Question:
YAWN… been there… refuted that… what’s the repeats for Peter? Can’t find anyone new to quote? Because it’s clear you can’t come up with an independent thought on your own… **** DON’T FEED THE REDNECK TROLL*****
It has been muted for quite some time that the a.r.c.r.c NG has been infiltrated by catholic neo Nazi whose hidden agendas are to promote religious imperialism with strong racially superior overtones. You don’t have to wear an SS uniform to be a Nazi or a white supremacist, you only need to proclaim such as cultural and religious superiority by insisting that black African village traditions should be replaced with cucasian catholic culture. I have on more than a few occasions been asked by a some posters as to why I have continued badgering Will if he is a neo-Nazi. Allow me to explain. This initial conversation which generated my suspicions was all about a discussion concerning Aids in Africa which touched on topics such as, the pope condemning of condoms causing aids, promiscuity as an endemic reality to African culture, Wills insistence that immorality among ALL African was the prime reason why aids continued to spread so vehemently and Wills insistence that African Village life (i.e.Historic African cultural traditions) be changed to Catholic culture (even though he denied saying this till I posted the evidence which refuted his denials) as being his view of the basis by which aids in Africa could be halted. That is the final solution according to Will in not as many words: they are black!! they are immoral!! and they have to change their culture to suit Catholicism!!..Spare me it sounds like something out of medieval papacy or an inquisition, which I suggested at the time it WAS! Put simply in as few words as possible…I said as a reaction to Wills grandstanding on the morality question (even though most Catholics including the religious hierarchy do and have never ever lived up to these ideals), that telling Africans that they are immoral is difficult because promiscuity is such an integral part of African culture and traditions. Will spitting the dummy angrily came back at me with some draconian racist overtone that; well African culture is immoral and thus they will have to change their traditional village life and replace it with CATHOLIC CULTURE. (evidence provided forthwith). Naturally being the kinds of person that I am, I reacted in disbelief at his racist and almost imperial overtones. I could not believe that in this modern age of intellectual honesty and especially from one that say’s he follows Christ, that anyone but a HARDENED RACIST could say such an ignorant and hurtful thing against a third world peoples, not privy to our education and monetary advantage. To my thinking his off the cuff opinion simply exposed a deeper side of this person as I will demonstrate. Given that the issue here was whether a cultural promiscuous African village people can live up to a religious based Roman catholic standard of morality that even Catholics never ever live up to. Will, the clear patterns within your racist based response are NO different to what one would expect from Adolph Hitler or some White supremacist group. This is what you said in the very FIRST statement on the issue on the 12-7-01…not the postings you have been deceiving the group with you made after backtracking from this original statement, much LATER. (((If we want to help these people, we also need to teach them that they can live in *1 of 2 cultures – Either the *Catholic culture that does notcondone, promote, etc. that lifestyle, or the culture of the village,etc. which does. *There is a clear disconnect between those cultures… *I don’t mean to be stigmatizing them…just pointing out that the Pope is not to blame for the actions. *the cases you rightly pointed out where it is culturally wrong for the woman to not consent to sex, etc. *That is NOT a Catholic culture. They are not living a Catholic lifestyle, so blaming Catholicism & the Pope for the spread of AIDs is an incorrect conclusion.))) ((( KEY phrases.. * 1 of 2 cultures, * Catholic culture does not condone that lifestyle or the culture of the village etc. * There is a clear distinction between those cultures. * That is not Catholic culture. *They are NOT living catholic lifestyle. * I do not mean stigmatising them))) Wills underlying attitude is endemic to the beliefs promoted by Adolph Hitler and right winged KKK white supremacy groups!! ** Adolph Hitler said: All human culture, all the result of art, science of technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the product of the Aryan. The very facts admits of the not founded inference that he alone was the founder of all higher humanity, therefore representing prototype all of that we understand of the word man. (Mein Kamphf, 290) ** Will Vordm..said: Either the catholic culture that does not condone, promote etc, that lifestyle, or the culture of the village….There is a clear distinction between those cultures….( Yes Will as you are clearly saying that there is a distinction between immoral black African village traditions and white catholic culture..right??) ** Adolph Hitler said: We do NOT JUDGE by merely artistic or military standards or even by scientific ones. We judge by SPIRITUAL ENERGY which a people are capable of putting forth. ( Edouard Caloc. Secrete conversations with Hitler, 68.) ** Will Vordm said: I do not mean to be stigmatising them..That is not catholic culture..They are not living catholic lifestyles. ( One thing indicative about racists and what I found in most neo Nazi or white supremacist sites is that while they ALL claim not be to judging people, they do SO by some hidden doctrinal or spiritual religious supremacy. You are no different Will.) ** Knights of the KKK say: We are promoters of white Christian civilisation…These cherished and essential engrediances to a civilised and moral society.. ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those two cultures. Catholic that does not promote, condone etc that lifestyle or culture of the village…that is not catholic culture…they are not living catholic lifestyle. ( How can you judge the whole of African culture as some kind of immoral cespit that does not match catholic ideals. Don’t you know anything about the history of your perverted Roman religion.) ** Knights of the KKK say: When we give honour to these ideals we give honour to our ancestors and our white Christian culture. ** Will Vordm says: this is not catholic culture….they are not living catholic culture. ** Adolph Hitler said: Since the blood (soul) and the Aryans contained specific energies, the "cultural energies" or "racial elements". ( Mein Khampf, 394) ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those cultures..they can live in one or two cultures…either the Catholic culture or the culture of the village! This is not catholic culture. (It’ really not about the distinction between immoral Africans and catholic ideology is it Will..It’s the fact that they are black and your using religion to hide your prejudices.) ** Adolph Hitler said: TWO worlds face each other. men of God or men of Satan. ( Rauschning, Hitler speaks, 238.) Will Vordm says: We also need to teach them that they can live in 1 or 2 cultures. either catholic….or village lifestyle. ( This statement is quite unbelievable and even by itself leaves you standing naked…a german american racist???) Furthermore..I invite you to measure Wills statement below with what I have illustrated above. I’m not judging their morality – their culture teaches one thing. By my standards, they are wrong, yes. BUT, they are not living by my standards. They are living by their cultural standards that they have had for generations. The Catholic Church came to teach them… … If they choose to embrace those teachings, then they will see, that by the Bible, some of their cultural traditions are wrong. If they choose to not embrace those teachings, then they will continue. I’m not saying that they are immoral…. Apologise Will, because no amount of diversion will make this GO AWAY! SHOULD ANYONE WANT THE FULL POSTS WITH HEADERS CONCERNING ANY OF THE ABOVE I WOULD BE MOST HAPPY TO E-MAIL THEM TO YOU.) PeterT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Catholic Church at the United Nations: Church or State? Guest article by David Nolan The Vatican at the United Nations Around the world increasing scrutiny is being paid to the role the Vatican plays at the United Nations. While the Holy See-as it is called in diplomatic circles-does a lot of good work at the UN, when it comes to women’s rights, gay rights, reproductive rights and preventing the spread of AIDS, the Vatican falls back on religious dogma to oppose even the most basic proposals: When women were raped during the conflict in Bosnia, the Vatican used its position at the UN to condemn the provision of emergency contraception. Even though millions in Africa are infected with HIV/AIDS, the Vatican uses its position at the UN to block approval of condoms and safer sex initiatives. Some members of the church hierarchy even tell people that condoms cause AIDS. While women in Latin America die from pregnancy-related complications, the Vatican opposes even the mention of
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Response:
YAWN… been there… refuted that… what’s the repeats for Peter? Can’t find anyone new to quote? Because it’s clear you can’t come up with an independent thought on your own… **** DON’T FEED THE REPETITIVE TROLL*****
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Catholic Church at the United Nations: Church or State? Guest article by David Nolan The Vatican at the United Nations Around the world increasing scrutiny is being paid to the role the Vatican plays at the United Nations. While the Holy See-as it is called in diplomatic circles-does a lot of good work at the UN, when it comes to women’s rights, gay rights, reproductive rights and preventing the spread of AIDS, the Vatican falls back on religious dogma to oppose even the most basic proposals: When women were raped during the conflict in Bosnia, the Vatican used its position at the UN to condemn the provision of emergency contraception. Even though millions in Africa are infected with HIV/AIDS, the Vatican uses its position at the UN to block approval of condoms and safer sex initiatives. Some members of the church hierarchy even tell people that condoms cause AIDS. While women in Latin America die from pregnancy-related complications, the Vatican opposes even the mention of safe abortion, as well as emergency contraception. About The "See Change" Campaign In November, three Dutch parliamentarians applauded The "See Change" Campaign-the international effort to open a review of the "state" status of the Catholic church at the United Nations. Days later, a senior Italian member of parliament followed suit, as did two Belgian Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). Why would politicians, non-governmental organizations and human rights groups voice concern about a seemingly benign power at the United Nations? The Dutch deputies Lousewies van der Laan, Elly Plooij van Goorsel and Joke Swiebel issued a statement arguing that the Vatican’s privileged position at the UN forces the organization into serious policy compromises on women and youth. "The consequences of these concessions are especially visible in poor countries where thousands of women die as a result of illegal abortions, and millions are contaminated by the AIDS virus," they said. In Italy, Marco Pannella, a co-founder of the Radical Party, called for the Vatican’s status as a separate country to be abolished. Pannella argued that the Vatican was "using the holy water sprinkler to bless the baton … against science, conscience, democracy and tolerance, if not worse: against the lives of millions of people." Meanwhile, Bart Staes and Kathleen Van Brempt in Belgium issued their own statement in favor of the campaign. These comments are part of a quietly growing campaign in which people from every part of the world are beginning to look carefully at the role and position of the Holy See at the United Nations. Supporters of The "See Change" Campaign, including hundreds of organizations from 80 countries and tens of thousands of individuals, believe that the Holy See, the government of the Roman Catholic church, should participate in the UN in the same way as the world’s other religions do-as a non-governmental organization. PeterT
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Response:
The Catholic Church at the United Nations: Church or State? Guest article by David Nolan The Vatican at the United Nations Around the world increasing scrutiny is being paid to the role the Vatican plays at the United Nations. While the Holy See-as it is called in diplomatic circles-does a lot of good work at the UN, when it comes to women’s rights, gay rights, reproductive rights and preventing the spread of AIDS, the Vatican falls back on religious dogma to oppose even the most basic proposals: When women were raped during the conflict in Bosnia, the Vatican used its position at the UN to condemn the provision of emergency contraception. Even though millions in Africa are infected with HIV/AIDS, the Vatican uses its position at the UN to block approval of condoms and safer sex initiatives. Some members of the church hierarchy even tell people that condoms cause AIDS. While women in Latin America die from pregnancy-related complications, the Vatican opposes even the mention of safe abortion, as well as emergency contraception. About The "See Change" Campaign In November, three Dutch parliamentarians applauded The "See Change" Campaign-the international effort to open a review of the "state" status of the Catholic church at the United Nations. Days later, a senior Italian member of parliament followed suit, as did two Belgian Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). Why would politicians, non-governmental organizations and human rights groups voice concern about a seemingly benign power at the United Nations? The Dutch deputies Lousewies van der Laan, Elly Plooij van Goorsel and Joke Swiebel issued a statement arguing that the Vatican’s privileged position at the UN forces the organization into serious policy compromises on women and youth. "The consequences of these concessions are especially visible in poor countries where thousands of women die as a result of illegal abortions, and millions are contaminated by the AIDS virus," they said. In Italy, Marco Pannella, a co-founder of the Radical Party, called for the Vatican’s status as a separate country to be abolished. Pannella argued that the Vatican was "using the holy water sprinkler to bless the baton … against science, conscience, democracy and tolerance, if not worse: against the lives of millions of people." Meanwhile, Bart Staes and Kathleen Van Brempt in Belgium issued their own statement in favor of the campaign. These comments are part of a quietly growing campaign in which people from every part of the world are beginning to look carefully at the role and position of the Holy See at the United Nations. Supporters of The "See Change" Campaign, including hundreds of organizations from 80 countries and tens of thousands of individuals, believe that the Holy See, the government of the Roman Catholic church, should participate in the UN in the same way as the world’s other religions do-as a non-governmental organization. PeterT
Response:
<snip Please don’t feed the troll. In XC, Bari Stepanovich IC XC –+– "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." NI KA
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Catholic Church at the United Nations: Church or State? Guest article by David Nolan The Vatican at the United Nations Around the world increasing scrutiny is being paid to the role the Vatican plays at the United Nations. While the Holy See-as it is called in diplomatic circles-does a lot of good work at the UN, when it comes to women’s rights, gay rights, reproductive rights and preventing the spread of AIDS, the Vatican falls back on religious dogma to oppose even the most basic proposals: When women were raped during the conflict in Bosnia, the Vatican used its position at the UN to condemn the provision of emergency contraception. Even though millions in Africa are infected with HIV/AIDS, the Vatican uses its position at the UN to block approval of condoms and safer sex initiatives. Some members of the church hierarchy even tell people that condoms cause AIDS. While women in Latin America die from pregnancy-related complications, the Vatican opposes even the mention of safe abortion, as well as emergency contraception. About The "See Change" Campaign In November, three Dutch parliamentarians applauded The "See Change" Campaign-the international effort to open a review of the "state" status of the Catholic church at the United Nations. Days later, a senior Italian member of parliament followed suit, as did two Belgian Members of the European Parliament (MEPs). Why would politicians, non-governmental organizations and human rights groups voice concern about a seemingly benign power at the United Nations? The Dutch deputies Lousewies van der Laan, Elly Plooij van Goorsel and Joke Swiebel issued a statement arguing that the Vatican’s privileged position at the UN forces the organization into serious policy compromises on women and youth. "The consequences of these concessions are especially visible in poor countries where thousands of women die as a result of illegal abortions, and millions are contaminated by the AIDS virus," they said. In Italy, Marco Pannella, a co-founder of the Radical Party, called for the Vatican’s status as a separate country to be abolished. Pannella argued that the Vatican was "using the holy water sprinkler to bless the baton … against science, conscience, democracy and tolerance, if not worse: against the lives of millions of people." Meanwhile, Bart Staes and Kathleen Van Brempt in Belgium issued their own statement in favor of the campaign. These comments are part of a quietly growing campaign in which people from every part of the world are beginning to look carefully at the role and position of the Holy See at the United Nations. Supporters of The "See Change" Campaign, including hundreds of organizations from 80 countries and tens of thousands of individuals, believe that the Holy See, the government of the Roman Catholic church, should participate in the UN in the same way as the world’s other religions do-as a non-governmental organization. PeterT
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