Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . Then their is the money stolen from the Jews of Yugoslavia that ended up in the Vatican bank through Swiss accounts. But do not forget Yossele Schumacher the church refused to give back to his family hidden if a long list of churches and monasteries in France. The Vatican Bank laundered the proceeds of genocide by the Croatian Nazis, mainly plunder from 500,000 murdered Serbs. The Vatican Bank also accepted victim gold from the Reichbank but the Jewish organizations are sitting on that information, afraid of an anti Jewish backlash. www.vaticanbankclaims.com
Nearly as bad as modern Israel being a centre for illegal money laundrering isnt it? Tull
Response:
In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic & soc.culture.jewish Vatican isn’t "hiding" anything. Horse hockey. They are, by their own admission, hiding the contents of their archives. I think, given the other evidence, it’s fairly easy to guess why. The only question really is how long they’ll stonewall.
As long as you’re bringing up Stonewall, let’s not forget that it was Ernest Roehm and his homosexual organization, the S.A., that put Hitler into power. | | | POME | I’m entitled to do a little boasting You’ve all heard of alt.support.crossposting It was I who created that wonderful group I’m the King of crossposters, and that’s no poop! Grand Duke of Yugoslobia Duke of Vulgaria Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem & Elector of Homophobia
Response:
People believe what they want to believe. Specially when it is anti-Catholic propaganda. — Ad Jesum per Mariam, Carlque "I never spared heretics and have always done my utmost so that the enemies of the Church should also be my enemies." St. Jerome, 420 AD. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you knew pope pius 12, you too would convert to Catholicism with the chief rabbi of ROME, ISRAEL ZOLLI AND SING HIM PRAISES WITH GOLDA MYIER. YOU, SOUND NAIVE AND LIED TO. A very gentle essay on the subject, quite amply footnoted, is available at http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html . I think that the defenders of Pius should read it, but I doubt that they will.
Response:
People believe what they want to believe. Specially when it is anti-Catholic propaganda. —
You can call it that if you’d like — you can, if you’d like, make up anything you want — but see http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html , and note the reaction of the commission that the Vatican itself appointed to, presumably, clear its reputation of some very serious charges. This isn’t some anti-Catholic fringe group that’s been critical of the Vatican’s stonewalling — it’s the "International Jewish Catholic-Jewish Historical Commission" a commission of six scholars that the Vatican chose to investigate, and it’s the same commission that decided that it couldn’t proceed until the Vatican came clean.
Response:
"Joel Rosenberg" wrote — but see http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html , and note the reaction of the commission that the Vatican itself appointed to, presumably, clear its reputation of some very serious charges.
+ OK, I read the piece. + It is a one-sided story, meant to discredit Pius XII. + It whines that Pius XII did not speak against "Kristalnacht" in Nov 1938. + However, Pius XII was not even pope until four months later. + Upon his rise to the papacy, he immediately obtained 3000 visas for European Jews to go to Brazil. + There are many ways to paint history. + This is a bleak impressionist piece o crap.
Response:
. Then their is the money stolen from the Jews of Yugoslavia that ended up in the Vatican bank through Swiss accounts. But do not forget Yossele Schumacher the church refused to give back to his family hidden if a long list of churches and monasteries in France.
The Vatican Bank laundered the proceeds of genocide by the Croatian Nazis, mainly plunder from 500,000 murdered Serbs. The Vatican Bank also accepted victim gold from the Reichbank but the Jewish organizations are sitting on that information, afraid of an anti Jewish backlash. www.vaticanbankclaims.com
Response:
"Joel Rosenberg" wrote — but see http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html , and note the reaction of the commission that the Vatican itself appointed to, presumably, clear its reputation of some very serious charges. + OK, I read the piece. + It is a one-sided story, meant to discredit Pius XII.
As anybody who looked at it could see, it is hardly "one-sided." One quick quote: "Privately, he sheltered a small number of Jews and spoke to a few select officials, encouraging them to help the Jews." + It whines that Pius XII did not speak against "Kristalnacht" in Nov 1938. + However, Pius XII was not even pope until four months later.
And what was his position at the time of Kristalnacht? + Upon his rise to the papacy, he immediately obtained 3000 visas for European Jews to go to Brazil.
Again, this is something that you could easily have learned from this supposed "one-sided story, meant to discredit Pius." What you also should have learned from this are some things rather more discrediting: "In the spring of 1940, the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Isaac Herzog, asked the papal Secretary of State, Cardinal Luigi Maglione to intercede to keep Jews in Spain from being deported to Germany. He later made a similar request for Jews in Lithuania. The papacy did nothing. "Within the Pope’s own church, Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna told Pius XII about Jewish deportations in 1941. In 1942, the Slovakian charge d’affaires, a position under the supervision of the Pope, reported to Rome that Slovakian Jews were being systematically deported and sent to death camps. "In October 1941, the Assistant Chief of the U.S. delegation to the Vatican, Harold Tittman, asked the Pope to condemn the atrocities. The response came that the Holy See wanted to remain "neutral," and that condemning the atrocities would have a negative influence on Catholics in German-held lands.(7) "In late August 1942, after more than 200,000 Ukrainian Jews had been killed, Ukrainian Metropolitan Andrej Septyckyj wrote a long letter to the Pope, referring to the German government as a regime of terror and corruption, more diabolical than that of the Bolsheviks. The Pope replied by quoting verses from Psalms and advising Septyckyj to "bear adversity with serene patience." "On September 18, 1942, Monsignor Giovanni Battista Montini, the future Pope Paul VI, wrote, "The massacres of the Jews reach frightening proportions and forms." Yet, that same month when Myron Taylor, U.S. representative to the Vatican, warned the Pope that his silence was endangering his moral prestige, the Secretary of State responded on the Pope’s behalf that it was impossible to verify rumors about crimes committed against the Jews. Wladislaw Raczkiewicz, president of the Polish government-in-exile, appealed to the Pope in January 1943 to publicly denounce Nazi violence. Bishop Preysing of Berlin did the same, at least twice. Pius XII refused." The article also deals with the excuses given by and on behalf of Pius. Again, I refer you to the article. If you’ve any objection to any of the allegations raised, please feel free to trot them out, and let’s take a look at them.
Response:
JMJ What is the Vatican hiding? Indeed, Pius XII approved the infamous Vatican-Nazi Concordat in July 1933, a treaty that preserved Catholic privileges in Germany in exchange for the Church’s cessation of political activity. Commenting on the accord, Adolf Hitler said at the time that it "gives Germany an opportunity and creates an area of trust which is particularly significant in the developing struggle against international Jewry."
… Regarding the relationship between Pius XII and the Jews. As far as the (accusation of) silence is concerned, we know very well that any public protest against Nazism would have provoked a disaster. Not only against the Catholics but, especially, against the Jews.
I think that argument that shows the level of discomfort that Pius’ apologists have to sink to — that he let the Nazis murder Jews without protest for the sake of the Jews. I mean, sheesh.
Response:
JMJ What is the Vatican hiding? Indeed, Pius XII approved the infamous Vatican-Nazi Concordat in July 1933, a treaty that preserved Catholic privileges in Germany in exchange for the Church’s cessation of political activity. Commenting on the accord, Adolf Hitler said at the time that it "gives Germany an opportunity and creates an area of trust which is particularly significant in the developing struggle against international Jewry."
What about the signing of the Concordant with the Third Reich? What else could have been done to protect the Church in Germany? Refusing to sign the Concordant with the Nazis would have meant abandoning Catholics into the hands of the new (political) power and there would have been no possible line of defense. The Holy See was not na
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