Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However I do not see him lashing out an the Russian Orthodox, the Southern Baptists, the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, or even the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons or the Moonies. Does anyone know what motivates his vitriolic? I’ve put an article on my website – http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/sdahate.html – dealing with how I see his posts – indirectly it may answer your question. God bless, Stephen
Thanks, Stephen, I read your web page. It was interesting, but nothing unique as to the Seventh Day Adventists. Ever since Martin Luther posted his "95 Theses" on the cathedral doors at Wittenburg, there has been a strong tendency to slander the Catholic Church for crimes either they did not commit or for which they were not the only ones guilty. I was raised Baptist and as a Baptist, you cannot imagine the horrible stories I head about the Catholics. Some of them were true, unfortunately; some were not. For many others I could not find no evidence as to whether they were true or not, such as stories of tunnels connecting monasteries and convents in which incredible orgies were alleged to have been committed. True? False? Who is to say for sure. Some of the points on which most Protestants blasted the Catholics were even points on which the Catholics actually took pride, such as the sale of indulgences (a major spark for the Protestant Reformation) and the insane doctrine that even the most corrupt and evil of Popes can speak with the same authority as God Himself and, in doing so, like God Himself, be totally free from any possibility of error. Others were true things of which the Catholic Church had never asked forgiveness, such as the sheer horror of the Inquisition, especially in Spain, though elsewhere, too. I heard several and often conflicting stories about the origin of eating fish on Fridays, all of which were demeaning to the Catholic Church and not all of them could possibly be true. I even heard of a few stories of cannibalism. Old SDA literature about the RC church, I am sure, is rife with inaccuracies, misunderstandings, misinterpretations and occasional downright lies. Likewise, much of Protestantism has similar stories. Similarly, I have heard of stories from the early days of the Counterreformation where Catholics told similar stories on us. Since neither side is without sin in this area, neither side has the right to throw the first stone. The SDA’s were, by no means, unique in their Anti-Catholic vitriolic. Some of the biggest haters of the RC church are the Jehovah’s Witnesses, yet Shan, in his fury hangs all charges against one minor player, the SDA church. — Andy Rugg – The Cheerful Pickle To email me, please remove "postheap" from my email address. Thanks.
Response:
Some of the points on which most Protestants blasted the Catholics were even points on which the Catholics actually took pride, such as the sale of indulgences (a major spark for the Protestant Reformation) and the insane doctrine that even the most corrupt and evil of Popes can speak with the same authority as God Himself and, in doing so, like God Himself, be totally free from any possibility of error.
Pride in the sale of indulgences? I doubt it. Alms is a form of prayer, but the way that alms were solicited bordered on simony. No one’s proud of that. You’ve got your papal doctrine wrong, too. We Catholics believe that the papacy (the office) is a gift to the Church, as is the episcopacy (bishops). The guarantee that Christ will always be with us and that the Holy Spirit will always teach us means that the Church can never seriously err in what it teaches about salvation. The Church can never be the antiChrist, because it is the Body of Christ. The responsibility for maintaining this sacred trust falls on all of us, but primarily on the bishops, including the Bishop of Rome, who is the successor of Peter. The bishops and popes can be awful sinners, horrible men, but they as a body cannot seriously err in what that teach concerning salvation. It is not THEM, it is Christ’s promise. The body of bishops in the Imperial church showed themselves to be weak when pressured by the Emperor. Patriarchs and prelates all signed up for heresies under the emperor’s forceful leadership. But the Bishop of Rome didn’t. And so the belief grew that the bishops WITH the bishop of Rome cannot seriously err in matters of faith and moral teaching. The bishops WITHOUT him have no such guarantee. It has nothing to do with their personal sinfulness. It isn’t about them, anyway. It is a gift for the Church; we can have confidence in his teachings. But even there the teaching has been narrowed. Not ALL teachings are covered. There are no guarantees about papal teachings outside of faith and morals. Papal teachings on economics or politics or science or whatever, unless they center on moral principles bearing on salvation, are his personal teachings. We treat them with respect, but the next pope could have entirely different ideas. We have had popes who were horrible sinners. We have had popes who were ignorant. We have had popes who were scoundrels. We may even have had popes who were personal heretics. But we have not had popes who taught heresy to the church as official Church teaching.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However I do not see him lashing out an the Russian Orthodox, the Southern Baptists, the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, or even the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons or the Moonies. Does anyone know what motivates his vitriolic? I’ve put an article on my website – http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/sdahate.html – dealing with how I see his posts – indirectly it may answer your question. God bless, Stephen Thanks, Stephen, I read your web page. It was interesting, but nothing unique as to the Seventh Day Adventists.
If you mean my content, I don’t know of many Catholic sites that address the issue from a Catholic perspective. If you mean the vitriol I’m complaining about, no, it’s certainly not limited to SDAs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ever since Martin Luther posted his "95 Theses" on the cathedral doors at Wittenburg, there has been a strong tendency to slander the Catholic Church for crimes either they did not commit or for which they were not the only ones guilty. I was raised Baptist and as a Baptist, you cannot imagine the horrible stories I head about the Catholics. Some of them were true, unfortunately; some were not. For many others I could not find no evidence as to whether they were true or not, such as stories of tunnels connecting monasteries and convents in which incredible orgies were alleged to have been committed. True? False? Who is to say for sure. Some of the points on which most Protestants blasted the Catholics were even points on which the Catholics actually took pride, such as the sale of indulgences (a major spark for the Protestant Reformation)
The Church recognises that as an abuse, not as something good. Individual Catholics may have liked the idea, however. and the insane doctrine that even the most corrupt and evil of Popes can speak with the same authority as God Himself and, in doing so, like God Himself, be totally free from any possibility of error.
It depends on what angle you take. Real Catholic teaching is that it’s simply guidance by God – if someone is led by God, he can’t lead the Church astray. We believe Jesus promised that. It’s interesting that the bad popes did little to advance the faith, but they never did anything in the infallible arena to harm it. It was the good popes who took the Church forward there. Others were true things of which the Catholic Church had never asked forgiveness, such as the sheer horror of the Inquisition, especially in Spain, though elsewhere, too.
Of course, there is always sin wherever there is humanity, so there is always stuff to ask forgiveness for. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard several and often conflicting stories about the origin of eating fish on Fridays, all of which were demeaning to the Catholic Church and not all of them could possibly be true. I even heard of a few stories of cannibalism. Old SDA literature about the RC church, I am sure, is rife with inaccuracies, misunderstandings, misinterpretations and occasional downright lies. Likewise, much of Protestantism has similar stories. Similarly, I have heard of stories from the early days of the Counterreformation where Catholics told similar stories on us. Since neither side is without sin in this area, neither side has the right to throw the first stone. The SDA’s were, by no means, unique in their Anti-Catholic vitriolic. Some of the biggest haters of the RC church are the Jehovah’s Witnesses, yet Shan, in his fury hangs all charges against one minor player, the SDA church.
It depends on what your experience is. My experience was primarily with SDAs, and it was in writing back to them that I put together stuff for my site. So my focus is largely on defending Catholicism from Adventism. Shan, I think, had an SDA wife – so his focus would be there too. God bless, Stephen — — Stephen Korsman www.theotokos.co.za www.theotokos.co.za/adventism IC | XC NI | KA
Response:
Hi, gang, I am trying to fathom what is with Shan that he has such a seething hatred of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. Jesus said for us to love fellow believers, to love our neighbors and to love our enemies. That covers just about everyone, yet he continues with his intense hatred of the Seventh Day Adventists. I understand that he is Roman Catholic, apparently of an old school of Catholic that believes that all non-Catholics are going to hell, presumably including even Protestant and Eastern Orthodox. However I do not see him lashing out an the Russian Orthodox, the Southern Baptists, the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, or even the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons or the Moonies. Does anyone know what motivates his vitriolic? — Andy Rugg – The Cheerful Pickle To email me, please remove "postheap" from my email address. Thanks.
Response:
Cheerful: Shan either had a wife, or a girlfriend who was a SDA. When she kicked his sorry ass out the door, Shan went on his hate filled rant about SDAs. If you read his crap, it’s not hard to see why she sent him packing. I doubt that he is even catholic, if he is, they have no idea what kind of crap he does his his spare time. You would think he would get over being dumped and get on with his life.
Response:
Hi, gang, I am trying to fathom what is with Shan that he has such a seething hatred of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. Jesus said for us to love fellow believers, to love our neighbors and to love our enemies. That covers just about everyone, yet he continues with his intense hatred of the Seventh Day Adventists. I understand that he is Roman Catholic, apparently of an old school of Catholic that believes that all non-Catholics are going to hell, presumably including even Protestant and Eastern Orthodox.
He doesn’t believe that they go to hell, not from what I’ve read of his posts. However I do not see him lashing out an the Russian Orthodox, the Southern Baptists, the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, or even the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Mormons or the Moonies. Does anyone know what motivates his vitriolic?
I’ve put an article on my website – http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/sdahate.html – dealing with how I see his posts – indirectly it may answer your question. God bless, Stephen — — Stephen Korsman www.theotokos.co.za www.theotokos.co.za/adventism IC | XC NI | KA
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.