Question:
writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s very good. Most catholics don’t pray. ????? Your source for this outrageous, insulting and downright sill statement? Reality, I guess. According to a survey in France, less than 15% of Catholics are attending mass each Sunday. I don’t know the % in USA. Two points. 1. What survey, where, when, conducted by whom, and what was the sample number, and correlation to the general catholic population? 2. Since when is Mass the only means of prayer open to catholics? That survey, assuming for the sake of argument it is correct, (and at least in Tial, it probably would be) proves something about Mass attendance, but nothing whatsoever about prayer. Sorry, but I find this insulting in the extreme. You have a problem then. Oh, I’ve got lots, among them, the two mentioned above. Ok, you win, I’ll leave this newsgroups. bye
WHAT??? This is getting ridiculous. All I did, I think, was say that I found the ide that most cahtolics do not pray insulting, and ask where the study came from, etc., and why the mass was to be seen as the only form of prayer!! Is it just me? DID I ask him to leave the ng? (I’ve put that in the third person, because if he says he’s leaving, I assume he is). It’s getting to the point I’m afraid to put my hands on the keyboard, here: open question: DID I tell him to skedaddle? I did NOT mean to! IS saying "that is insulting" somehow equivalent to "let me show you the door"? — janet Creator of all things, …graciously let a ray of your brilliance penetrate into the darkness of my understanding… Aquinas, Prayer before Study
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s very good. Most catholics don’t pray. ????? Your source for this outrageous, insulting and downright sill statement? Reality, I guess. According to a survey in France, less than 15% of Catholics are attending mass each Sunday. I don’t know the % in USA. Two points. 1. What survey, where, when, conducted by whom, and what was the sample number, and correlation to the general catholic population? 2. Since when is Mass the only means of prayer open to catholics? That survey, assuming for the sake of argument it is correct, (and at least in Tial, it probably would be) proves something about Mass attendance, but nothing whatsoever about prayer. Sorry, but I find this insulting in the extreme. You have a problem then. Oh, I’ve got lots, among them, the two mentioned above.
Ok, you win, I’ll leave this newsgroups. bye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich George Petryk — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
americ says: At Fatima, our Lady teach us a nice prayer to be said during the Rosary. Do you pray the Rosary ?
That’s very good. Most catholics don’t pray. There are many flowers in the garden. Some are very nice while others need help. God cares about all the flowers. So must we. Some people could be considered as true "ante-christ". It’s often difficult to understand how they can convert. God is Almighty, not we. He will do what necessary to help people (including witches) all He need is our constant prayer. I have a story and (sorry for my English, I fluently speak French) here it is: Padre Pio was a famous mystic in Italy. One day, a youg man come to him. The man has problems with the devil. Either he made a pact or made a very bad choice. The point is that Padre Pio has inner knowledge (guardian angel ? virgin mary ? don’t know) that there was nothing that can be done to help the man. So he let him go away. BAM
Regards, George Petryk
Response:
writes americ says: At Fatima, our Lady teach us a nice prayer to be said during the Rosary. Do you pray the Rosary ? That’s very good. Most catholics don’t pray.
????? Your source for this outrageous, insulting and downright sill statement? Sorry, but I find this insulting in the extreme. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -There are many flowers in the garden. Some are very nice while others need help. God cares about all the flowers. So must we. Some people could be considered as true "ante-christ". It’s often difficult to understand how they can convert. God is Almighty, not we. He will do what necessary to help people (including witches) all He need is our constant prayer. I have a story and (sorry for my English, I fluently speak French) here it is: Padre Pio was a famous mystic in Italy. One day, a youg man come to him. The man has problems with the devil. Either he made a pact or made a very bad choice. The point is that Padre Pio has inner knowledge (guardian angel ? virgin mary ? don’t know) that there was nothing that can be done to help the man. So he let him go away. BAM Regards, George Petryk
– janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes americ says: At Fatima, our Lady teach us a nice prayer to be said during the Rosary. Do you pray the Rosary ? That’s very good. Most catholics don’t pray. ????? Your source for this outrageous, insulting and downright sill statement?
Reality, I guess. According to a survey in France, less than 15% of Catholics are attending mass each Sunday. I don’t know the % in USA. Sorry, but I find this insulting in the extreme.
You have a problem then. — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
George Petryk
Response:
americ says: Yes, there’s a prayer, it’s called "Our Father" and Jesus counted on it.
I fail to see your point. BAM
Response:
americ says: Yes, there’s a prayer, it’s called "Our Father" and Jesus counted on it. I fail to see your point. BAM
What a surprise? So what else is new? finder
Response:
[deleted] Enjoyable ? I would’t find it enjoyable to talk to a black sheep (or worst to the devil itself). Have you read it? No thanks. You said a witch was on the discussion. I have no time to lose with her. Wht about with the Catholics and others involved? And what about the duty, pointed out by others, to teach? "How will they know, unless they are tuaght, and how will they be taught unless a teacher is sent?"
Refer her to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Refer her to prayers and sacraments. Enough is said. I don’t feel I have any authority AT ALL to write ANYONE off. — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
George Petryk Club America
Response:
[snip] But, finder, some of us pray differently, and no one way is "valid" for all! (Which is why, I think, God has sent so MANY mystics! grin). I’m not that organised, and I just tend to offer the whole shibang to God in one lump: think of a child proffering a broken toy to a parent: it never enters the little one’s head that the toy will NOT be fixed! Of course, it’s not an original idea: Julian saw God holding the whole world in his hand (que song) like a walnut, nurturing it and caring for it. This is just another way of doing things; it isn’t better, (nor, I think, worse); but it DOES mean that I don’t have to put things in an order!
Janet: I respect your advice, as I don’t BAM’s. We cannot abandon hope for anybody, no matter how bad the circumstances appear. And certainly not for a friend. Clearly we can pray for somebody who thinks they are a "white witch." They are simply wrong. Gone off the beaten path. But apart from prayer, what else? I decided that "tough love" was the way to go. I advised this person to give up alcohol and drugs – which has been a problem, though not an acknowledged one. I also recommended giving up Wicca and Ouija (?) and all kinds of fortunetelling. She will listen to none of that right now. But eventually it might sink in. At least that’s my hope. finder
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – e.demon.co.uk writes: [snip] But, finder, some of us pray differently, and no one way is "valid" for all! (Which is why, I think, God has sent so MANY mystics! grin). I’m not that organised, and I just tend to offer the whole shibang to God in one lump: think of a child proffering a broken toy to a parent: it never enters the little one’s head that the toy will NOT be fixed! Of course, it’s not an original idea: Julian saw God holding the whole world in his hand (que song) like a walnut, nurturing it and caring for it. This is just another way of doing things; it isn’t better, (nor, I think, worse); but it DOES mean that I don’t have to put things in an order! Janet: I respect your advice, as I don’t BAM’s.
A bit harsh, surely? I’m sure the intention is good… 
We cannot abandon hope
what ever happened to that thread about Dante? for anybody, no matter how bad the circumstances appear. And certainly not for a friend.
Friend or not, I think you are correct. Clearly we can pray for somebody who thinks they are a "white witch." They are simply wrong. Gone off the beaten path. But apart from prayer, what else? I decided that "tough love" was the way to go.
This is a decision only you can make in these circumstances. I advised this person to give up alcohol and drugs – which has been a problem, though not an acknowledged one. I also recommended giving up Wicca and Ouija (?)
Now that, THAT worries me a lot more that "white" wicca. I know Robin says we must not be frightened of such things, but it is hard advice to take: that stuff scares me silly. and all kinds of fortunetelling. She will listen to none of that right now. But eventually it might sink in. At least that’s my hope.
And, of course, your prayer and ours! finder
– janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
americ says: At Fatima, our Lady teach us a nice prayer to be said during the Rosary. Do you pray the Rosary ?
BAM
Response:
It’s amazing how many ridiculous things a Catholic can get blamed for - like not praying for witches. BAM
At Fatima, our Lady teach us a nice prayer to be said during the Rosary. Do you pray the Rosary ? George Petryk
Response:
You’re not a great polemicist, finder. As far as prayer goes, we all list our intentions in a particular order. So let’s say, after I’ve prayed for my family, ancestors, the souls in Purgatory,(especially the Protestants who have no one to pray for them) the unborn, the starving, the needy, the unemployed, my country, myself, yes, maybe way,way,way down the list, there could be a prayer that witches will repent. But don’t count on it.
Yes, there’s a prayer, it’s called "Our Father" and Jesus counted on it. BAM BAM
George Petryk
Response:
This goes to show you should always be careful when replying to people. This was supposed to be email… Sorry about the clutter Suzanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have an answer to your dilemma, but you might want to try posting it on my message board:
Response:
Hello, What advice can you give me except to pray for her? You should consider finding a new friend. Do we leave behind everyone who needs our help?
As far as friendship is concerned, the answer is definitely yes. Still, the best advice is to pray for them. In Hells, souls are rejecting any kind of help. If she boast new "supernatural" powers: mind reading, telling future, etc… she certainly has a new "inner" friend (i.e. the devil) and she needs an exorcism. How about having a look at tnn.roman.catholic, where there is a three which began, YooHoo…? It’s a discussion with a self proclaimed witch, and enjoyable. Enjoyable ? I would’t find it enjoyable to talk to a black sheep (or worst to the devil itself). Have you read it?
No thanks. You said a witch was on the discussion. I have no time to lose with her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What advice can you give me except to pray for her? You should consider finding a new friend. Do we leave behind everyone who needs our help? As far as friendship is concerned, the answer is definitely yes. Still, the best advice is to pray for them. In Hells, souls are rejecting any kind of help. If she boast new "supernatural" powers: mind reading, telling future, etc… she certainly has a new "inner" friend (i.e. the devil) and she needs an exorcism. How about having a look at tnn.roman.catholic, where there is a three which began, YooHoo…? It’s a discussion with a self proclaimed witch, and enjoyable. Enjoyable ? I would’t find it enjoyable to talk to a black sheep (or worst to the devil itself). Have you read it? No thanks. You said a witch was on the discussion. I have no time to lose with her.
Wht about with the Catholics and others involved? And what about the duty, pointed out by others, to teach? "How will they know, unless they are tuaght, and how will they be taught unless a teacher is sent?" I don’t feel I have any authority AT ALL to write ANYONE off. — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
– janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -finder says: I advised this person to give it up, and to try doing "good works" in her parish; to join them in helping the poor, or the troubled, or … Not surprisingly it hasn’t worked. But long repetition COULD make it work its way into her subconscious. It might EVENTUALLY work. As Monica did to Augustine. Not that Augustine wasn’t in some respect nuts! You’re not a great polemicist, finder. As far as prayer goes, we all list our intentions in a particular order. So let’s say, after I’ve prayed for my family, ancestors, the souls in Purgatory,(especially the Protestants who have no one to pray for them) the unborn, the starving, the needy, the unemployed, my country, myself, yes, maybe way,way,way down the list, there could be a prayer that witches will repent. But don’t count on it. BAM BAM
But, finder, some of us pray differently, and no one way is "valid" for all! (Which is why, I think, God has sent so MANY mystics! grin). I’m not that organised, and I just tend to offer the whole shibang to God in one lump: think of a child proffering a broken toy to a parent: it never enters the little one’s head that the toy will NOT be fixed! Of course, it’s not an original idea: Julian saw God holding the whole world in his hand (que song) like a walnut, nurturing it and caring for it. This is just another way of doing things; it isn’t better, (nor, I think, worse); but it DOES mean that I don’t have to put things in an order! — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
I want to ask about present day Wicca and its practice. I have a friend, a lady, who is into it. I told her that at best it was silly superstition, and ar worst diabolical. Question: Is it diabolical? Is it dangerous? She emphasises that it is "white witchcraft" and not "black". Is this a meaningless distinction? What advice can you give me except to pray for her?
Well, prayer for her is important. Despite the disgust some people on this group have exhibited, God loves all of his children, despite our sins, and he is sad whenever any of them are condemned to Hell by their own actions. Everybody is capable of salvation through Jesus Christ, and the saved must not judge those who are yet to see the light. As far as witchcraft is concerned, a Baptist friend of mine explained it very succinctly. In the universe, there are two supernatural powers – God and Satan. If a super-human power does not come from God, then there is only one other place it could come from. Only prophets granted the grace of God can see the future. Satan cannot see the future, though he is incredibly cunning, so any apparent fortune-telling cannot tell the future. It can only make good guesses, and it can make them come true. A TV show I was watching once about hauntings gave me some frightening food for thought. Apparently, a "friendly ghost" somehow warned the people living in a house that there was going to be a fire. Later on, there was. I was practically screaming at the TV screen, "You idiots!!! Can’t you see? It warned you about the fire, then it LIT the f–king fire!!!! WAKE UP!!!" Ahem… yes, I get a little worked up sometimes. Another case, this time from my personal experience, centred around a female friend of mine, who was a self-proclaimed psychic. One day, during holidays away from uni, I received a letter from her. In the envelope was a piece of paper cut out from a magazine with a blue five-pointed star printed on it. In the letter, she said that she had poured all of her psychic energy into it, and if I wanted something, I just had to hold it in my hands and meditate on what I wanted. I kept ir for a few weeks, then one day I was holding it, looking at it, and I was suddenly hit by a wave of dread. I realised that I was putting my faith in a piece of paper, not in God. I got such a fright that I tore it up there and then and threw it out with the rest of the garbage. What I am trying to say is that all of these innocent-looking scams cooked up by Satan, like astrology, numerology, I Ching, tarot, runes, crystals, and the rest were put in place to distract people from what they are supposed to have faith in. If you are putting your faith in a pretty piece of rock, or in an assortment of pieces of cardboard, then you are not putting your faith in God. Pretty neat scam, eh? — | | | Homepage - http://www.ozramp.net.au/~minx/decker/constrct.html | | | | | James J. Dominguez’s Opinion | "My wife says I get distracted | | | IRCnet: MCDecker or DexX on | …sorry, you were saying?" | | #australia #melbourne #christian | - Me on a good day | | | | If you have no desire to spam me, reverse my Email above |
Response:
I don’t want to raise the problem of medieval burning of witches at the stake and all that – horrors we need not consider now! I want to ask about present day Wicca and its practice. I have a friend, a lady, who is into it. I told her that at best it was silly superstition, and ar worst diabolical. Question: Is it diabolical? Is it dangerous? She emphasises that it is "white witchcraft" and not "black". Is this a meaningless distinction? What advice can you give me except to pray for her? finder
Response:
Pray for witches? I’ve never heard anything so stupid in my life. You might as well pray for hell to repent. BAM
BAM, this is wierd. Do you deny that the mercy of God is there for anyone still living, or that God could not forgive anyone, or that God would not???? Have there been no great conversions? Would Augustine ever have come to the church but for the prayers of Monica???? — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
Pray for witches? I’ve never heard anything so stupid in my life. You might as well pray for hell to repent.
God desires that all people be saved … it’s not for us to make exceptions. David. — Sooner or later, our sun will grow old and burn out, whether it happens in 100 years or a million years. And it won’t just take us with it. It will take Marilyn Monroe, Buddy Holly, … And all of this – ALL of this would have been for nothing, unless we go to the stars. (Babylon 5) DC.D f++ s+ h++ CS a++++ $+ m** d+++ WL++* Fr++++ Bfire L^ http://www.triode.net.au/~dragon/www.html
Response:
David Powell says: God desires that all people be saved … it’s not for us to make exceptions.
Fine. That’s why I told Robin to go to Confession and delouse her soul. BAM
Response:
Hello, I want to ask about present day Wicca and its practice. I have a friend, a lady, who is into it. I told her that at best it was silly superstition, and ar worst diabolical. Question: Is it diabolical? Is it dangerous? She emphasises that it is "white witchcraft" and not "black". Is this a meaningless distinction? What advice can you give me except to pray for her? You should consider finding a new friend.
Do we leave behind everyone who needs our help? If she boast new "supernatural" powers: mind reading, telling future, etc… she certainly has a new "inner" friend (i.e. the devil) and she needs an exorcism. How about having a look at tnn.roman.catholic, where there is a three which began, YooHoo…? It’s a discussion with a self proclaimed witch, and enjoyable. Enjoyable ? I would’t find it enjoyable to talk to a black sheep (or worst to the devil itself).
Have you read it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Superstition? Yes. Evil? That depends on your point of view. (BAM will answer, I am sure ; ). It certainly is not the truth, as I believe it to be, in the church. It’s evil since you’re losing your freedom. No, it’s not the truth. The devil is a big liar (even to its own disciples). Dangerous? almost certainly, if your friend gets in with a group that is not sensible. It’s dangerous since you’re playing with deadly sins. Sins that are against the Holy Spirit. But no matter what we said, the BEST advice is ALWAYS to pray!! finder — janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich George Petryk
– janet "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well" Julian of Norwich
Response:
Pray for witches? I’ve never heard anything so stupid in my life. You might as well pray for hell to repent. BAM
Response:
I don’t want to raise the problem of medieval burning of witches at the stake and all that – horrors we need not consider now! Finder, those did not take place in the middle ages! The bulk of them happened in the 15-17oo’s, although the vast majority were over by the 1660’s, (Salem is considered a historical blip)!
And mostly in France and Germany. There were relatively few witch burning in many countries, notably England. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question: Is it diabolical? Is it dangerous? She emphasises that it is "white witchcraft" and not "black". Is this a meaningless distinction? What advice can you give me except to pray for her? How about having a look at tnn.roman.catholic, where there is a three which began, YooHoo…? It’s a discussion with a self proclaimed witch, and enjoyable. As to what wicca is, there is no realy answer, becasue there is no structure. The basic law is "an it do no harm, do what you will", (an here meaning if). Superstition? Yes. Evil? That depends on your point of view. (BAM will answer, I am sure ; ). It certainly is not the truth, as I believe it to be, in the church. Dangerous? almost certainly, if your friend gets in with a group that is not sensible.
I don’t know a whole lot about Wicca. It would depend on the intentions, goals and the means. It seems to have good intentions. If it relies on black magic or the invocation of any gods, then it’s definitely to be avoided. However, if it only uses white magic (no invocation of spirits or the devil) then it’s superstitious but not evil. The Church was rather tolerant of ‘white magic’, at least in France. Minerva’s Catholic message board http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7724/b.htm Ask a question Make a comment Post a prayer request Catholics and Non-Catholics welcome! DO NOT send me email promoting your product, service, web-site, religion, cause, or get-rich-quick scheme. I don’t do business with spammers.
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.