Question:
John, my brother in our beloved Jesus Christ,do not bother yourself with this ape in lions clothing. He is hopeless and helpless. Let us concentrate on the simplicity that is in Christ and further the Gospel of redemption and salvation and not enter into their petty infantile arguments. There are millions of people parishing everyday who need to hear the Good News. Let us not waste this precious time on fools and unteachable lost souls. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
attacks and bs. IDon’tKnowShit admonishes another brother about to whom to preach the "Good News". Tell me IDon’tKNowShit, do you ever follow your own advice, as worthless as it might be?
Response:
John, my brother in our beloved Jesus Christ,do not bother yourself with this ape in lions clothing. He is hopeless and helpless. Let us concentrate on the simplicity that is in Christ and further the Gospel of redemption and salvation and not enter into their petty infantile arguments.
Better yet, avoid this devil of wilful ignorance. He is infected with a plague of hatred which he is trying to spread in God’s name. There are millions of people parishing everyday who need to hear the Good News. Let us not waste this precious time on fools and unteachable lost souls.
And you, of course, will waste our time with your lies and hatred, so as to ensure that nobody hears the good news that Jesus Christ came to SAVE us from sin, not permit us to wallow in it as you wish to do. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
Yes….and a man who wishes to sin will do so even though he sees it as expedient to pretend that he has repented. You don’t even bother to do that. You just SAY you’ve repented and then lie again in the next breath. Why should anyone believe one word you say about anything? Give me any GOOD reason to do so? — Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, my brother in our beloved Jesus Christ,do not bother yourself with this ape in lions clothing. He is hopeless and helpless. Let us concentrate on the simplicity that is in Christ and further the Gospel of redemption and salvation and not enter into their petty infantile arguments. There are millions of people parishing everyday who need to hear the Good News. Let us not waste this precious time on fools and unteachable lost souls. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. attacks and bs. IDon’tKnowShit admonishes another brother about to whom to preach the "Good News". Tell me IDon’tKNowShit, do you ever follow your own advice, as worthless as it might be?
Of course not. He’s totally and utterly devoted to his demon of hypocrisy. — Dave Oldridge+ ICQ 1800667 A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes The Message from the Bible Much of the Bible is testable in terms of history, science, Did you know, IKH, that there is meteorology (weather forecasting) in the Bible? IF you don’t know where it is, ask.) 
and archeology Yep. And for those who don’t believe that, there are HUNDREDS of cities and town mentioned in the Bible that are, in "reality" right where scripture puts them. And a number of "lost cities" have been found by tracing their "whereabouts" via scripture. Jericho is one such city. It was "lost" for YEARS, as in CENTURIES, until some enterprising archaeologists calculated its approximate location with scripture. Wa La! When they took God’s Word seriously, and not as "mere myth", a "collection of fairy tales", they found what they were looking for. Yep, and both Jericho and the city of Ai were already in rubble when the Israelites encountered them. That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact! The biblical stories of Joshua’s conquest of both cities is pure myth! That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact. IOW, you believe those archaeologists who agree with you and disagree with those who show proof you don’t want to see. Always beware when fundies use "IOW". Your "fundies" is DELIBERATELY derogatory! Reduced to ad hominem attacks already?
Just stating a fact John, when a fundie uses "IOW" he is preparing to change the meaning of the other person’s argument. No "ad hominem", just a fact. They only use this because they can’t give an answer to the statement, as presented. I re-read the post. I gave as much info as you did. And I wouldn’t waste my time giving you anymore because you are one of many I have encountered who is only interested in those facts that support your own biases.
Then why use "IOW"? I am not questioning how much "info" is in a post. If you can’t answer a post as given, then don’t answer it at all. "IOW" is nothing more than a crutch for those with weak arguments. I know this because in my 20 + years as a tech writer in a wide variety of scientific environments and applications, I found myself in the position of witnessing to MANY (like 25 to 50) "scientists" who were atheist evolutionists.
John, you’re such a liar that it is a joke. Did you know that? Every time You make a post everyone says "here John goes again". I offered them all proof both for God and for creation. NONE was interested, but a few "listened politely." THEN expressed total non-interest.
I certainly hope you offered them more proof than you have offered around here. They all explained that they would not look at my data because they were not interested in any hard evidence for God’s being.
Bullshit! There is no hard evidence that your god or any other god exists. That is not science; that is the "religion" of pseudo-science.
Oh, but it is science. Science doesn’t deal in the supernatural. Been there, done that, know better than you do.
John, the only thing you know better than I do, is how to lie and you are an expert at that. Say Liar John, is your neighbor still making that a-bomb in his garage ? Even when I proved to a dozen of them that scientifically, there was / is NO concrete evidence for evolution, they said, "Well, I prefer atheism, I prefer to not believe in God, so I am left with evolution."
LOL. Really John, is that what they actually said? Sounds to me like you’re only wishing what you had told them, am I correct? "I prefer…" is a statement of a CHOICE to believe/not believe. When one chooses to not believe, that is called "religion", or a statement of "faith" on some level.
It is? Whose definition are you using now? When you actually talk to a real person who says that let me know. Until then don’t try to dazzle me with your bullshit! I know it, and whether you are man enough or have enough character to admit it (neither is true), you know I am right.
I am man enough to call you a liar and if a person wants to ‘google’ your posts it won’t take them long to come to the same conclusion. You cannot prove unequivocally that there is no God.
Nope, never said that I could. I can prove the STRONG likelihood that there is.
Nope, you can’t do that either. It is like this John, I can’t prove that there is no god, whose attributes that I don’t know. When the god that you are defending has his attributes shown in a book called the bible, I can show that those attributes and actions either aren’t those attributed to an omnipotent, omniscient deity. I can also show that the actions attributed to this god didn’t occur as stated in this book. Again, I won’t bother, but don’t believe for one nano-second that you are fooling me.
Fooling you about what John? You come along here two weeks after I made a post and rant and rave as if you had just discovered something that would threaten your existence. No John, I go with all of the mainline scholars "Mainline scholars" do not agree with one another.
There might be a few that don’t John but the vast majority of them do. I’ve heard some 20 different theories of evolution. All in MAJOR and BASIC, ESSENTIL conflict with one another on NUMEROUS issues. The ONLY issue on which "most " are "unanimous" is that "God didn’t do it!"
Well Liar John, this post wasn’t about evolution. Stick to the post John, you can’t defend you position from one attack at a time. Gee, I guess you need to talk to Dr. Kenneth Miller of Brown University, on of the leading proponents of evolution and a Christian and tell him that he is wrong. The subject of my mainline scholar comments didn’t concern evolution. If you wouldn’t clip the post to which you are replying the folks could see your duplicity. That tells anyone with a mind that the issue is refusal to believe, not lack of evidence. And your definition of "mainline scholars" simply refers to those who share your perverted biases.
You mean the scientists who actually have studied in the field and have spent their lives working in their field of expertise???? Those "mainline scholars" John? They support the hypothesis that has the best evidence for it. If that is what you mean by my support of mainline scholars, I’ll have to agree with you. who say that Jericho had no walls at the supposed time of the conquest and not only did it not have walls it was already in ruins. Again, none of us were there. Speculation. And the scientific reasons for proving such speculation are so basic, so common sense, that you embarrass yourself.
Oh, the old "none of us were there" routine, huh? What the hell are you talking about John? I didn’t give any scientific reasons for this fact, and I know that you don’t know of any scientific reasons, so what are you attempting to say, John? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." How sad that some of you only "read" the Bible looking for "mistakes. It is even sadder that you are unable to see these ""contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." I have found MANY of the "errors" you would list. I have, as a student of apologetics, studied NUMEROUS of those "questions." When you and your 10,000 "scientists" raise the exact same issues, that says something: It says that you look for PROBLEMS, and NOT their SOLUTIONS!!!
John, you make arguing with you so easy. In the first place most scientists don’t read the bible and those that do aren’t looking for errors and contradictions. You seem to get confused over the definitions of those with whom you fight. In the second place, if "10,000 scientists" all see the same issue then there must be a problem! I received a 3′ thick book that "documented" the "problems" with the Bible some 30 years ago, and I read about 5 chapters, laughing as I went. A first year seminary student could BURY you.
Most first year seminary students in these days don’t read the bible as the literal truth. You should have laughed your way through the rest of the three inches. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I sat down as part of my
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Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." Hmm.. I’ve found a couple: Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) This is no problem. You’re WAY too easy, and I didn’t even have to look it up. LOL!! I suppose you being such a brilliant Bible scholar, and all, you are not aware that God uses Satan to do His bidding. Just like your god used Satan to trick Adam and Eve, dooming most of mankind to eternal suffering? Wow… that really inspires me to want to worship him. both (a) and (b) would be correct in the "problem" above. And you bore me, so I will stop here. I’m sure that if my religion (if I had one) was chock full of inconsistencies and blatant contradictions, I’d probably get tired of people pointing them out to me, too. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) This is no problem. You’re WAY too easy, and I didn’t even have to look it up. LOL!! I suppose you being such a brilliant Bible scholar, and all, you are not aware that God uses Satan to do His bidding.
HOW DARE YOU PROFANE THE WORD OF ALMIGHTY GOD. You know nothing of His ways, hypocrite, David counted the number of Israel and Judah TWICE, or are you so deceived and blinded by your father Satan you cannot see truth before you? Neither of you seem to know why the genealogy is in the Bible, it’s there so mistakes like this don’t happen, start over and this time read James 1 :5 first, then 2 Sam. 23. God does not use Satan, however, He does let him do certain things read Job. Peter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." Hmm.. I’ve found a couple: Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) This is no problem. You’re WAY too easy, and I didn’t even have to look it up. LOL!! I suppose you being such a brilliant Bible scholar, and all, you are not aware that God uses Satan to do His bidding.
Just like your god used Satan to trick Adam and Eve, dooming most of mankind to eternal suffering? Wow… that really inspires me to want to worship him. both (a) and (b) would be correct in the "problem" above. And you bore me, so I will stop here.
I’m sure that if my religion (if I had one) was chock full of inconsistencies and blatant contradictions, I’d probably get tired of people pointing them out to me, too.
Response:
assumed it had done something worth noting. maybe compared to his usual standards he did, from its pov. follow up set, if any one wants jw from this portion of the thread, join it in the Baptist group. It needs the company. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." Hmm.. I’ve found a couple: Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) This is no problem. You’re WAY too easy, and I didn’t even have to look it up. LOL!!
Pity, as usual, you elect to display your ignorance of your myth. You do not even know what a satan is in the context of the above cited verses. But them,it is unlikely you even know who wrote them, when, or the time frame covered. I suppose you being such a brilliant Bible scholar, and all, you are not aware that God uses Satan to do His bidding.
& being the ignorant pompous ass you are with your incessant braying, you do not even know what a satan is. both (a) and (b) would be correct in the "problem" above.
No, they are not. for a census is IAW the desires of Yahweh, as per the information found in Jewish mythology. Which,, being as ignorant as you are, you can’t comprehend. The following is from your parent ,myth, the Jewish one. God in His love for Israel had frequent censuses taken of them, so that He might accurately estimate His possession. In scarcely half a year they were twice counted, once shortly before the erection of the Tabernacle, and the second time a month after its dedication. On the first day of the month of Iyyar, Moses received instructions to take a census of all men over twenty who were physically fit to go to war. He was ordered to take Aaron as his assistant, so that in case he should overlook some of the men Aaron might remind him of them, for "two are better than one." They were also to take as their subordinate assistants Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron’s sons, and a man each from the several tribes. These twelve men were appointed not only to conduct the census, but also to look after the spiritual welfare of their respective tribes, the sins of which would be upon their heads unless, with all their powers, they strove to prevent them. Moses and Aaron nevertheless adjured the princes of the tribes, in spite of their high rank, not to tyrannize over the people, whereas, on the other hand, they admonished the people to pay all due respect to their superiors. The names of these twelve princes of the tribes indicated the history of the tribes they represented. The prince of the tribe Reuben was called Elizur, "my God is a rock," referring to the ancestor of this tribe, Reuben, Jacob’s son, who sinned, but, owing to his penance, was forgiven by God, who bore his sin as a rock bears the house built upon it. The name of Elizur’s father was Shedeur, "cast into the fire," because Reuben was converted to repentance and atonement through Judah, who confessed his sin when his daughter-in-law Tamar was about to be cast into the fire. The prince of the tribe of Simeon was named Shelumiel, "my God is peace," to indicate that in spite of the sin of Zimri, head of this tribe, through whom four and twenty thousand men among Israel died, God nevertheless made peace with this tribe. And you bore me, so I will stop here.
Amazing, a one neuron mind being bored when it proves it is truly as ignorant as many have known it to be. You are toooooooo easy.
Yes, you are. But then, no one refers to you as a mental midget, more like a mental amoeba. jw
John the whiner? snip. I can type too.
Well, yes, they make this stylus thing for paraplegics, but I suppose were one in a straight jacket it still could be used. It would appear so based on your ability to *type*. walksalone who doubts jw has any training in using his mind based on its posts. — The Hadith Qudsi 6 The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied – you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." Hmm.. I’ve found a couple: Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) This is no problem. You’re WAY too easy, and I didn’t even have to look it up. LOL!! I suppose you being such a brilliant Bible scholar, and all, you are not aware that God uses Satan to do His bidding. both (a) and (b) would be correct in the "problem" above. And you bore me, so I will stop here. You are toooooooo easy. jw snip. I can type too.
Wow John, you really showed him. He’ll never show another discrepancy after the thrashing you just gave him )))). Better that, however, than another apologetic full of assumptions and speculations such as the Judas apologetic .
Response:
John, my brother in our beloved Jesus Christ,do not bother yourself with this ape in lions clothing. He is hopeless and helpless. Let us concentrate on the simplicity that is in Christ and further the Gospel of redemption and salvation and not enter into their petty infantile arguments. There are millions of people parishing everyday who need to hear the Good News. Let us not waste this precious time on fools and unteachable lost souls. A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes The Message from the Bible Much of the Bible is testable in terms of history, science, Did you know, IKH, that there is meteorology (weather forecasting) in the Bible? IF you don’t know where it is, ask.) and archeology Yep. And for those who don’t believe that, there are HUNDREDS of cities and town mentioned in the Bible that are, in "reality" right where scripture puts them. And a number of "lost cities" have been found by tracing their "whereabouts" via scripture. Jericho is one such city. It was "lost" for YEARS, as in CENTURIES, until some enterprising archaeologists calculated its approximate location with scripture. Wa La! When they took God’s Word seriously, and not as "mere myth", a "collection of fairy tales", they found what they were looking for. Yep, and both Jericho and the city of Ai were already in rubble when the Israelites encountered them. That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact! The biblical stories of Joshua’s conquest of both cities is pure myth! That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact. IOW, you believe those archaeologists who agree with you and disagree with those who show proof you don’t want to see. Always beware when fundies use "IOW". Your "fundies" is DELIBERATELY derogatory! Reduced to ad hominem attacks already? They only use this because they can’t give an answer to the statement, as presented. I re-read the post. I gave as much info as you did. And I wouldn’t waste my time giving you anymore because you are one of many I have encountered who is only interested in those facts that support your own biases. I know this because in my 20 + years as a tech writer in a wide variety of scientific environments and applications, I found myself in the position of witnessing to MANY (like 25 to 50) "scientists" who were atheist evolutionists. I offered them all proof both for God and for creation. NONE was interested, but a few "listened politely." THEN expressed total non-interest. They all explained that they would not look at my data because they were not interested in any hard evidence for God’s being. That is not science; that is the "religion" of pseudo-science. Been there, done that, know better than you do. Even when I proved to a dozen of them that scientifically, there was / is NO concrete evidence for evolution, they said, "Well, I prefer atheism, I prefer to not believe in God, so I am left with evolution." "I prefer…" is a statement of a CHOICE to believe/not believe. When one chooses to not believe, that is called "religion", or a statement of "faith" on some level. I know it, and whether you are man enough or have enough character to admit it (neither is true), you know I am right. You cannot prove unequivocally that there is no God. I can prove the STRONG likelihood that there is. Again, I won’t bother, but don’t believe for one nano-second that you are fooling me. No John, I go with all of the mainline scholars "Mainline scholars" do not agree with one another. I’ve heard some 20 different theories of evolution. All in MAJOR and BASIC, ESSENTIL conflict with one another on NUMEROUS issues. The ONLY issue on which "most " are "unanimous" is that "God didn’t do it!" That tells anyone with a mind that the issue is refusal to believe, not lack of evidence. And your definition of "mainline scholars" simply refers to those who share your perverted biases. who say that Jericho had no walls at the supposed time of the conquest and not only did it not have walls it was already in ruins. Again, none of us were there. Speculation. And the scientific reasons for proving such speculation are so basic, so common sense, that you embarrass yourself. Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." How sad that some of you only "read" the Bible looking for "mistakes. It is even sadder that you are unable to see these ""contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." I have found MANY of the "errors" you would list. I have, as a student of apologetics, studied NUMEROUS of those "questions." When you and your 10,000 "scientists" raise the exact same issues, that says something: It says that you look for PROBLEMS, and NOT their SOLUTIONS!!! I received a 3′ thick book that "documented" the "problems" with the Bible some 30 years ago, and I read about 5 chapters, laughing as I went. A first year seminary student could BURY you. I sat down as part of my seminary training and evaluated some 5 chapters of "problems". Only as MY study, I read and re-read and re-read and cross-referenced for HOURS and prayed over the "problems" and each one I took up solved itself with DEEP Bible study. This is not "self-hypnosis." This is SERIOUS study, rather than merely looking for flimsy reasons to not believe. If you don’t want to believe, don’t. But don’t say the Bible is the problem. The problem is your complete lack of interest in the subject matter. I am not the only one who doesn’t see errors. BOOKs have been written on both sides. Yes they have and it is an indictment against you that you can’t find these even when they are shown to you. How many HOURS have YOU spent studying ONE "problem" until you found the solution in the Bible? Until you can say you have spent a WEEK studying one passage until it unraveled, don’t talk to me about "mistakes." The scholars I am talking about are men who have collectively spent CENTURIES, MILLENNIUMS, solving the "problems" you point at. I am not saying that there are not "apparent’ problems. But if you don’t LOOK for the "needle in the haystack" I GUARANTEE you you will never find it. The scholars I am talking about HAVE looked for the needle, and found it. You never BOTHERED. You are NO Bible scholar, sir. I may not be a Ph Dd theologian; but I AM a SERIOUS Bible scholar (meaning "student.") I have spent over 40 years in SERIOUS Bible study. Have YOU? IF not, then DO NOT tell me what it says. When you SKIM the Bible looking for ""contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." you will believe you have found them. Yet when you spend the hours I have spent unraveling numerous "errors", I found that they weren’t "errors" at all, but only APPEARED to be "errors" to those who read superficially. You mean that after you thought of enough fairy tales to "reconcile" these discrepancies. Do not speak for me. Speak for you. The only thing sadder about the errors in the bible are the efforts by fundamentalists to cover these errors. The only thing sadder than your ignorant arrogance is the fact that you dangle over the pit and don’t even wonder about the heat source. I really enjoy the apologetics concerning the different ways that Judas died. What a joke! Each author of that account recorded one part of it. What is the problem with that? AGAIN, did you MERELY see what you thought was a conflict? Stopped and had a good LOL! And then moved on to another "problem?" Or did you BOTHER to take some time, a day or so, study the passages in detail, and TRY to resolve them? I did, and I did. 1. If you believe that each author merely was supposed to write a carbon copy of the story the other
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Response:
left the following mess. BTW jw, I am sure you would want Tom to be able to see the following, so I put his home group back in the headers, & included it in the follow ups. After all, you have been known to post empty messages to people & pretend you have done something. After all, you have been working on your effort since the second. follow up set to droll trolls captive group, the Baptist one should anyone really want to talk at it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.netfront.net!HSNX.atgi.net!falcon.america.net!tdsnet-transit!newspeer. tds.net!newspeer.radix.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu! sn-xit-03!sn-xit-08!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mai l Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religi on.christianity,alt.religion,christian.roman-catholic Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 375 Xref: news.netfront.net alt.religion.christian.baptist:372625 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:169140 alt.religion.christianity:92886 alt.religion:55811 x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group)
snip one. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact. IOW, you believe those archaeologists who agree with you and disagree with those who show proof you don’t want to see. Always beware when fundies use "IOW". Your "fundies" is DELIBERATELY derogatory! Reduced to ad hominem
That is because fundies, by definition is a repugnant word used to describe people that believe so hard they can deny evidence & facts. In your case it is not an ad hominum for you have admitted it in the past [before your great erasure spree when your porn & other embarrassing moments were removed by you from google], it is a simple acceptance of the truth. attacks already?
No, Tom laves those for you, it is the best you can do. They only use this because they can’t give an answer to the statement, as presented. I re-read the post. I gave as much info as you did. And I wouldn’t waste my time giving you anymore because you are one of many I have
You can’t waste your time, because you have nothing in the way of evidence. For you this is expected, for you are the queen of assertions & assumptions. encountered who is only interested in those facts that support your own biases.
You saying that like you, Tom & others can not be persuaded by facts then. You must really enjoy trying to denigrate others, or trying to drag them down to your level. I know this because in my 20 + years as a tech writer in a wide variety of scientific environments and applications, I found myself in the position of witnessing to MANY (like 25 to 50) "scientists" who were atheist evolutionists. I offered them all proof both for God and for creation. NONE was interested, but a few "listened politely." THEN expressed total non-interest.
Because they already know that you had nothing to say, & knowing you, you were beating your gums on company time. Fantasy is for off time, not company time. They all explained that they would not look at my data because they were not interested in any hard evidence for God’s being.
Bullshit, but then,. that’s all you have. You can not, not have you provided hard evidence for any gods from any pantheon, including yours. That is not science; that is the "religion" of pseudo-science.
That s science, it does not worry abut the metaphysical, just things it can work with. Been there, done that, know better than you do.
No, that you have not, even though you lie & claim you have. Even when I proved to a dozen of them that scientifically, there was is NO concrete evidence for evolution, they said, "Well, I prefer atheism, I prefer to not believe in God, so I am left with evolution."
Bullshit again, but then, if it were not you could provide names & dates & locations. Such facts are always missing from the important tripe you post. "I prefer…" is a statement of a CHOICE to believe/not believe. When one chooses to not believe, that is called "religion", or a statement of "faith" on some level.
Only in the minds of the deluded, like you show yourself to be. I know it, and whether you are man enough or have enough character to admit it (neither is true), you know I am right.
I know you are wrong, but that ]has never stopped you from pretending otherwise. You cannot prove unequivocally that there is no God. I can prove the STRONG likelihood that there is. Again, I won’t bother, but don’t believe for one nano-second that you are fooling me.
You can not even discuss your myths history, so you can not show cause as why a god is even needed beyond your personal limitations. Tom, I am going to snip a lot here, 375 lines is a bit excessive, even for the Baptist group. snip Holding an advanced degree is certainly not an indicator of being a scholar in the bible although they should know more than the average person. I didn’t say "an advanced degree." I said MULTIPLLE advanced degrees. I have not had one single pastor in 50 years who didn’t have Ph Ds, Th Ds, MM Ds, M Divs, LLDs, D Mins.
IOW, you had pastors that had no scholarly basis, but degrees. That is a LOT of school. And all were scholars who know/knew the languages well enough to translate the translations we use today. I can look through virtually any Bible’s intro and find 2 or 3 translator/scholars I know.
But do they know you? These men are not ignorant, uneducated, biased, superstitious, or closed-minded. You are all of the above. Gee John, that is almost a compliment coming from you . I think we are done. The game you are playing is that, no matter WHAT I say, "You are right; I am a blithering idiot."
But you are a blithering idiot according to your posts. You show no evidence for the training you have claimed, you show no evidence or understanding your myth or its history, you do not use supportable claims, simply whine the same song of ignorance time after time. You’re counted on to appeal to non-existent authority, circular logic, appeals top popularity, special pleading, & all the other little tricks apologetics use. & you perform them so well, one would think you had applied for the job of a trained seal. IOW, you respond like any other rote trained animal. I don’t play such childish pissing games.
Yes, that you do. It is your trademark. Whine, piss & moan, wring your hands, & then pretend to be offended as you slink away screaming I win over your shoulder. jw snipped the rest of the kindergarten ad hominem attacks and bs.
You removed some of your post then, very good jw. walksalone who suspects that where jw is involved, the above dishonesty is as good as it gets. — The Hadith Qudsi 6 The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied – you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
Response:
The Message from the Bible Much of the Bible is testable in terms of history, science, and archeology
Except the most important part where Jesus enters the scene for which there is ZERO historical record. but is is primarily the revealed message from our Creator that spans all cultures, backgrounds, languages and times.
Revealed to certain people and you can benifit for a price of course. The message is this: God, the everlasting omnipotent,omniscient, omnipresent, transcendent Cretor of the universe, designed and created two beings to bear His image and have eternal fellowship with Him(Gen 1:28). These beings were charged with stewardship dominion over the earth and told to fill the earth with their children. That first human pair, created in perfection and in harmony with all that the Creator designed , dared to rebel against His authority and embrace another "truth"(Gen 3).
Here we have a summary of the pschycosis known as religion. A god that would not create a human without freewill because they would have no choice but punnished those humans for using their free will. Hmmm. The consequence The consequence of that rebellion is that mankind-including you and me- are born into this universe as sinners under God’s condemnation.
here is another conundrum of the great just one in the sky. Since when is justice served by blaming others for the sins of some one else, as though eating apples is sin. That is a frightening set of conditions! However, there is hope and promise. The Old Testament describes the awful plight of the condemned sinner and promises the eventual coming of a Redeemer who will buy back the rebels from their enslavement and condemnation of sin. God loves His created beings(John 3:16), in spite of their rebellion, and has done the only thing possible to provide a means of satisfying His rightous judgement and rescuing us from an eternity of death.
the only thing possible? how about creating us free from sin? Or is that only good enough for his firstborn. The New Testament illustrates the beautiful fullment of the Old Testament promises in the presentation of God’s only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ who came as a mere babe, suffered on a cruel cros and died, was buried dead and three days and three nights later arose to new life, thereby paying for our sin and giving us the choice to believe in Him and have eternal life with Him.
Believe in me or die, now thats love. No human being could ever come up with this marvallous solution even if they could.
Oh shit brother, you don’t know Pagan religion, check it out. Nothing in Christianity is original. There are 16 crucified saviours from history. Dusty
Response:
I’d rather hear more about your porno incident. Care to tell everyone about it? DW Suiter Son of God
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes So Bill, tell us again why you hang out in a Christian newsgroup when you hate God, don’t believe what scriptures say. Give your reasoning other than to be disruptive and argumentative with your self created delusions. And kindly explain to us why YOU are here, David, except to separate and devour the uninformed? jw DW Suiter Son of God x-no-archive: yes The Message from the Bible Much of the Bible is testable in terms of history, science, Did you know, IKH, that there is meteorology (weather forecasting) in the Bible? IF you don’t know where it is, ask.) and archeology Yep. And for those who don’t believe that, there are HUNDREDS of cities and town mentioned in the Bible that are, in "reality" right where scripture puts them. And a number of "lost cities" have been found by tracing their "whereabouts" via scripture. Jericho is one such city. It was "lost" for YEARS, as in CENTURIES, until some enterprising archaeologists calculated its approximate location with scripture. Wa La! When they took God’s Word seriously, and not as "mere myth", a "collection of fairy tales", they found what they were looking for. Yep, and both Jericho and the city of Ai were already in rubble when the Israelites encountered them. The biblical stories of Joshua’s conquest of both cities is pure myth! Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. but is is primarily the revealed message from our Creator that spans all cultures, backgrounds, languages and times. The message is this: God, the everlasting omnipotent,omniscient, omnipresent, transcendent Cretor of the universe, designed and created two beings to bear His image and have eternal fellowship with Him(Gen 1:28). These beings were charged with stewardship dominion over the earth and told to fill the earth with their children. That first human pair, created in perfection and in harmony with all that the Creator designed , dared to rebel against His authority and embrace another "truth"(Gen 3). The consequence The consequence of that rebellion is that mankind-including you and me- are born into this universe as sinners under God’s condemnation. That is a frightening set of conditions! However, there is hope and promise. The Old Testament describes the awful plight of the condemned sinner and promises the eventual coming of a Redeemer who will buy back the rebels from their enslavement and condemnation of sin. God loves His created beings(John 3:16), in spite of their rebellion, and has done the only thing possible to provide a means of satisfying His rightous judgement and rescuing us from an eternity of death. The New Testament illustrates the beautiful fullment of the Old Testament promises in the presentation of God’s only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ who came as a mere babe, suffered on a cruel cros and died, was buried dead and three days and three nights later arose to new life, thereby paying for our sin and giving us the choice to believe in Him and have eternal life with Him. No human being could ever come up with this marvallous solution even if they could. Have you ever considered being a preacher/evangelist/apologist? O m’gosh, don’t foster IKHDY on anyone else, please! He’s the worst liar for Jesus on these newsgroups, and I wouldn’t sic him on my worst enemy! Shalom, Bill 
jw
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes The Message from the Bible Much of the Bible is testable in terms of history, science, Did you know, IKH, that there is meteorology (weather forecasting) in the Bible? IF you don’t know where it is, ask.) and archeology Yep. And for those who don’t believe that, there are HUNDREDS of cities and town mentioned in the Bible that are, in "reality" right where scripture puts them. And a number of "lost cities" have been found by tracing their "whereabouts" via scripture. Jericho is one such city. It was "lost" for YEARS, as in CENTURIES, until some enterprising archaeologists calculated its approximate location with scripture. Wa La! When they took God’s Word seriously, and not as "mere myth", a "collection of fairy tales", they found what they were looking for. Yep, and both Jericho and the city of Ai were already in rubble when the Israelites encountered them. That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact! The biblical stories of Joshua’s conquest of both cities is pure myth! That is pure speculation. No John, that is a verifiable archeological fact. IOW, you believe those archaeologists who agree with you and disagree with those who show proof you don’t want to see.
Always beware when fundies use "IOW". They only use this because they can’t give an answer to the statement, as presented. No John, I go with all of the mainline scholars who say that Jericho had no walls at the supposed time of the conquest and not only did it not have walls it was already in ruins. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." How sad that some of you only "read" the Bible looking for "mistakes. It is even sadder that you are unable to see these ""contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." I am not the only one who doesn’t see errors. BOOKs have been written on both sides.
Yes they have and it is an indictment against you that you can’t find these even when they are shown to you. When you SKIM the Bible looking for ""contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors." you will believe you have found them. Yet when you spend the hours I have spent unraveling numerous "errors", I found that they weren’t "errors" at all, but only APPEARED to be "errors" to those who read superficially.
You mean that after you thought of enough fairy tales to "reconcile" these discrepancies. The only thing sadder about the errors in the bible are the efforts by fundamentalists to cover these errors. I really enjoy the apologetics concerning the different ways that Judas died. What a joke! Which scholars can’t see these mistakes of the bible. From what fundamentalist church did you find them? As I’ve said a number of times, in my 50 + years of being a Christian, I have YET to belong to a church that didn’t have a Ph D, Th D, pastor, assistant pator/associate pastor.
Do you only attend fundamentalist churches?? Holding an advanced degree is certainly not an indicator of being a scholar in the bible although they should know more than the average person. These men are not ignorant, uneducated, biased, superstitious, or closed-minded. You are all of the above.
Gee John, that is almost a compliment coming from you . I see that you are projecting again. Let me see, I know that I am not superstitious and that is evidenced by the fact that I am an atheist. I am not uneducated as I have an advanced degree from an accredited university. I am not close-minded or biased as I spent 45 years as a Christian and yet I was able to shed the yoke of superstition at a late age. I am not ignorant as I passed the CPA exam. Tell me again John, what is your understanding of projecting? And all "fundamentalist" means is that they believe the literal interpretation of scripture, except when the literal makes no literal sense.
You mean no literal sense as in, trees of knowledge, trees of life, global floods, talking snakes, talking burning bushes, etc., that don’t make literal sense? I have REPEATEDLY asked a pastor (Ph D) where he got a particular piece of information that he used in a sermon. Sources range from the Koran, to the Baghada Vita (sp?), to the "Science and Health". When I have asked these scholars why they’d read the "enemy’s" material, they have said, "you have to in order to call yourself "educated"". These men, like any educated person, are able to read the most anti-Christian material and weed out the few "gems."
Another bullshit story from Liar John. The facts in this story look a lot like the facts you used in describing the a-bomb being constructed by your neighbor in his garage ). When you universally, unilaterally lump all Christians including the scholars as "ignorant, uneducated, superstitious, and closed-minded, you merely project.
Why you pathetic fool, can you show me where I did this? Of course you can’t, I just asked you to be nice. No Liar John, my family is still Christian so I know that it is only ignorant fundies like you that give Christians a bad name. I have been slammed MANY times for my mind being "too open." That is, by other Christians. The pastors I have consulted over this matter, knowing me as they did, have said, "John, I wouldn’t say this to 1,000 church members, but I’ll say it to you. You are strong enough in the faith to wade waist deep into the enemy camp and steal the "good stuff" without getting hurt."
John, I have consulted my guru and he said everything you said above is bullshit! Why do you lie like this? No matter what you say, unless you produce the body of Christ (that will never happen) you will not shake my faith.
Didn’t you call me close minded? I think you need to look up the phrase close minded. The Bible says that there would be hard-hearted people like you who would not listen, and who would not care.
You mean that there would be people who used their common sense and logic. Well, the bible was correct in this instance. As I’ve said many times, you are one who would hear a knock at your door, you’d open it, and you’d find Jesus Christ levitating a foot off the ground. He’d show you the scars, and He would cause YOU to levitate a foot off the ground, too (as He did with Peter on the lake.) Then He’d say, "Believe!" And you’d simply turn away, drop to the ground, walk inside, shout, "NOT INTERESTED! GO AWAY!!" and slam the door in His face!
I don’t recall you ever saying that Liar John, aren’t lying again are you? You simply aren’t interested, and have no room for an Omnipotent God in your life! NO ONE is going to tell YOU what to do!
What does telling me what to do have to do with the existence of god? That attitude confirms that that teaching of the Bible is 100 % correct. And you said it’s all "myth" and "fairy tales."
Juts how does it confirm that, John? Just your saying it doesn’t make it so.
Never said it did. And unlike some Christians, I have no burning need to convince you. I am convinced; that is sufficient.
Didn’t ask you to convince me.
Response:
Now if we can trust the Bible for science (the Bible contains limited scientific information, but what is there is accurate) and bits and pieces of history, we can trust its theology. The Bible contains too many contradictions, inconsistensies and errors to be trusted in any area. I’ve read it numerous times, as have the scholars, and none of us has found any "contradictions", "inconsistencies", or "errors."
Hmm.. I’ve found a couple: Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) (b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5) How many fighting men were found in Judah? (a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) (b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5) God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine? (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13) (b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12) How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem? (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26) (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2) How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem? (a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8) (b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9) How long did he rule over Jerusalem? (a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8) (b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9) The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8) (b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11) When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after? (a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6) (b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14) How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20) (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9) When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture? (a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4) (b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4) How many stalls for horses did Solomon have? (a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26) (b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25) In what year of King Asa’s reign did Baasha, King of Israel die? (a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 – 16:8) (b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1) How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple? (a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2) (b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16) Solomon built a facility containing how many baths? (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26) (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5) Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? (a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6) (b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11) How many were the children of Zattu? (a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8) (b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13) How many were the children of Azgad? (a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12) (b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17) How many were the children of Adin? (a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15) (b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20) How many were the children of Hashum? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19) (b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22) How many were the children of Bethel and Ai? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28) (b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32) Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows: (a) 29,818 (Ezra) (b) 31,089 (Nehemiah) How many singers accompanied the assembly? (a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65) (b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67) What was the name of King Abijah
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