Question:
The reason that doctors have such bad results is at least twofold 1 the patients do nothing to help themselves. They do not change their diet, their way of living. They just have faith (or lack of faith) in a process. The doctors do not lead them towards a change of lifestyle. 2 the doctors and surgeons are only dealing with the visible, physical manifestation of the cancer. The real cancer is the way the body is reacting to the food and thought and energy presented and how cells are constructed based on that diet, thought and energy. So, yes, choosing a treatment is like choosing a religion, but you at the temple we call a hospital you are only shown 4 possible choices. There are others outside and available. It is like going to that other religion, the one of the supermarket, and finding only 4 items, when you know there must be others in the storeroom out back. I list just a few amongst the books which all those with prostate problems, cancerous or not, should read before accepting any orthodox treatment. There must be many more books written by people who know of alternatives and/or have kicked the illness themselves and decided to write about it. An End to Cancer, by Leon Chaitow ISBN 0 7225 0475 6 My Pathway through Cancer by Hazel Scade ISBN 0 9542762 0 5 Living Proof by John Bayley ISBN 0 7432 0677 0 Prostate Health in 90 Days by Larry Clapp ISBN 1 56170 460 1 Eat Right for Your Type by Dr Peter D’Adamo ISBN0 7126 7716 X The Water of Life by J W Armstrong ISBN0 85032 052 6 * The Golden Fountain by Coen van der Kroon ISBN1 85860 054 5 * * indicates that I have posted large excerpts from these books on a Newsgroup. I can send them as e-mail attachments to you personally if you wish. Incidentally, my religions are Quaker and Spiritualist, but I have had 20 years as in The Church of England, then 20 years as a Roman Catholic. In each church I was, organist, choir master, server, etc, taking a pretty central role. You need to get involved to really understand what is happening in any church or religion. — Martin Howard Webbs Cottage Pottery Woolpits Road, Great Saling BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ 01371 850 423 http://www.webbscottage.co.uk Updated 6th July 2002
Response:
RP is only a crude diagnostic tool not a curative tool. But as Dennis Miller says, "This is only my opinion, I could be wrong." KEDM
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve talked with three urologists, when I press for information about how many procedures they’ve done and what outcomes were the Docs just tell stories THEY DON’T KEEP RECORDS. Since my final decision for treatment will be no better than the information that it is based upon and since I CAN’T access records I feel frustration on steriods. My observation is that all these doctors are basically islands, they compete for patients, they don’t share records because they don’t keep records. They have their "story" and ask me (us) to buy it. Once doctor told me that any surgeon should be able to remove a prostate in thier sleep. Yet 90% of patients are rendered impotent with high incodence of incontinence. It seems to me that these doctors are mere butchers who haven’t figured out how to escape the negative side effects from their surgery. One man promotes his religion, another man promotes his … doctors are the same. Until they actually begain keepsing records of each and every treatment and continue recording the patient’s treatment history we will never really know which treatments are most effective and benificial. One doctor I went to drives a corvette. It is reasonable to assume that when he made the car purchase he knew the horse-power, the mileage, the color, the warranty, etc. When I complained to him that I had no access to information he simply said that that is what he was for … he suggested that I use him as my sole scource of information. Yet we all know that when he bought his corvette he employed resources besides his saleman to double check auto specs and all this just for buying transportation … the decisions we must all make are far more difficult yet we are nearly blind to good solid 3rd party research & study. Doctors are so arrogant ~ why? They operate on such a sloppy hap-hazard arbitrary platform. They deserve about as much trust as attorneys do. Take 10,000 men who have prostate cancer. Where is the study that follows each man through his treatment choices and resulting outcomes? Provide this data and our decisions become elevated above mere guess & chance & religion.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve talked with three urologists, when I press for information about how many procedures they’ve done and what outcomes were the Docs just tell stories THEY DON’T KEEP RECORDS. Since my final decision for treatment will be no better than the information that it is based upon and since I CAN’T access records I feel frustration on steriods. My observation is that all these doctors are basically islands, they compete for patients, they don’t share records because they don’t keep records. They have their "story" and ask me (us) to buy it. Once doctor told me that any surgeon should be able to remove a prostate in thier sleep. Yet 90% of patients are rendered impotent with high incodence of incontinence. It seems to me that these doctors are mere butchers who haven’t figured out how to escape the negative side effects from their surgery. One man promotes his religion, another man promotes his … doctors are the same. Until they actually begain keepsing records of each and every treatment and continue recording the patient’s treatment history we will never really know which treatments are most effective and benificial. One doctor I went to drives a corvette. It is reasonable to assume that when he made the car purchase he knew the horse-power, the mileage, the color, the warranty, etc. When I complained to him that I had no access to information he simply said that that is what he was for … he suggested that I use him as my sole scource of information. Yet we all know that when he bought his corvette he employed resources besides his saleman to double check auto specs and all this just for buying transportation … the decisions we must all make are far more difficult yet we are nearly blind to good solid 3rd party research & study. Doctors are so arrogant ~ why? They operate on such a sloppy hap-hazard arbitrary platform. They deserve about as much trust as attorneys do. Take 10,000 men who have prostate cancer. Where is the study that follows each man through his treatment choices and resulting outcomes? Provide this data and our decisions become elevated above mere guess & chance & religion.
You may have a right to your bitterness. I don’t shop at a particular store, because I don’t like the way I’m treated. Others don’t seem to mind, and that store stays in business anyway. What do you think would happen to your doc’s patient load, if the crowds did the same? Sounds like you saw 3 lemons. My Doc cited percentages, scenarios, his track record, answered all questions, and he does 100 RP’s a year and is the head of the dept of the #1 rated hospital in the country. Keep looking…. when you find the right Uro… you’ll know it. — Sinrod Stained Glass www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Response:
I’ve talked with three urologists, when I press for information about how many procedures they’ve done and what outcomes were the Docs just tell stories THEY DON’T KEEP RECORDS. Since my final decision for treatment will be no better than the information that it is based upon and since I CAN’T access records I feel frustration on steriods.
I think you are talking to the wrong doctors. It is a bad sign if the doctor won’t give you at least some idea. You want to know if he does say one every month or so or if he does more like 100 a year. You don’t have to worry about precise numbers. If you go to the web site at Johns Hopkins urology.jhu.edu it was my understanding you could find some way to get referrals to surgeons they recommend elsewhere in the country. But I have to admit I can’t find it. Maybe you just call the number under patient information. But I’m pretty sure several people in this newsgroup have done that. If you have a major medical center nearby, you might ask them for a referral. My observation is that all these doctors are basically islands, they compete for patients, they don’t share records because they don’t keep records. They have their "story" and ask me (us) to buy it. Once doctor told me that any surgeon should be able to remove a prostate in thier sleep. Yet 90% of patients are rendered impotent with high incodence of incontinence. It seems to me that these doctors are mere butchers who haven’t figured out how to escape the negative side effects from their surgery.
If he told you 90 percent of his patients are impotent and they have a high incidence of incontinence, stay away from him. One man promotes his religion, another man promotes his … doctors are the same. Until they actually begain keepsing records of each and every treatment and continue recording the patient’s treatment history we will never really know which treatments are most effective and benificial.
A lot of doctors do keep such records. And the state and federal governments should require all of them to do so. One doctor I went to drives a corvette. It is reasonable to assume that when he made the car purchase he knew the horse-power, the mileage, the color, the warranty, etc. When I complained to him that I had no access to information he simply said that that is what he was for … he suggested that I use him as my sole scource of information. Yet we all know that when he bought his corvette he employed resources besides his saleman to double check auto specs and all this just for buying transportation … the decisions we must all make are far more difficult yet we are nearly blind to good solid 3rd party research & study. Doctors are so arrogant ~ why? They operate on such a sloppy hap-hazard arbitrary platform. They deserve about as much trust as attorneys do.
Again, I think you may have seen the wrong doctors. My urologist was not at all arrogant. And he was willing to answer, within reason, the questions I asked. You may not get detailed information down to the last percentage point. Often such information is pretty meaninless. But you ought to get general answers about whether or not a doctor does a lot of these procedures, and information like how he compares to others with respect to things like surgical margins. He also ought to give you some idea of how likely incontinence and impotence are after surgery. But remember a lot of that depends on you and not on him. For example, my doctor told me that the odds were 50 percent that I would be permanently impotent. When I asked him if that was partly dependent on my age (67), he said yes. I’m sure he would have given a lower estimate for a younger man. Take 10,000 men who have prostate cancer. Where is the study that follows each man through his treatment choices and resulting outcomes? Provide this data and our decisions become elevated above mere guess & chance & religion.
In this country we have a disorganize chaotic system to monitor medical treatment and results. It is unfortunate, but that is what we have to deal with. On the other hand, medical centers like Hopkins keep elaborate records on thousands of patients, and they can give you whatever information you want. But remember that it is pointless to try to get too precise about these matters. — Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
Response:
I’ve talked with three urologists, when I press for information about how many procedures they’ve done and what outcomes were the Docs just tell stories THEY DON’T KEEP RECORDS. Since my final decision for treatment will be no better than the information that it is based upon and since I CAN’T access records I feel frustration on steriods. My observation is that all these doctors are basically islands, they compete for patients, they don’t share records because they don’t keep records. They have their "story" and ask me (us) to buy it. Once doctor told me that any surgeon should be able to remove a prostate in thier sleep. Yet 90% of patients are rendered impotent with high incodence of incontinence. It seems to me that these doctors are mere butchers who haven’t figured out how to escape the negative side effects from their surgery. One man promotes his religion, another man promotes his … doctors are the same. Until they actually begain keepsing records of each and every treatment and continue recording the patient’s treatment history we will never really know which treatments are most effective and benificial. One doctor I went to drives a corvette. It is reasonable to assume that when he made the car purchase he knew the horse-power, the mileage, the color, the warranty, etc. When I complained to him that I had no access to information he simply said that that is what he was for … he suggested that I use him as my sole scource of information. Yet we all know that when he bought his corvette he employed resources besides his saleman to double check auto specs and all this just for buying transportation … the decisions we must all make are far more difficult yet we are nearly blind to good solid 3rd party research & study. Doctors are so arrogant ~ why? They operate on such a sloppy hap-hazard arbitrary platform. They deserve about as much trust as attorneys do. Take 10,000 men who have prostate cancer. Where is the study that follows each man through his treatment choices and resulting outcomes? Provide this data and our decisions become elevated above mere guess & chance & religion.
Response:
I’ve talked with three urologists, when I press for information about how many procedures they’ve done and what outcomes were the Docs just tell stories THEY DON’T KEEP RECORDS.
That is not exactly accurate. They keep records, but they don’t make a record of successes and failures. There is almost no good reason for them to do so and lots a reasons not to. Once doctor told me that any surgeon should be able to remove a prostate in thier sleep. Yet 90% of patients are rendered impotent with high incodence of incontinence. It seems to me that these doctors are mere butchers who haven’t figured out how to escape the negative side effects from their surgery.
The doctor who said a surgeon can remove a prostate in his sleep ought to be removed from practice. However, impotence and incontinence are not principally the result of surgical buthery. Usually, nowadays, a decision is made to remove that which causes erections or not to remove it. It takes some skill to not remove them and the better the surgeon, the better your chances at having erections. It’s still only small percentage points difference. Yet we all know that when he bought his corvette he employed resources besides his saleman to double check auto specs and all this just for buying transportation …
If he had, he wouldn’t have bought a Corvette. I’ll bet he plunked down $40,000 and bought an extended warranty. Tough to do that with cancer and erectile disfuction. Steve Kramer PSA 16, G7, T2c PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 PSA .34 .22
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