Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

Hi Connie, Keeping in spoiler. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kristin wrote, in response to Butterflies: [spoilering] * * * * * * * * * I am a Christian.  My beliefs conflict strongly with the way I am living my life due to the eating disorder. I’m also a Christian. I know this will probably come across as flaming, but….gonna say it, anyway.   Right here is a problematic situation.  What, exactly, is YOUR definition of "Christian?"

Someone whose religious philosophy believes that a man called Jesus is the son of God.  They could be Catholic, Orthodox (Greek, Eastern, Russian, etc.), Protestant, or other.  It’s an umbrella term, for me. I have the feeling that it eliminates or disregards many of the others in the world who are also "Christian," i.e., Roman Catholic and no doubt Protestant faiths other than whatever your particular (perhaps not as mainstream?) one is?

Why does the word "Christian" eliminate Catholics, Protestants, etc.?  To me, as stated above, it’s an umbrella term to encompass every denomination that has the man called Jesus (who lived approx 2,000 years ago) as the center of their religious philosophy.  To me, the words Catholic, Protestant (Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.) tell what type of Christian philosophy one subscribes to.  Each of these that I named, plus those I didn’t (for the sake of brevity), look at Christianity differently. I am not trying to start an argument, but am just pointing out something. This is where things can get real touchy and sensitive and so on, and a really good reason why it might be better to leave the religious discussions off the newsgroup.  This is a secular newsgroup, not a religious one.

True, that religion can be a touchy subject, but as I stated in a previous post, it’s a part of many people’s lives.  Spoilering is what’s required for things that can be potentially triggering/touchy for people.  The subject doesn’t pop up all the time, so I don’t see the harm (IF PROPERLY LABELED IN SUBJECT HEADINGS AND SPOILERED) in bringing it up here.  If it were brought up all the time, I’d agree with you.  I’d encourage those whose religious philosophies are not Christian to post about their philosophies as well.  I’d like to learn from their points of view as well. We have people of all faiths on this newsgroup: Jewish, Muslim, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Greek Catholic, Mormon, various Protestant sects, WIccans, and atheists.  As has been mentioned before, some people have been seriously affected by religious practices inflicted upon them, another good reason to hesitate before getting too deeply into religious discussions here, spoilered or not.

I have no disagreements with your statements here.  I hope those who are of other faiths than Christianity to post from time to time. As far as those being seriously affected, I know there probably are some here that have been, and I am truly sorry (lack of a better word here) that someone or someones misused and abused religion to hurt someone.  That saddens me and sickens me.  There are others here that have been seriously affected by something else, like the misuse and abuse of sex.  I, for one, fall into that category.  I wouldn’t want to see those discussions necessarily taken off ased.  I’ve killfiled some subject headers (I’ve AOL, and one can killfile/filter out both e-mail addresses and subject contents), and people, to help protect me from potentially harmful subjects (what would be harmful to me).  Nothing’s 100 percent effective, I agree.  However, I feel spoilers and filters really help. It’s too easy to push hot buttons here. Let’s be careful, huh?   Religion and the other major hot button, politics, are maybe subjects which should be addressed elsewhere in forums specifically prepared to discuss them….

I agree that we need to be careful and sensitive to people’s needs.  I guess I’m also from the "Live and let live" philosophy.  One of my best friends from Graduate School is Wiccan.  She and I had wonderful religious discussions, although we were basically polar opposites in our religious philosophies. As far as other forums, I don’t want to be a member of "every single" type of forum out there.  Okay, that’s an over statement, but I made it to make this point:  I only want to be a member of a few newsgroups, listservs, etc.  If I posted to every on-line group that had an interest in common with mine, I’d be on-line 24/7.   Spirituality, in general, doesn’t seem to raise as many hackles as specific expression of religiosity does.  Maybe we could look at this  in terms of spirituality as opposed to a particular church’s preachings?  Or go into email for further in-depth discussions?

I agree.  That’s one reason I’ve not disclosed which Christian denomination I "subscribe" to.  In my list at the beginning of this reply, I left my denomination out.  I try to keep my religious discussion fairly generic Christian.  There are some Christian denominations that I’ve had horrible experiences with (and I will not name them here), but I don’t want to silence their voices here. One thing, why is it that many people (I’m not necessarily saying you feel this way, alright?) use the word religion as a synonym for Christianity?  I don’t understand.  My view is that Christianity is only ONE expression of religion. Buddism would be another one, as would Judaism, Muslim, Wiccan, and Atheism. I also would rather have religious discussion kept more on the generic level (for whatever religion it may be), unless it’s taken to e-mail.  However, I don’t feel it’s harmful to say I’m a Christian, or Wiccan, or Atheist, or whatever.  Like I’ve said, I wouldn’t mind it if someone whose of a different religion from mine quoted scripture from whatever holy book they use (I don’t know who uses what, so pardon the term).  I try to learn from everyone.  Some of my beliefs have been challenged, strengthened, and changed by my friends of other religions sometimes more than my friends who are Christian. As I mentioned earlier, there is at least one mailing list which does focus upon EDs and religious beliefs…. worth checking into, I would guess!

Why not post the address for people who may be interested? Just some thoughts here…

Thanks for your imput.  I didn’t interpret this as flaming.  I hope you don’t interpret this reply as flaming either. –Connie

Peace —–Kristin (I would’ve replied to her in e-mail, but the address is something like this thread, so I may be putting the wrong person with the wrong e-mail address. One had a legit e-mail, and the other had one like what I wrote.)

Response:

Kristin wrote, in response to Butterflies: [spoilering] * * * * * * * * * I am a Christian.  My beliefs conflict strongly with the way I am living my life due to the eating disorder. I’m also a Christian.

I know this will probably come across as flaming, but….gonna say it, anyway.   Right here is a problematic situation.  What, exactly, is YOUR definition of "Christian?" I have the feeling that it eliminates or disregards many of the others in the world who are also "Christian," i.e., Roman Catholic and no doubt Protestant faiths other than whatever your particular (perhaps not as mainstream?) one is? I am not trying to start an argument, but am just pointing out something. This is where things can get real touchy and sensitive and so on, and a really good reason why it might be better to leave the religious discussions off the newsgroup.  This is a secular newsgroup, not a religious one. We have people of all faiths on this newsgroup: Jewish, Muslim, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Greek Catholic, Mormon, various Protestant sects, WIccans, and atheists.  As has been mentioned before, some people have been seriously affected by religious practices inflicted upon them, another good reason to hesitate before getting too deeply into religious discussions here, spoilered or not. It’s too easy to push hot buttons here. Let’s be careful, huh?   Religion and the other major hot button, politics, are maybe subjects which should be addressed elsewhere in forums specifically prepared to discuss them…. Spirituality, in general, doesn’t seem to raise as many hackles as specific expression of religiosity does.  Maybe we could look at this  in terms of spirituality as opposed to a particular church’s preachings?  Or go into email for further in-depth discussions? As I mentioned earlier, there is at least one mailing list which does focus upon EDs and religious beliefs…. worth checking into, I would guess! Just some thoughts here… –Connie — "Starving the flesh wastes the spirit." –Kandis Elliot

Response:

Hi, Keeping in the spoiler. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This has a spoiler for talk of religion.  I’m not trying to convert anybody here, but someone might be triggered, so here goes… * * * * * * * * * I am a Christian.  My beliefs conflict strongly with the way I am living my life due to the eating disorder.

I’m also a Christian. I feel that I am very selfish, for one.  I want things my way when it comes to food (and so much of life revolves around food).

Yeah, me too.  I want to be able to eat whatever I want, however I want, whenever I want, etc., and still look like a runway model (well, almost.  You get the point).  Unfortunately, even if I had the most perfectly balanced diet, etc., I’d never look the way I want to.  That bites.  I have made other people suffer through my food crises and have made things generally difficult for those around me.  I have had "tantrums" in restaurants, upset my mother to the point of tears over a simple dinner, and made everybody else wait on their food while I tried in vain to decide what to order.  Ordering meant, of course, getting something that could be perceived as low-cal (although in a restaurant, I’m sure I was fooling myself!) and that hopefully was edible.

I never really had the tantrums, but I understand the tears.  Mine are usually not out in public, but sometimes a friend is around when I go into my "I don’t want to eat.  I can’t have x or y." cry-fest.  Friends have suffered indirectly by me getting sick on them, or them worrying when I go into cardiac arrythmia. I am also deliberately destroying my body.  It says in the Bible (yes, I’m going to quote Scripture here.  I guess I’ll use another spoiler, just in case.)…

So am I.  Oftentimes, I feel like I shouldn’t exist.  Right now is one of those times.  Am having a hard time right now, but am not going into detail. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -* * * * * * Okay.  First Corinthians, chapter 6 verses 19-20, says "…know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s." Obviously, if my body is the temple of God, I should be taking better care of it.  I consider the malicious destruction of a church a heinous crime, because the church is the house of God.  But my body is a temple for God, yet I do things that I know are hurting my body.

No argument here.  I agree with you. And to glorify God in my spirit?  Well, obsessing over weight and food all the time is not exactly glorifying God in any way.  I have even prayed that God will help me to purge, that He’ll allow a certain hard-to-find binge food to be in the grocery store that night.  I have actually asked Him these things!  Shameful.

I think all of us (okay, this is a generalization, forgive me) have done that from time to time.  You’re right.  Obsessing over anything does not glorify God.  In fact, it’s destructive.  Charlotte, on many occasions, has stated that I’m being consumed by my ed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Bible is also clear when it says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."  (Exodus 20:3)  I will not deny that I have made all of the ED things "gods before me" many times:  the food, weight, exercise, bingeing, purging, starving, craving, etc.  Sometimes the only thing that gets me through the day is the high of starving myself and overexercising or the high of a good binge and purge. The Bible also says, "I laid me down and slept;  I awaked;  for the Lord sustained me," (Psalms 3:5) and "Therefore take no thought, saying, ‘What shall we eat?  or, What shall we drink? or, Where withal shall we be clothed?’  (For all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you."  (Matthew 6:31-33).  In other words, *don’t worry about it,* God is saying, *I’ll* take care of you.  And yet I have made it a priority in my life to manipulate food and exercise so that my ED will be served, not the will of God.  I’m not trusting Him to take care of me;  I’m trying to do it all myself.  The way I want it done.

I’m in the same boat here. How do I reconcile with that?  Surely there are other Christians out there who have had these same questions.  And perhaps people of other religions have had conflicts between their religious beliefs and their ED behaviours.

I think there are many people that have had a hard time reconciling these things.  I have a book called "Beyond the Looking Glass", which is a book of daily meditations. It’s execellent.  I’ve shared some of the meditations with Charlotte.  She thinks it’s a great resource.  It’s published by Gurze books (www.gurze.com).  I may even get "Body Prayers" (another daily meditation book), and "Thin Enough", which is a spiritual look at eds (Christian philosophy).  All 3 are in the Gurze catalogue. I know I need to pray more and read the Bible more.  The problem is, it’s a sort of vicious cycle.  I probably wasn’t close enough to God at age 14, when I began anorexia, so I turned to an ED instead of my all-powerful God for help getting through tough times.  The ED then led me away from God, feeding me lies and making me get all caught up in myself.  Now, it’s hard to turn everything (anything!) over to God.  I don’t even know how.  I’ve tried before, I’ve said, "Lord, I can’t handle this.  Please take it out of my  hands."  But I don’t know how to actually surrender myself and the ED to Him completely.

Little by little, day by day.  I feel God doesn’t ask of us more than we can do.  He’ll help increase what we can do, but he doesn’t expect the whole "sha-bang" all at once.  Baby steps.  One day at a time (as Ears puts it). I don’t expect an overnight miracle-cure from God.  I believe He’s capable of it, but I also believe there’s a reason I’m going through all of this.  It’s going to take time to heal.  But in the meantime, how do I deal with the guilt?  The guilt is so hard to bear.  It’s probably the hardest part of the whole thing;  guilt that I’m hurting my body, that I’m not putting God number one in my life, that I’m being deceitful and wasteful with bulimia, etc.

Same here.  I get frustrated because I know God could "sweep down" and fix it, but doesn’t.  Sometimes it makes me very angry.  Right now, I’m really hashing it out with God about my body.  I’m really angry at God right now, and that’s okay.  God can handle it. Sometimes I wonder, "How can I call myself a Christian when this is how I act repeatedly?"  Not just once have I binged and purged;  He’d forgive me for that.  But will He forgive when it’s my entire lifestyle and I persist in allowing it to continue?

Pobody’s Nerfect!  Yes, I meant to write it like that.  I saw it on a poster that way, and it stuck.  God will forgive whatever you ask him/her to forgive. Along with that, ask for help and guidance to do better, be stronger next time.  Rome wasn’t built in a day, and recovery isn’t achieved in a day either. If anybody has any thoughts on this, or any other pertinent Bible verses (I quote scripture because it’s the word of God and you can’t get much better than that), I’d love to hear them.  I need some help and direction in this. Unfortunately, my social phobia inhibits my going to church regularly, and to talk to a pastor would be very difficult for me.  I would love to get some Christian eating-disorder counseling, and Focus on the Family highly recommended Remuda Ranch.  (Piper, I know you talked about finding God while you were there.  Maybe you have some input?)  I need spiritual as well as physical and emotional nurturing, but I’m not sure I’m ready to travel across the country to go inpatient.

The support group sounds good.  Charlotte is one of my pastors (her husband is also a pastor at my church).  Is your reluctance to talk with a pastor more of reluctance to talk with a male pastor, or is it something else.  There are good female pastors and councelors out there, if you think that would help.  Take things slowly, and don’t set too high goals at first.  Or, set a high goal, and set mini-goals to achieve along the way toward the high goal. Please, if you could think about this and pray for me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Will do!  Could you do the same for me? Love, Butterflies

——Kristin

Response:

I would be happy to converse via e-mail if you want to take this conversation off-line and it is considered inappropriate for here although I certainly can