grave Jesus rose from the dead as Jesus said would happen before Jesus died. If someone tells you that they are going to die and then three days later come back to life and it actually happens then this person must be the real deal. Jesus Christ is the only person that ever lived a perfect sinless life. This is why Jesus is able to cover our sins(misdeeds) with His own blood because Jesus is sinless. The Holy Bible says, "In Him(Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins…" (Ephesians 1:7) If you would like God to forgive you of your past, present and future sins just ask Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Saviour. It doesn’t matter how old you are or how many bad things that you have done in your life including lying and stealing all the way up to murder. Just pray the prayer below with your mouth and mean it from your heart and God will hear you and save you. Dear Jesus Christ, I want to be saved so that I can have a home in Heaven with You when I die. I agree with You that I am a sinner. I believe that You love me and want to save me. I believe that You bled and died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins and that You rose from the dead. Please forgive my sins and come into my heart and be my Lord and Saviour. Thanks Lord Jesus Christ for forgiving me and saving me through Your merciful grace. Amen. Welcome to the family of God if you just allowed God to save you. Now you are a real Christian and you can know for sure that you will live in Heaven forever when this life comes to an end. As a child of God we are to avoid sin(wrongdoing), but if you do sin the Holy Bible says, "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense Jesus Christ, the Righteous One." Those of you that have not yet decided to place your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ may never get another chance to do so because you do not know when you will die. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life: no one can come to the Father(God)(in Heaven), but by me." (John 14:6) This means that if you die without trusting in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour you will die in your sins and be forever separated from the love of God in a place called Hell. The Holy Bible descibes Hell as a place of eternal torment, suffering, pain and agony for all those who have rejected Jesus Christ. The good news is that you can avoid Hell by allowing Jesus Christ to save you today. Only then will you have true peace in your life knowing that no matter what happens you are on your way to Heaven. Praise the Lord! Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ Ronald L. Grossi * Show this to your family and friends so they can also be saved. * This message may get deleted so you may want to print a copy. * Just press the [Ctrl][P] keys on your keyboard to print this page. `