Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

I haven’t really figured out what to think of "near death"  experiences, but the Scriptures to say, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." Nothing is said about being absent while hovering overhead.  I’m just wondering if the whole thing isn’t contrived by the evil one to give us a generic sense of the here after so that we don’t feel the need of salvation. Just a thought.

Response:

<<Is there anything on the web or in print about near-death experiences from a Christian perspective that doesn’t immediately dismiss them… I have two books that might fit your question: (1) Brennan Hill, THE NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE: A CHRISTIAN APPROACH, Religious Education Division, Wm C. Bown Company Publishers, Dubuque, Iowa, 1981. [This book is a symposium that was presented by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany, NY, in which priests --including Jesuits--discussed and interviewed people who claimed NDEs.  They were open to the phenomenon, but did not not qualify it.] (2) Hans Kung, ETERNAL LIFE: LIFE AFTER DEATH AS A MEDICAL, PHILOSOPHICAL, AND THEOLOGICAL PROBLEM, Image Books, 1985. [Kung is a premier Christian theologian, an academican connected with Tubingen University, Germany.  He, too, keeps the issue open.] Hope this helps, –Beatrix

Response:

Protohiro, Thanks for the URL on the Ketamine research, but I’m already familiar with it.  I probably should have mentioned that I learned of the near death experience in a counseling session, and am posting this under a pseudonym to maintain confidentiality for the woman involved.  She is terrified of someone in her congregation finding out what happened to her and getting the reputation of being a flake or a cultist. She is a committed, lifelong Christian who, to the best of my knowledge, has never had any interest in the paranormal or the occult. She is college educated, a member of a mainline Christian denominationn, has taught Sunday School, and served on the Church Board.  This is not something that she has shared.  The reason that it came up is that it has been torturing her for several years since it happened, since some of the things that she experienced do not match the doctrines of her denomination. As to the Ketamine research, the thesis you are referring to has not met with a lot of acceptance in either psychiatric or psychological circles.  I know that the researcher is gung ho on it, but there are just too many discrepancies in the drug induced experiences and in what near death survivors report.  There is a superficial similarity to some of the stages of a near death experience, but none of them ever went as far or were as convincing to the people undergoing them as actual reported near death experiences are.  Also, Ketamine has a tendency to induce anxiety as well, producing the equivalent of a "bad trip."  In the medical literature, there is no generally convincing model that explains what produces full blown NDE’s. What I am looking for is not medical or psychological pointers, burt religious and spiritual ones.  As I mentioned, the woman involved is a committed Christian.  Because of the nature of her experience, and the nature of her beliefs, she finds herself unable to simply write it off as "off the devil," or "unbibllical."  From what I have seen in web and literature searches, there is nothing available that deals with the spiritual aspect of this kind of an experience in a supportive, positive way without either condemning it out of hand or accepting it without reservation. That’s what I need at this point.  Thanks, and sorry for not making myself clear enough, but I’m hypersensitive about confidentiality in this case. Laz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Cyclohexamines/Ketamine/Ketamine_near-de… l

Response:

Thanks for sharing your personal opinions on the subject.  Hopefully, others will do so as well. First, and above all else, no one should forget that when dealing with someone who has had a near death experience, the primary perspective should be pastoral.  Telling someone who has lived through one of these that, in effect,  "it’s all in their head" is probably going to propell them right out of the doors of the Church and into the waiting arms of a new age group.   Unless you have ministered with some of these folks (and yes, I have — in over a dozen years of hospital ministry) you simply have no idea how real and how important these experiences can be to people.  Trying to tell them that it is nothing more than an emotional high brought on by a brain abnormality would have the same kind of effect as telling a new convert to the faith that their "mountaintop" experience of God was going to pass all too soon and they will rather quickly find themselves in one of the valleys of life again.  The aim is to be supportive and realistic, but not to be uncaring and insensitive. Some further points of clarification.  First, there is <no current consensus in the medical community on what causes near death experiences.  There are many theories, none of which have been proven and many of which have been discarded with more research.  Most clergy are several years out of date on this subject. The idea that near death experiences can be completely explained as a medical phenomenon is very much a minority opinion among researchers in the field.  I think that you would find, from their published writings, that the minority who hold it would also explain religious faith and all spiritual experiences as nothing more than a medical phenomenon or a biochemical abberation. The drug you mention, which is ketamine, produces a disassociative state and can create autoscopic hallucinations where someone seems to have left their body and is floating in the air looking at themselves. It can also produce a tunnel-like effect, and stimulate memories of past events.  It does not, however, produce all or even most of the significant aspects of a near death experience any more than a dose of Ecstasy is equivalent to agape.  It also does <not work by disconnecting the majority of the brain from the body and producing sensory deprivation.  It apparently works by stimulating the limbic system of the brain, since experiments on direct stimulation of that portion of the  brain by electricity or magnetism by a Canadian researcher produce similar results.  There is only one researcher who has investigated ketamine and near death experiences, and although he personally believes that he has found the key his published results do not support his contention and it is not widely supported in the medical community. Can ketamine "explain" near death experiences?  No, not from a scientific perspective.  Producing some of the perceptual effects through brain stimulation does not "explain" the phenomenon since it does not produce all of the effects.  It only provides a physical brain mechanism that might point us toward a different mode of perception.  If someone claims to "hear" the voice of God speaking to them, do we evaluate that claim based on neurology or based on the Bible, tradition and the fruit of the message received? More to the point, the other medical explanations for near death experiences — hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) and tunnel vision, massive releases of natural endorphins, "wish fulfillment" hallucinations during emotional trauma, reliving the birth experience — all of them have by now been discarded by most near death researchers in the medical field because they have either been disproven, cannot be scientifically evaluated and are only speculation, and/or only explain a small portion of the near death experience.  Researchers are still looking for a non-spiritual explanation that will match up with the known facts.  They are coming up dry. I wish that there was more evaluation of these experiences, because some of them are very troubling from a theological perspective — especially the ones that get the most press. I am very sceptical of near death experience reports that match up perfectly with a person’s pre-existing religions ideas — i.e., new-agers who meet an all-forgiving "Aquarian" Jesus and float around in heavenly cities with magical crystals, or mormons who have mormon encounters, etc.  (Please do not misunderstand me, I would be just as sceptical of an account by an episcopalian that matched perfectly episcopalian expectations and polity.)  What give me the most food for thought are three sets of near death experiences that are harder to explain away: 1.)  The near death experiences of young children. 2.)  Near death experiences in other religious traditions that closely match the "core" near death experience of Christians (but which also contain symbols of their faith tradition). 3.)  Historical near death experience accounts from long before Moody wrote his book and made the phenomenon "trendy."  I forget the title of the book and the author, but their was a very thorough academic study on this in particular that suggest this is not just a modern, copy-cat phenomenon. I wish that I had some specific resources to recommend to you for your friend.  Unfortunately, I don’t know of anything except what you yourself mentioned — uncritical new age anecdotes, and attacks by conservatives calling the whole thing a work of the devil.  My prayers are with you. James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lot of documentation that this is really only a medical phenomenon.  I can’t remember my source on this, I should look it up, but there is a drug that was an experimental anesthetic that could induce near-death experiences.  The drug worked by disconnecting the majority of the brain from the body, all sensation was gone.  Use was discontinued because the people who it was tested on reported intense experiences, and described being in a tunnel and approaching a bright light.  It would seem (I could be wrong, people can check me on this…) that in very traumatic situations the brain cuts itself off from the body, perhaps to protect us in times of great pain.  The emotionally intense experience arrives when this situation occurs. There are a lot of ways, including christian ones, to explain the intense emotional experience that follows, but I don’t think any rational one really approaches this as what we will experience at our deaths.  We will have to wait and see for that.  I don’t believe that we are meant to know on Earth what heaven is like. -Stephen Is there anything on the web or in print about near-death experiences from a Christian perspective that doesn’t immediately dismiss them as phony or satanic?  I’ve got a friend who has had one, and is trying to come to grips with what happened, but all I’ve been able to come up with for her are fundamentalist attack pieces and New Age accounts. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks. Laz

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Is there anything on the web or in print about near-death experiences from a Christian perspective that doesn’t immediately dismiss them as phony or satanic?  I’ve got a friend who has had one, and is trying to come to grips with what happened, but all I’ve been able to come up with for her are fundamentalist attack pieces and New Age accounts. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks. Laz

Response:

There is a lot of documentation that this is really only a medical phenomenon.  I can’t remember my source on this, I should look it up, but there is a drug that was an experimental anesthetic that could induce near-death experiences.  The drug worked by disconnecting the majority of the brain from the body, all sensation was gone.  Use was discontinued because the people who it was tested on reported intense experiences, and described being in a tunnel and approaching a bright light.  It would seem (I could be wrong, people can check me on this…) that in very traumatic situations the brain cuts itself off from the body, perhaps to protect us in times of great pain.  The emotionally intense experience arrives when this situation occurs. There are a lot of ways, including christian ones, to explain the intense emotional experience that follows, but I don’t think any rational one really approaches this as what we will experience at our deaths.  We will have to wait and see for that.  I don’t believe that we are meant to know on Earth what heaven is like. -Stephen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anything on the web or in print about near-death experiences from a Christian perspective that doesn’t immediately dismiss them as phony or satanic?  I’ve got a friend who has had one, and is trying to come to grips with what happened, but all I’ve been able to come up with for her are fundamentalist attack pieces and New Age accounts. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks. Laz

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http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/Cyclohexamines/Ketamine/Ketamine_near-de… l – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anything on the web or in print about near-death experiences from a Christian perspective that doesn’t immediately dismiss them as phony or satanic?  I’ve got a friend who has had one, and is trying to come to grips with what happened, but all I’ve been able to come up with for her are fundamentalist attack pieces and New Age accounts. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks. Laz

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