Question:

The following is self explanatory. Anyone wanting to respond should contact James at the e-mail address at the end of his message. Happy New Year all. Our Lady’s Army Our Lady’s Army was founded on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception !!! We are a Marian Apostolate whose sole goal is to bring the Tridentine Mass to every parish in the world through a monthly Rosary of intercession to our Blessed Mother, our Advocate !!! The Army is not affiliated with any other Catholic group !!! All action of O.L.A. will be decided by a unanamous consent of the Board of Advisors comprised of myself as Chief of Staff & a carefully selected mix of Clerical & Lay Roman Catholic Traditionalists !!! Membership is open to any persons who pledge to Pray the Rosary of Intercession once a month !!! To enlist in the Army one only has to notify Headquarters of their state or country, their diocese, their novus ordo parish (hereafter referred to as NO parish) & the number of people who will join in the Rosary with the member !!! Our membership roster is strictly confidential. While we advocate cooperation with &  membership in all worthwhile groups ( as agreed to by the Board of Advisors ) we will never breach our pledge of confidentiality !!! A unique aspect of Our Lady’s Army is that we will never be in competition with any other Traditional group for either members or money. We intend to win their collaboration by our unselfish support of their efforts. O.L.A. will never appeal to it’s members for money, just Rosarys !!! The Army’s motto shall be NUMQUAM SEPARARI (never to be sepatated) !!! In the name of the Blessed virgin, our Advocate, James E. Kramer Chief of Staff Bob Bobic

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our Lady’s Army Our Lady’s Army was founded on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception !!! We are a Marian Apostolate whose sole goal is to bring the Tridentine Mass to every parish in the world through a monthly Rosary of intercession to our Blessed Mother, our Advocate !!! The Army is not affiliated with any other Catholic group !!! All action of O.L.A. will be decided by a unanamous consent of the Board of Advisors comprised of myself as Chief of Staff & a carefully selected mix of Clerical & Lay Roman Catholic Traditionalists !!! Membership is open to any persons who pledge to Pray the Rosary of Intercession once a month !!! To enlist in the Army one only has to notify Headquarters of their state or country, their diocese, their novus ordo parish (hereafter referred to as NO parish) & the number of people who will join in the Rosary with the member !!! Our membership roster is strictly confidential. While we advocate cooperation with &  membership in all worthwhile groups ( as agreed to by the Board of Advisors ) we will never breach our pledge of confidentiality !!! A unique aspect of Our Lady’s Army is that we will never be in competition with any other Traditional group for either members or money. We intend to win their collaboration by our unselfish support of their efforts. O.L.A. will never appeal to it’s members for money, just Rosarys !!! The Army’s motto shall be NUMQUAM SEPARARI (never to be sepatated) !!! In the name of the Blessed virgin, our Advocate, James E. Kramer Chief of Staff Bob Bobic

Sorry pal. When questions come up about people like you in this NG ( the ones who pay homage to mary), you don’t exist. Or the NG catholics classify you as a odd-ball catholic. An absolute minority. So small that most catholics don’t even know you exist. You are supposed to secretly contact them through personal E-Mail or they will be embarrased by your posts.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our Lady’s Army Our Lady’s Army was founded on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception !!! We are a Marian Apostolate whose sole goal is to bring the Tridentine Mass to every parish in the world through a monthly Rosary of intercession to our Blessed Mother, our Advocate !!! The Army is not affiliated with any other Catholic group !!! All action of O.L.A. will be decided by a unanamous consent of the Board of Advisors comprised of myself as Chief of Staff & a carefully selected mix of Clerical & Lay Roman Catholic Traditionalists !!! Membership is open to any persons who pledge to Pray the Rosary of Intercession once a month !!! To enlist in the Army one only has to notify Headquarters of their state or country, their diocese, their novus ordo parish (hereafter referred to as NO parish) & the number of people who will join in the Rosary with the member !!! Our membership roster is strictly confidential. While we advocate cooperation with &  membership in all worthwhile groups ( as agreed to by the Board of Advisors ) we will never breach our pledge of confidentiality !!! A unique aspect of Our Lady’s Army is that we will never be in competition with any other Traditional group for either members or money. We intend to win their collaboration by our unselfish support of their efforts. O.L.A. will never appeal to it’s members for money, just Rosarys !!! The Army’s motto shall be NUMQUAM SEPARARI (never to be sepatated) !!! In the name of the Blessed virgin, our Advocate, James E. Kramer Chief of Staff Bob Bobic Sorry pal. When questions come up about people like you in this NG ( the ones who pay homage to mary), you don’t exist. Or the NG catholics classify you as a odd-ball catholic. An absolute minority. So small that most catholics don’t even know you exist. You are supposed to secretly contact them through personal E-Mail or they will be embarrased by your posts.

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In the name of the Blessed virgin, our Advocate,

The only advocate to the Father is Christ Jesus. ~Gabe

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Question:

This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X-mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. I come from a Roman Catholic background and although I do not practice Chritianity anymore, I find it hard not to exchange gifts with my family. I love them no matter what religion they follow.  I was just wondering if anyone else has done the same.

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There is no SPECIFIC rule about exchanging gifts on Christian Holidays.  There is no real rule forbidding too much, except the Three Fold and the such. Sahmain and the others are Wiccan holidays, but they are the only ones you are forced to follow.  There is a holiday on December 21, celebrating the Winter Solstice,  so the gifts could be for that. Joe Ferraro

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Thank you.  I’m fairly new this, so I wasn’t sure if it was forbidden and such. I’m used to the Roman Catholic ways which state you’re guilty for pretty much anything you do, say or think.

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My family still gives gifts on the xtian christmas, and we do easterbaskets too. When you have little kids it is hard to separate them from the holidays when they are exposed to them so much. I used to live with an Eastern Orthodox family and they required everyone who lived there to keep the Orthodox holidays. Since my family was Protestant, this made for some conflict. (And the BS you had to go through with these people only took the fun out of it if I went anyway.) Once I left I swore I’d never depreive myself of the harmless entertainment and joy of a holiday just because it wasn’t of my religion, because by doing so I was only separating myself from my friends and family. They were all willing to celebrate my holidays, so why not reciprocate. Besides, doesn’t the charge of the Goddess say that "love, laughter and pleasure" are her rituals? BB Wolfman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X-mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. I come from a Roman Catholic background and although I do not practice Chritianity anymore, I find it hard not to exchange gifts with my family. I love them no matter what religion they follow.  I was just wondering if anyone else has done the same.

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I come from a Christian background and most of my husbands family is Christian also, so we celebrate all the Holidays, Jewish & Christian and now will be adding Wiccan. This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X-mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. I come from a Roman Catholic background and although I do not practice Chritianity anymore, I find it hard not to exchange gifts with my family. I love them no matter what religion they follow.  I was just wondering if anyone else has done the same.

– Shoshana the Jewwitch "Much learning does not teach understanding."-      -Heraclitus

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Wolfman: You and I are more one than we think! Another Kindred not afraid to say they do Christmas and Easter for their kids! It is so nice to see that some of us are so sure of who we are as individuals, (witches, wiccans, pagans) that we show our true colors even if it means flames from saying we are not *True* to our craft if we allow the christian aspects any where near our lives! Aine In each of us there is another whom we do not know.   Carl G. Jung Is buaine focal na toice an t-saeghail arw photo page–by Weyland Greywolf http://members.xoom.com/celtic_farm/photo.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My family still gives gifts on the xtian christmas, and we do easterbaskets too. When you have little kids it is hard to separate them from the holidays when they are exposed to them so much. I used to live with an Eastern Orthodox family and they required everyone who lived there to keep the Orthodox holidays. Since my family was Protestant, this made for some conflict. (And the BS you had to go through with these people only took the fun out of it if I went anyway.) Once I left I swore I’d never depreive myself of the harmless entertainment and joy of a holiday just because it wasn’t of my religion, because by doing so I was only separating myself from my friends and family. They were all willing to celebrate my holidays, so why not reciprocate. Besides, doesn’t the charge of the Goddess say that "love, laughter and pleasure" are her rituals? BB

Here too.  I mean we do the Winter Solstice and like what we did years before becoming pagan we just gave the peoples that are celbrating christmas ther gifts when we could get together… kinda like it wasn’t always around Winter Solstice or not…. we just stay up all night unlike our christian friends to call back the sun… Easter is just like  Ostara so why worry about it… Summer Solsitice is just a great idea to cook out for and have fun in the sun time… Samhain  is well Samhain ……  Imbolc and valentines day is so close and so close to each other in ideas why not… gee I like the extra day to tell peoples I love them or to hear myself Thnaksgiving is the one I have a hard time with but here online i have met many native people who told me stories of "Thanksgivings" from the killing of natives…. so I really don’t want to celebrate that but have  a feast with family.. Starlite

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I come from a Christian background and most of my husbands family is Christian also, so we celebrate all the Holidays, Jewish & Christian and now will be adding Wiccan. This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X- mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. I come from a Roman Catholic background and although I do not practice Chritianity anymore, I find it hard not to exchange gifts with my family. I love them no matter what religion they follow.  I was just wondering if anyone else has done the same. — Shoshana the Jewwitch "Much learning does not teach understanding."-     -Heraclitus

because we dont belong to a religion dousnt mean we cant respect their holy days, many jewish people allow christian staff both the jewish and christian holy days. why cant we do the same, I get cards and gifts, from christian friends, and give them christmas cards and gifts back, They send them to me for Yule I send them to them for christmas. Easter is very much a mixed pagan and christian holiday, I still buy chocolate eggs for my very adult children and grandkids, (they love chocolate eggs ) and I still make real eggs boiled in herbs to colour them, and give them to neighbours children to roll down the local hills. they love them to. and that is very much a pagan thing. — The ‘Old Craft’ lady    http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/shez/

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writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X- mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. [snip] Oh, definitely, and I still do! (I even give gifts to other friends who aren’t Christian.) Exchanging gifts on Christmas was a 19th-century invention, anyway–the Puritans outlawed celebrating Christmas because it was celebrated at the time rather the way we celebrate New Year’s Eve today: drinking, debauchery, and public vandalism. Read Stephen Nissenbaum’s "The Battle for Christmas". For me, Christmas as it’s celebrated in my family was always pretty secular. It’s a time to see relatives I hardly ever get to talk to, and it’s an excuse to give things to people. I like giving things to people. Rimrunner ever wonder why santa wears a red suit?

because that rotten  cola company used him in an advertisment with a red suit. he used to be green or white before that, your cola people have a lot to answer for….. — The ‘Old Craft’ lady    http://www.oldcity.demon.co.uk/shez/

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This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X-mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious.

[snip] Oh, definitely, and I still do! (I even give gifts to other friends who aren’t Christian.) Exchanging gifts on Christmas was a 19th-century invention, anyway–the Puritans outlawed celebrating Christmas because it was celebrated at the time rather the way we celebrate New Year’s Eve today: drinking, debauchery, and public vandalism. Read Stephen Nissenbaum’s "The Battle for Christmas". For me, Christmas as it’s celebrated in my family was always pretty secular. It’s a time to see relatives I hardly ever get to talk to, and it’s an excuse to give things to people. I like giving things to people. Rimrunner ever wonder why santa wears a red suit? — Murder of Crows: http://www.nwlink.com/~noah WANT A CD? EMAIL ME! "It is the fact that someone could wind up using the phrase ‘Because I was there, bitch’ in a discussion about a computer that wants more than anything to be friendly and warm and fuzzy that makes me feel that the Internet is the greatest thing ever introduced to human communication." — Jeff Vogel regarding the iMac

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We kind a keep up the tradition because of the kids, but it would be logical to have four gifts a year besides the birthday. Expensive, or divide. BB Etherial – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  The more gift giving side than the religious side.  I’m not talking about going to midnight mass on X-mas eve or anything.  Has anyone exchanged gifts in the past?  Just curious. I come from a Roman Catholic background and although I do not practice Chritianity anymore, I find it hard not to exchange gifts with my family. I love them no matter what religion they follow.  I was just wondering if anyone else has done the same.

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This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?  

I give Solstice gifts to those for whom it is appropriate, Christmas gifts to those for whom it is appropriate, and birthday gifts to those for whom it is appropriate (4 family birthdays between mid December and Twelveth Night) and Santa gifts to those for whom it is appropriate. Thinking about WHY you are giving/not giving gifts may not be a bad idea. What are you celebrating? Can you honor the beliefs of another person and not feel untrue to your own? Are you giving gifts out of love for family and friends on a day of great joy for them, are you celebrating the return of the Sun/Light/Hope to the Winter dark? And if you have chosen/been chosen by a Deity/ies, historically, what was the time of great holidays celebrated in His/Her/Their worship? -WAS- the winter Solstice marked in some way or was another season celebrated? Are you trying to make a break with old patterns of behavior while you are sorting out how if much at all you have changed your thoughts on the subject?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This may sound like a stupid question, but does anyone still celebrate Christmas if your family has a Christian background?   I give Solstice gifts to those for whom it is appropriate, Christmas gifts to those for whom it is appropriate, and birthday gifts to those for whom it is appropriate (4 family birthdays between mid December and Twelveth Night) and Santa gifts to those for whom it is appropriate. Thinking about WHY you are giving/not giving gifts may not be a bad idea. What are you celebrating? Can you honor the beliefs of another person and not feel untrue to your own? Are you giving gifts out of love for family and friends on a day of great joy for them, are you celebrating the return of the Sun/Light/Hope to the Winter dark? And if you have chosen/been chosen by a Deity/ies, historically, what was the time of great holidays celebrated in His/Her/Their worship? -WAS- the winter Solstice marked in some way or was another season celebrated? Are you trying to make a break with old patterns of behavior while you are sorting out how if much at all you have changed your thoughts on the subject?

i still celebrate christmas.  i celebrate solstice as well.  yule is just for those who live under my rooftree and those who know about my spirit path.  the rest is for the public world , and as a small piece of comfort that i didn’t have to give up any thing about my old life(except my insecurities and doubts).  i enjoy the christmas carols and the tree. and i wouldn’t have it any other way. bright blessings arrow

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Thank you.  I’m fairly new this, so I wasn’t sure if it was forbidden and such. I’m used to the Roman Catholic ways which state you’re guilty for pretty much anything you do, say or think.

Then what is the point for belonging to a relgion in which you are "guilty for anything you do, say, or think"? Just curious as such

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Question:

        My dear fellow Christians,     Enthusiasm, almost always admirable, seems to lead in the Christian News Groups to the practice of routine cross posting. I’m counting six News Groups in many of these postings. The NG I’m most interested in is the Episcopal Group. Believe me, Episcopalians in this day and age have issues to discuss and mull over. Recently when I click up the Episcopal News Group, it is full of enthusiastic arguments mass posted broad spectrum, often arguments about homosexuality that promise no end, no point of mutual understanding and no compromise.     I don’t have any solutions to debates that never seem to end, but I would like to ask some of the enthusiastic posters to please meditate for a minute or two upon who might be interested in these posts. If we wish debate, we can always click up debate and read the strings there. I assume the Baptists would like to read Baptist issues on their NG, Catholics also. If you have something that seems to apply to the Episcopal NG, by all means send it. But please think it through before you assume that everyone is equally interested in the post. Respecfully submitted, Yours in Christ, Charles

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And to which actual newsgroup are you referring?

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Thank you Charles. A side point I’d like to make to anybody thinking about Crossposting Eccumencial ideas to alt.religion.roman-catholic:  already more than 75% of our posters are non-catholics trying to convert us and bringing up the same tired old questions about the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism time and time again.  With the volume of our list at over 300 posts/day, please consider lurking with us on Fridays and reading our FAQ before you post to see if your question has already been answered with the Catholic point of view before adding to our glut of messages. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         My dear fellow Christians,     Enthusiasm, almost always admirable, seems to lead in the Christian News Groups to the practice of routine cross posting. I’m counting six News Groups in many of these postings. The NG I’m most interested in is the Episcopal Group. Believe me, Episcopalians in this day and age have issues to discuss and mull over. Recently when I click up the Episcopal News Group, it is full of enthusiastic arguments mass posted broad spectrum, often arguments about homosexuality that promise no end, no point of mutual understanding and no compromise.     I don’t have any solutions to debates that never seem to end, but I would like to ask some of the enthusiastic posters to please meditate for a minute or two upon who might be interested in these posts. If we wish debate, we can always click up debate and read the strings there. I assume the Baptists would like to read Baptist issues on their NG, Catholics also. If you have something that seems to apply to the Episcopal NG, by all means send it. But please think it through before you assume that everyone is equally interested in the post. Respecfully submitted, Yours in Christ, Charles

http://www.teleport.com/~seebert If you believe in government of the people, for the people, by the people, and in fact no separation between people and government, click on the above link.

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You’re probably right. I should have specified alt.religion.christian.episcopal. But of course the gripe is a general gripe and of course common in News Groups other than Christian. Best wishes and prayers Charles Rouse – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And to which actual newsgroup are you referring?

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Question:

Dona nobis pacem Give us peace… Patricia

I thought it was grant us peace, but then my chior teacher taught us that, it’s a beautiful warm up song.

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Per ad adua ad astra-  keep reaching for the stars . <  :0 …nope,  "astra" – doesn’t mean ash-tray as in :  Keep reaching for the ash-tray ..Affectionately,     Rice

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Moon Cat Mick– Dominus vobiscum (the Lord be with you) Et cum spiritu tuo. Lynn

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Me too, I also caught just "one"word of the latin in this post.< Oops ! ( In class Father Crispin used to drum this kinda stuff into us daily

) Affectionately, Rice

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Sim shalom tovah u v’racha. Lynn

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damn!!!!  finaly a post in i language i know and my latin is so rusty i only got one word.

Dona nobis pacem Give us peace… Patricia

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Amen.

Amen for us all, Mark…and most especially for you… Patricia

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Amen.

damn!!!!  finaly a post in i language i know and my latin is so rusty i only got one word. dennis Oh! somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright; The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout But there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has Struck Out

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Amen. damn!!!!  finaly a post in i language i know and my latin is so rusty i only got one word.

Dona = grant nobis = us pacem = peace It’s from the "Agnus Dei," part of the ordinary of the Roman Catholic Tridentine Mass: Agnus dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, | Lamb of God, Who takes away the                                      | sins of the world, Miserere nobis.                                                                                                                                                                         | Have mercy upon us. Agnus dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, | Lamb of God, Who takes away the                                      | sins of the world, Miserere nobis.                                                                                                                                                                         | Have mercy upon us. Agnus dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, | Lamb of God, Who takes away the                                      | sins of the world, Dona nobis pacem.                                                                                                                                                               | Grant us peace. Moon Cat Mick– Dominus vobiscum (the Lord be with you)

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Question:

  Siobhan, looking around for a better prospect.    You called?

  Does Loki know you’ve fluttered over this way?  Hmmm?  There is something I want to ask you, though.  Years ago I was in Cornwall, walking on Pendennis head at Falmouth, and I had a strange experience.  The whole walk shouldn’t take more that 15-20 minutes, and I’d walked it before, but this time it was taking forever, and none of it looked familiar.  I sat down on a log to think about it, and decided to try turning my cardigan inside out and putting it back on.  I felt a bit silly, but just as I put it back on a huge raven burst out of the bushes behind me, and I swear he was laughing. I found my way out within minutes, and there was this little old man waiting at the end of the footpath.  He looked at my inside-out cardigan and winked, then  walked into the wood.  What I want to know is, was that raven you?  Or one of your family?  :)                 Siobhan

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  Siobhan, looking around for a better prospect.

        You called? —                                  "-when, with many a flirt and flutter,         In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore.         Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;         But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door-"                                                             (E.A.Poe 1845-49)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Siobhan, looking around for a better prospect.       You called?  Does Loki know you’ve fluttered over this way?  Hmmm?  There is something I want to ask you, though.  Years ago I was in Cornwall, walking on Pendennis head at Falmouth, and I had a strange experience.  The whole walk shouldn’t take more that 15-20 minutes, and I’d walked it before, but this time it was taking forever, and none of it looked familiar.  I sat down on a log to think about it, and decided to try turning my cardigan inside out and putting it back on.  I felt a bit silly, but just as I put it back on a huge raven burst out of the bushes behind me, and I swear he was laughing. I found my way out within minutes, and there was this little old man waiting at the end of the footpath.  He looked at my inside-out cardigan and winked, then  walked into the wood.  What I want to know is, was that raven you?  Or one of your family?  :)                Siobhan

No, I didn’t realize he’d wandered over here.  I seem to be missing a lot of posts lately.  I see others quoting them, but not the originals…  Oh well.. As to the Raven.  He is a flirt.  Fine.  Let him flirt if you wish.  I don’t own him and besides, with wild creatures it’s best not to try to hold them.   They come and go of their own will and if you try to keep them they don’t come back.  I’d like for him to come back and stay a while so I’ll not try to hold him.   But beware.  He should also come with a government warning label that he is addictive… Loki – who got her plane ticket to the UK in the mail today…

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   Moi!…Rascal? ….surely not.    I don`t know where you got such erronious information, I am as    always the perfect gentlebird.

  Well, don’t get your feathers ruffled, it WAS well meant.  Rascals can be such fun, you know.    By the way, did you land on Shez`s stick? If so I`ll dispell this    illusion of you thats on my back.

  Better check and see just who IS on your back.  ;)  Believe me, the second that that duvet tried to leave the ground it would be instant teleport back to terra firma for me.  Some things is meant to fly, and some ain’t.  Broomsticks and ravens fall into the first category, duvets and carpets do not.  Gooney birds are somewhere in the middle, I think.  :)                         Siobhan —   "A good many dramatic situations begin with screaming."                      Siobhan M. Burke

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  Siobhan, looking around for a better prospect.       You called? x

Question:

: I’d also like to point out, in this discussion, that self-initiation and : solitary practice are IMHO better than joining the wrong coven.  Finding    Amyn, sister. There is NOTHING worse and more disruptive to both the individual and the group than the wrong person in the wrong circle. Internal group dynamics can vary so widely….some as serious as a Roman Catholic mass, some as spontaneous as a Pentecostal prayer meeting… some as committed as a group marriage, some as distant as a carpool… that you owe it to both yourself and to the group to be sure it’s the right space for you to be in.   In our present age of the ‘Net, I’d suggest that lonely solitaries find someone to chat with in email if they can’t find the wrong group. Heck, we’ve done online rituals on a small social MUSH my wife and I run and it’s been a party. There are other, better options than joining the wrong group.  Eldar of Water, Thalia Clan Eclectic Wiccan Community, Indianapolis, IN                                 Blessed be!

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I’d also like to point out, in this discussion, that self-initiation and solitary practice are IMHO better than joining the wrong coven.  Finding a coven to work with is *not* just a matter of "finding a coven that will accept you"; you also have to make sure your personality and your beliefs fit with the people in that coven. And what if you have serious doubts about working with a coven at all?   In that case, it’s better to work solitary, than to join just any coven that will take you, and find out later you made a big mistake. I don’t believe my solitary, rather than coven, practice makes me any less a Witch.  But then, I’m Dianic, and in that tradition, it is the Goddess Who initiates directly, with no HP/HPs "channel."  Do I consider myself to have been initiated by Her?  You’d better believe I do!  Some people would say I’ve "found the Goddess," but, based on my experiences with Her in dreams and meditation, I’d say She found me and claims me as Her own. Ishara

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