Question:
+ It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question.
Response:
JMJ + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass?
Yes at least in our parish here in the Diocese of Orange. The only difference is that the excess Blood of Our Lord is consumed by the priest who says the Mass during the weekly Mass, and by the priest and the EM’s on Sundays. We never have that much left over so its never a problem. Jim Carew sfo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -+ This is a serious question.
Response:
+ It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question.
Yes. But, at least in my Church, I know if it’s a full cup, it frequently has been consumed by more than one minister, or and/or others. My mother is a LEM and had a few words with some of the Ushers who felt they should finish it off when they come up. Since they come last. She spoke with them politely, and explained that it was her commission, but if she needs their help because there is a large quantity, she will so indicate as they approach. Knowing you’re here in the Dayton area Patrick, I’ll mention this as well. As of the last time I was there, Bergamo doesn’t have left over hosts. They are consumed by the LEMs/Priest as well. They don’t use the standard hosts either. Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com With Seven Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Response:
"Will Nordmeyer wrote As of the last time I was there, Bergamo doesn’t have left over hosts. They are consumed by the LEMs/Priest as well. They don’t use the standard hosts either.
+ I didn’t know that. + Interesting. + I belong to St Luke’s Parish
Response:
"PBarker" wrote + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question.
+ Thank you to all who gave me serious answers. + Including those who e-mailed me privately.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JMJ + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? Yes at least in our parish here in the Diocese of Orange. The only difference is that the excess Blood of Our Lord is consumed by the priest who says the Mass during the weekly Mass, and by the priest and the EM’s on Sundays. We never have that much left over so its never a problem.
St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species.
Response:
My God this wafer worship carry on becomes more disgusting by the day. Will, I’m not surprised that your mother is a Lem, can’t get enough of the red stuff, eh?
What wafer worship? Nobody here worships wafers? My mother is Catholic. What’s a Lem? A slur for what race/religion/etc Peter? Man, for someone who claiims to follow the true Christ, you throw a fair amount of racial slurs around. What red stuff? Marinara? Spaghetti Sauce? Ketchup? This blood cult variation of ritual never ceases to amaze me. I mean if the officiating priest want’s to gorge himself on the left over blood in the CUP then surely that’s up to him..For all you know he may even be a vampire and be partial to bit of extra blood.
What blood cult variation? OOHHHH… you mean those of us who follow Christ’s INSTRUCTIONS – Luke 22:19. A verse where you deny the very words of Christ. Facts remain no matter how you choose to glorify what is essentially satanism, at the end of the day what was basically a sharing of a meal has been paganised to fit in with older primitive rituals.
Nope… Your ignorance abounds. We follow the instructions of Christ. Maybe you should quit denying His words and start following Hiim. Now I understand why Mithriacs and the early Roman Church practiced these abhorrent rituals in SECRETE.
Early Christianity practiced it’s faith in secret because the pagan Roman Empire killed Christians for being Christians. THAT’s why it was secret. But you have no comprehension of history… probably related to your lack of reading comprehension. "Then I saw a woman sitting on a red beast that had names insulting to God scarlet, and covered with gold ornaments, precious stones and pearls. In her hand she held a gold CUP full of FILTHY and OBSCENE things, the result of her immorality. On her forehead was written a name that has a secrete meaning: ‘ Great Babylon the mother of all prostitutes and perverts in the world.’ And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s people and the blood of those who were killed because they had been loyal to Jesus." Revelations 17: 3-6. Indeed the above is an accurate account of the Roman Catholic Church; it’s exorbitant wealth, it’s barbaric history, it’s satanic ritual of the Eucharist and the source of it’s traditions…paganism!!
Actually, the verse in revelation that is an accurate account of the Roman Catholic Church, and Christianity is, Revelation 12. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PeterT + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question. Yes. But, at least in my Church, I know if it’s a full cup, it frequently has been consumed by more than one minister, or and/or others. My mother is a LEM and had a few words with some of the Ushers who felt they should finish it off when they come up. Since they come last. She spoke with them politely, and explained that it was her commission, but if she needs their help because there is a large quantity, she will so indicate as they approach. Knowing you’re here in the Dayton area Patrick, I’ll mention this as well. As of the last time I was there, Bergamo doesn’t have left over hosts. They are consumed by the LEMs/Priest as well. They don’t use the standard hosts either.
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Response:
JMJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? Yes at least in our parish here in the Diocese of Orange. The only difference is that the excess Blood of Our Lord is consumed by the priest who says the Mass during the weekly Mass, and by the priest and the EM’s on Sundays. We never have that much left over so its never a problem. St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species.
St Pius the V, & St Philip Benizi do, and I think Mission San Juan Capistrano does. Jim Carew sfo
Response:
"Stephanie Rendino" < wrote … St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species.
+ Isn’t that interesting! + In Singapore, the priest would offer the host dipped in the chalice. + Our parish priest says that isn’t allowed here.
Response:
"Stephanie Rendino" < wrote … St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species. + Isn’t that interesting! + In Singapore, the priest would offer the host dipped in the chalice. + Our parish priest says that isn’t allowed here.
Not even for the sick? When ill in hospital the host was dipped and wiped across my lips. — Alan Ferris eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211 EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div. When the only colour is black – the only sound the broken bell THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan www.arcerland.com ICQ UIN: 12811297
Response:
"Stephanie Rendino" < wrote … St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species. + Isn’t that interesting! + In Singapore, the priest would offer the host dipped in the chalice. + Our parish priest says that isn’t allowed here.
AFAIK, intinction *by the priest* is permitted. Intinction by the person receiving communion is not. However your local bishop may have forbidden the practice in your diocese; this is a bishop’s perogative.
Response:
Early Christianity practiced it’s faith in secret because the pagan Roman Empire killed Christians for being Christians. THAT’s why it was secret. But you have no comprehension of history… probably related to your lack of reading comprehension.
My understanding of history is that the persecutions by the Romans has been overstated to hell for obvious reasons. Constantine killed more Christians than died at the hands of the Romans because their interpretation of the bible differed to his. Such was the intensity against heretics, mostly targeting Christians who did not adhere to the Roman Church. I guess that’s why the church canonised the tyrant given that he had done their dirty work for them. The mass was only developed as a sacrifice around the eleventh century and transubstantiation was defined by Innocent lll AD 1215. It was not universally practiced as a public ritual, it was SECRETE…Go figure dude! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Then I saw a woman sitting on a red beast that had names insulting to God and scarlet, and covered with gold ornaments, precious stones and pearls. In her hand she held a gold CUP full of FILTHY and OBSCENE things, the result of her immorality. On her forehead was written a name that has a secrete meaning: ‘ Great Babylon the mother of all prostitutes and perverts in the world.’ And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s people and the blood of those who were killed because they had been loyal to Jesus." Revelations 17: 3-6. Indeed the above is an accurate account of the Roman Catholic Church; it’s exorbitant wealth, it’s barbaric history, it’s satanic ritual of the Eucharist and the source of it’s traditions…paganism!! Actually, the verse in revelation that is an accurate account of the Roman Catholic Church, and Christianity is, Revelation 12.
Yes I agree. Reve.12:7-9. "Then war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels faught against the dragon ( Roman Church) who faught back with his angels; but the dragon was defeated, and he and his angels were not allowed to stay in heaven any longer. The huge dragon was thrown out- that ancient serpent called the devil or satan (or the RC), that deceived the whole world. He was thrown down to earth, and his angels with him." Rather revealing the relationship has the catholic church with dragon mytholgy and art. http://www.biblelight.net/dragon.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PeterT + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question. Yes. But, at least in my Church, I know if it’s a full cup, it frequently has been consumed by more than one minister, or and/or others. My mother is a LEM and had a few words with some of the Ushers who felt they should finish it off when they come up. Since they come last. She spoke with them politely, and explained that it was her commission, but if she needs their help because there is a large quantity, she will so indicate as they approach. Knowing you’re here in the Dayton area Patrick, I’ll mention this as well. As of the last time I was there, Bergamo doesn’t have left over hosts. They are consumed by the LEMs/Priest as well. They don’t use the standard hosts either. Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 –
http://www.uncensored-news.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With Seven Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Response:
Good to the last drop. I’m last in line. It’s a privilege. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – + It has been a few years since I was a LEM. Our parish is now asking for new people to train for this ministry. I have a question about after communion. In North Carolina, the LEM’s job was to finish drinking the wine (Blood) if there was any left over. Sometimes it could be nearly a cup. + I know where the hosts go. + Is the wine normally totally consumed during mass? + This is a serious question.
Response:
"Alan Ferris" wrote … "Stephanie Rendino" < wrote … St. Barbara’s just doesn’t offer communion under both species. + Isn’t that interesting! + In Singapore, the priest would offer the host dipped in the chalice. + Our parish priest says that isn’t allowed here. Not even for the sick? When ill in hospital the host was dipped and wiped across my lips.
+ Our Lay Eucharistic Ministers only take the Hosts with them to hospitals. I’ve never seen or been offered both while in the hospital.
Response:
"Stephanie Rendino" wrote AFAIK, intinction *by the priest* is permitted. Intinction by the person receiving communion is not. However your local bishop may have forbidden the practice in your diocese; this is a bishop’s perogative.
+ I believe that is the case here in our diocese. + I asked our pastor once and he indicated it wasn’t allowed here.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Early Christianity practiced it’s faith in secret because the pagan Roman Empire killed Christians for being Christians. THAT’s why it was secret. But you have no comprehension of history… probably related to your lack of reading comprehension. My understanding of history is that the persecutions by the Romans has been overstated to hell for obvious reasons. Constantine killed more Christians than died at the hands of the Romans because their interpretation of the bible differed to his.
But Constantine was a Roman… killing christians…. so it still goes in the Roman Persecution column… Nice try Peter. Such was the intensity against heretics, mostly targeting Christians who did not adhere to the Roman Church. I guess that’s why the church canonised the tyrant given that he had done their dirty work for them.
When exactly was Constantine canonized Peter? The Catholic Encyclopedia, from 1913, doesn’t list him as a saint. Also doesn’t identify him as being canonized. Looks like your UNDERSTANDING of history is somewhat lacking. There are 4 Saint Constantines… One was a 6th century monk. http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc67.htm CONSTANTINE Also known as Constantian Memoria 2 December Profile and served as abbot of Javron Abbey. Died 570 of natural causes http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc.htm#constantine.ii CONSTANTINE II Memorial 11 March Profile Scottish prince, son of King Kenneth II. Martyr. Died murdered in 874 in a cave near Crail by Danish invaders; considered a martyr in Scotland for defending his Christian land against pagan invaders CONSTANTINE of Carthage Memorial 11 March Profile CONSTANTINE of Cornwall Memorial 11 March Profile Cornish prince, son of King Paternus. After a misspent youth, he did penance in Wales and Ireland, then evangelized the Scottish Picts with Saint Columbanus, for which he is especially honoured in Scotland. Two locations in Cornwall named for him. Martyr. Died murdered in 598 by pirates Rest snipped because it’s clear that Peter doesn’t understand Catholicism or History. Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com With Seven Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Response:
When exactly was Constantine canonized Peter? The Catholic Encyclopedia, from 1913, doesn’t list him as a saint. Also doesn’t identify him as being canonized.
Well if my source be wrong then be sure to let us both know so that WE can make the appropriate correction. You will also need to advise the Orthodox who also have him canonized a Saint. http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html Looks like your UNDERSTANDING of history is somewhat lacking.
Yabida yabida http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html sniped Wills dilemma and ignorance of his own saints. Rather appropriate that a killer and tyrant from the catholic tradition should be made a saint….<me thinks to myself….eh dude? HEY am still waiting for you to concede on the TRINITY error!! PeterT
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When exactly was Constantine canonized Peter? The Catholic Encyclopedia, from 1913, doesn’t list him as a saint. Also doesn’t identify him as being canonized. Well if my source be wrong then be sure to let us both know so that WE can make the appropriate correction. You will also need to advise the Orthodox who also have him canonized a Saint. http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html Looks like your UNDERSTANDING of history is somewhat lacking. Yabida yabida http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html sniped Wills dilemma and ignorance of his own saints. Rather appropriate that a killer and tyrant from the catholic tradition should be made a saint….<me thinks to myself….eh dude?
That’s interesting… I wonder why the sites I went to didn’t list Constantine the great. It also was a list of saints. HEY am still waiting for you to concede on the TRINITY error!!
Nope… can’t do it… because it’s not an error… it’s Scriptural. I’m not gonna deny the words of Christ. You should stop doing it too. PeterT
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Response:
It has been muted for quite some time that the a.r.c.r.c NG has been infiltrated by catholic neo Nazi whose hidden agendas are to promote religious imperialism with strong racially superior overtones. You don’t have to wear an SS uniform to be a Nazi or a white supremacist, you only need to proclaim such as cultural and religious superiority by insisting that black African village traditions should be replaced with cucasian catholic culture. I have on more than a few occasions been asked by a some posters as to why I have continued badgering Will if he is a neo-Nazi. Allow me to explain. This initial conversation which generated my suspicions was all about a discussion concerning Aids in Africa which touched on topics such as, the pope condemning of condoms causing aids, promiscuity as an endemic reality to African culture, Wills insistence that immorality among ALL African was the prime reason why aids continued to spread so vehemently and Wills insistence that African Village life (i.e.Historic African cultural traditions) be changed to Catholic culture (even though he denied saying this till I posted the evidence which refuted his denials) as being his view of the basis by which aids in Africa could be halted. That is the final solution according to Will in not as many words: they are black!! they are immoral!! and they have to change their culture to suit Catholicism!!..Spare me it sounds like something out of medieval papacy or an inquisition, which I suggested at the time it WAS! Put simply in as few words as possible…I said as a reaction to Wills grandstanding on the morality question (even though most Catholics including the religious hierarchy do and have never ever lived up to these ideals), that telling Africans that they are immoral is difficult because promiscuity is such an integral part of African culture and traditions. Will spitting the dummy angrily came back at me with some draconian racist overtone that; well African culture is immoral and thus they will have to change their traditional village life and replace it with CATHOLIC CULTURE. (evidence provided forthwith). Naturally being the kinds of person that I am, I reacted in disbelief at his racist and almost imperial overtones. I could not believe that in this modern age of intellectual honesty and especially from one that say’s he follows Christ, that anyone but a HARDENED RACIST could say such an ignorant and hurtful thing against a third world peoples, not privy to our education and monetary advantage. To my thinking his off the cuff opinion simply exposed a deeper side of this person as I will demonstrate. Given that the issue here was whether a cultural promiscuous African village people can live up to a religious based Roman catholic standard of morality that even Catholics never ever live up to. Will, the clear patterns within your racist based response are NO different to what one would expect from Adolph Hitler or some White supremacist group. This is what you said in the very FIRST statement on the issue on the 12-7-01…not the postings you have been deceiving the group with you made after backtracking from this original statement, much LATER. (((If we want to help these people, we also need to teach them that they can live in *1 of 2 cultures – Either the *Catholic culture that does notcondone, promote, etc. that lifestyle, or the culture of the village,etc. which does. *There is a clear disconnect between those cultures… *I don’t mean to be stigmatizing them…just pointing out that the Pope is not to blame for the actions. *the cases you rightly pointed out where it is culturally wrong for the woman to not consent to sex, etc. *That is NOT a Catholic culture. They are not living a Catholic lifestyle, so blaming Catholicism & the Pope for the spread of AIDs is an incorrect conclusion.))) ((( KEY phrases.. * 1 of 2 cultures, * Catholic culture does not condone that lifestyle or the culture of the village etc. * There is a clear distinction between those cultures. * That is not Catholic culture. *They are NOT living catholic lifestyle. * I do not mean stigmatising them))) Wills underlying attitude is endemic to the beliefs promoted by Adolph Hitler and right winged KKK white supremacy groups!! ** Adolph Hitler said: All human culture, all the result of art, science of technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the product of the Aryan. The very facts admits of the not founded inference that he alone was the founder of all higher humanity, therefore representing prototype all of that we understand of the word man. (Mein Kamphf, 290) ** Will Vordm..said: Either the catholic culture that does not condone, promote etc, that lifestyle, or the culture of the village….There is a clear distinction between those cultures….( Yes Will as you are clearly saying that there is a distinction between immoral black African village traditions and white catholic culture..right??) ** Adolph Hitler said: We do NOT JUDGE by merely artistic or military standards or even by scientific ones. We judge by SPIRITUAL ENERGY which a people are capable of putting forth. ( Edouard Caloc. Secrete conversations with Hitler, 68.) ** Will Vordm said: I do not mean to be stigmatising them..That is not catholic culture..They are not living catholic lifestyles. ( One thing indicative about racists and what I found in most neo Nazi or white supremacist sites is that while they ALL claim not be to judging people, they do SO by some hidden doctrinal or spiritual religious supremacy. You are no different Will.) ** Knights of the KKK say: We are promoters of white Christian civilisation…These cherished and essential engrediances to a civilised and moral society.. ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those two cultures. Catholic that does not promote, condone etc that lifestyle or culture of the village…that is not catholic culture…they are not living catholic lifestyle. ( How can you judge the whole of African culture as some kind of immoral cespit that does not match catholic ideals. Don’t you know anything about the history of your perverted Roman religion.) ** Knights of the KKK say: When we give honour to these ideals we give honour to our ancestors and our white Christian culture. ** Will Vordm says: this is not catholic culture….they are not living catholic culture. ** Adolph Hitler said: Since the blood (soul) and the Aryans contained specific energies, the "cultural energies" or "racial elements". ( Mein Khampf, 394) ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those cultures..they can live in one or two cultures…either the Catholic culture or the culture of the village! This is not catholic culture. (It’ really not about the distinction between immoral Africans and catholic ideology is it Will..It’s the fact that they are black and your using religion to hide your prejudices.) ** Adolph Hitler said: TWO worlds face each other. men of God or men of Satan. ( Rauschning, Hitler speaks, 238.) Will Vordm says: We also need to teach them that they can live in 1 or 2 cultures. either catholic….or village lifestyle. ( This statement is quite unbelievable and even by itself leaves you standing naked…a german american racist???) Furthermore..I invite you to measure Wills statement below with what I have illustrated above. I’m not judging their morality – their culture teaches one thing. By my standards, they are wrong, yes. BUT, they are not living by my standards. They are living by their cultural standards that they have had for generations. The Catholic Church came to teach them… … If they choose to embrace those teachings, then they will see, that by the Bible, some of their cultural traditions are wrong. If they choose to not embrace those teachings, then they will continue. I’m not saying that they are immoral…. Apologise Will, because no amount of diversion will make this GO AWAY! SHOULD ANYONE WANT THE FULL POSTS WITH HEADERS CONCERNING ANY OF THE ABOVE I WOULD BE MOST HAPPY TO E-MAIL THEM TO YOU.) PeterT
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When exactly was Constantine canonized Peter? The Catholic Encyclopedia, from 1913, doesn’t list him as a saint. Also doesn’t identify him as being canonized. Well if my source be wrong then be sure to let us both know so that WE can make the appropriate correction. You will also need to advise the Orthodox who also have him canonized a Saint. http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html Looks like your UNDERSTANDING of history is somewhat lacking. Yabida yabida http://saints.catholic.org/saints/constantinethegreat.html sniped Wills dilemma and ignorance of his own saints. Rather appropriate that a killer and tyrant from the catholic tradition should be made a saint….<me thinks to myself….eh dude? That’s interesting… I wonder why the sites I went to didn’t list Constantine the great. It also was a list of saints. HEY am still waiting for you to concede on the TRINITY error!! Nope… can’t do it… because it’s not an error… it’s Scriptural. I’m not gonna deny the words of Christ.
… read more »
Response:
Snipped Peter wanting to start this debate over… because he lost it the other times, so he wants to try again…This time he extensively quotes Hitler & the KKK, but to no avail… Here’s the message IDs in question… He tried this debate and lost badly… here’s the data… Here’s the thread http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&threadm=3b9a9fee%40new… us.com.au&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:alt.religion.christian.roman-cath o en%26safe%3Doff%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D29%26as_minm%3D8%26as_miny%3D2001 % 26as_maxd%3D8%26as_maxm%3D9%26as_maxy%3D2001%26rnum%3D1%26selm%3D3b9a9fee%2 5 40news.iprimus.com.au And here Here’s the thread… http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&threadm=3b97f2bf%40new… us.com.au&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:alt.religion.christian.roman-cath o en%26safe%3Doff%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D29%26as_minm%3D8%26as_miny%3D2001 % 26as_maxd%3D8%26as_maxm%3D9%26as_maxy%3D2001%26rnum%3D4%26selm%3D3b97f2bf%2 5 40news.iprimus.com.au And here http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&threadm=3b9a992f%40new… us.com.au&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:alt.religion.christian.roman-cath o en%26safe%3Doff%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D29%26as_minm%3D8%26as_miny%3D2001 % 26as_maxd%3D8%26as_maxm%3D9%26as_maxy%3D2001%26rnum%3D2%26selm%3D3b9a992f%2 5 40news.iprimus.com.au And twisted it a bit, but started it here too. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&threadm=3b9a97b0%40new… us.com.au&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:alt.religion.christian.roman-cath o en%26safe%3Doff%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D29%26as_minm%3D8%26as_miny%3D2001 % 26as_maxd%3D8%26as_maxm%3D9%26as_maxy%3D2001%26rnum%3D3%26selm%3D3b9a97b0%2 5 40news.iprimus.com.au Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com With Seven Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Response:
Snipped Peter wanting to start this debate over
It has been muted for quite some time that the a.r.c.r.c NG has been infiltrated by catholic neo Nazi whose hidden agendas are to promote religious imperialism with strong racially superior overtones. You don’t have to wear an SS uniform to be a Nazi or a white supremacist, you only need to proclaim such as cultural and religious superiority by insisting that black African village traditions should be replaced with cucasian catholic culture. I have on more than a few occasions been asked by a some posters as to why I have continued badgering Will if he is a neo-Nazi. Allow me to explain. This initial conversation which generated my suspicions was all about a discussion concerning Aids in Africa which touched on topics such as, the pope condemning of condoms causing aids, promiscuity as an endemic reality to African culture, Wills insistence that immorality among ALL African was the prime reason why aids continued to spread so vehemently and Wills insistence that African Village life (i.e.Historic African cultural traditions) be changed to Catholic culture (even though he denied saying this till I posted the evidence which refuted his denials) as being his view of the basis by which aids in Africa could be halted. That is the final solution according to Will in not as many words: they are black!! they are immoral!! and they have to change their culture to suit Catholicism!!..Spare me it sounds like something out of medieval papacy or an inquisition, which I suggested at the time it WAS! Put simply in as few words as possible…I said as a reaction to Wills grandstanding on the morality question (even though most Catholics including the religious hierarchy do and have never ever lived up to these ideals), that telling Africans that they are immoral is difficult because promiscuity is such an integral part of African culture and traditions. Will spitting the dummy angrily came back at me with some draconian racist overtone that; well African culture is immoral and thus they will have to change their traditional village life and replace it with CATHOLIC CULTURE. (evidence provided forthwith). Naturally being the kinds of person that I am, I reacted in disbelief at his racist and almost imperial overtones. I could not believe that in this modern age of intellectual honesty and especially from one that say’s he follows Christ, that anyone but a HARDENED RACIST could say such an ignorant and hurtful thing against a third world peoples, not privy to our education and monetary advantage. To my thinking his off the cuff opinion simply exposed a deeper side of this person as I will demonstrate. Given that the issue here was whether a cultural promiscuous African village people can live up to a religious based Roman catholic standard of morality that even Catholics never ever live up to. Will, the clear patterns within your racist based response are NO different to what one would expect from Adolph Hitler or some White supremacist group. This is what you said in the very FIRST statement on the issue on the 12-7-01…not the postings you have been deceiving the group with you made after backtracking from this original statement, much LATER. (((If we want to help these people, we also need to teach them that they can live in *1 of 2 cultures – Either the *Catholic culture that does notcondone, promote, etc. that lifestyle, or the culture of the village,etc. which does. *There is a clear disconnect between those cultures… *I don’t mean to be stigmatizing them…just pointing out that the Pope is not to blame for the actions. *the cases you rightly pointed out where it is culturally wrong for the woman to not consent to sex, etc. *That is NOT a Catholic culture. They are not living a Catholic lifestyle, so blaming Catholicism & the Pope for the spread of AIDs is an incorrect conclusion.))) ((( KEY phrases.. * 1 of 2 cultures, * Catholic culture does not condone that lifestyle or the culture of the village etc. * There is a clear distinction between those cultures. * That is not Catholic culture. *They are NOT living catholic lifestyle. * I do not mean stigmatising them))) Wills underlying attitude is endemic to the beliefs promoted by Adolph Hitler and right winged KKK white supremacy groups!! ** Adolph Hitler said: All human culture, all the result of art, science of technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the product of the Aryan. The very facts admits of the not founded inference that he alone was the founder of all higher humanity, therefore representing prototype all of that we understand of the word man. (Mein Kamphf, 290) ** Will Vordm..said: Either the catholic culture that does not condone, promote etc, that lifestyle, or the culture of the village….There is a clear distinction between those cultures….( Yes Will as you are clearly saying that there is a distinction between immoral black African village traditions and white catholic culture..right??) ** Adolph Hitler said: We do NOT JUDGE by merely artistic or military standards or even by scientific ones. We judge by SPIRITUAL ENERGY which a people are capable of putting forth. ( Edouard Caloc. Secrete conversations with Hitler, 68.) ** Will Vordm said: I do not mean to be stigmatising them..That is not catholic culture..They are not living catholic lifestyles. ( One thing indicative about racists and what I found in most neo Nazi or white supremacist sites is that while they ALL claim not be to judging people, they do SO by some hidden doctrinal or spiritual religious supremacy. You are no different Will.) ** Knights of the KKK say: We are promoters of white Christian civilisation…These cherished and essential engrediances to a civilised and moral society.. ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those two cultures. Catholic that does not promote, condone etc that lifestyle or culture of the village…that is not catholic culture…they are not living catholic lifestyle. ( How can you judge the whole of African culture as some kind of immoral cespit that does not match catholic ideals. Don’t you know anything about the history of your perverted Roman religion.) ** Knights of the KKK say: When we give honour to these ideals we give honour to our ancestors and our white Christian culture. ** Will Vordm says: this is not catholic culture….they are not living catholic culture. ** Adolph Hitler said: Since the blood (soul) and the Aryans contained specific energies, the "cultural energies" or "racial elements". ( Mein Khampf, 394) ** Will Vordm says: There is a clear distinction between those cultures..they can live in one or two cultures…either the Catholic culture or the culture of the village! This is not catholic culture. (It’ really not about the distinction between immoral Africans and catholic ideology is it Will..It’s the fact that they are black and your using religion to hide your prejudices.) ** Adolph Hitler said: TWO worlds face each other. men of God or men of Satan. ( Rauschning, Hitler speaks, 238.) Will Vordm says: We also need to teach them that they can live in 1 or 2 cultures. either catholic….or village lifestyle. ( This statement is quite unbelievable and even by itself leaves you standing naked…a german american racist???) Furthermore..I invite you to measure Wills statement below with what I have illustrated above. I’m not judging their morality – their culture teaches one thing. By my standards, they are wrong, yes. BUT, they are not living by my standards. They are living by their cultural standards that they have had for generations. The Catholic Church came to teach them… … If they choose to embrace those teachings, then they will see, that by the Bible, some of their cultural traditions are wrong. If they choose to not embrace those teachings, then they will continue. I’m not saying that they are immoral…. Apologise Will, because no amount of diversion will make this GO AWAY! SHOULD ANYONE WANT THE FULL POSTS WITH HEADERS CONCERNING ANY OF THE ABOVE I WOULD BE MOST HAPPY TO E-MAIL THEM TO YOU.) You’ve become very pathetic in your denials my friend, given the mountain of evidence where you have proven yourself to be no more than a liar, a redneck and most probably even a neo Nazi. I am not in the least surprised that NO Catholics in here who incidentally would absolutely love to have a slice of me, are NOT cuing up to defend you. Neither would I given the evidence against you. It has been muted for years that neo Nazis have infiltrated a.r.c.r.c and a simple scan down the line of headers is all it takes to see that the joint is brimming with anti- Semitics and racists. What you categorically advocated concerning your solution to aids in Africa, that is; the replacement of ‘African village traditions’ that go back thousands of years with ‘Roman Catholic culture’, (to quote you), is indicative to the exact sentiments that Adolph Hitler and various historical Catholic popes also advocated as a solution for the Jews. Only a brief scan through various neo Nazi sites on the Internet reveals that they too share YOUR sentiments and feelings on racial and cultural superiority. If you would like me to show you specifics from Mien Kamphf and KKK affiliated sites to prove my point I would be most happy to do so. What prompted my suspicions that you may have been a racist or anti Semite was the hysterical and verging on fanatical way you insisted that the CC had absolutely NO case to answer concerning it’s involvement in Hitler’s war…calling everyone who added voice or evidence LIARS. I … read more »
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