Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

Hate to sound corny but who upholds the law of love one another … surely we are all guilty … including the judges anyways yes Judges are corrupt, infact society from top to bottom is corrupt, I’ve come to no-other conclusion it must be near the end of this world just like in Gen 6v11 "the world was corrupt and full of violence", the more you look the more evil you see, the only way to stay sain is to be good as you can and accept reality : the world is corrupt and has been for a long time, it’s just worse now than ever before

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally I wouldn’t want a judge that follows the people’s wims. Judges are to rule on law matters or enterpit the law. Today we have judges that have an agenda (liberal or conservative) it really does not matter allot of judges (I pray not many) will rule based on their political biases. These judges need to be weeded out replaced my judges that are willing to make decision on matters of law, not by what is hip for that day, or based on their political views. If we have a judge that is force to rule on bad law then we Americans can go the legislature and change it. The thing judges are suppose to do is rule if law legal (I would to say fair but no law is fair to everyone). The very definition is to stop some one from doing something.  Unfortunately the United States as been making laws for over two hundred years I think we have enough laws on the books. What would like to see is moratorium on any new law. Instead the legislature go through all the old laws and drop what isn’t relevant, stream other in other go back and cleanup our country’s federal statutes. Better than demoliberalism to me! So in other words, anyone who does not share this individual’s political views is not an American. Seems like McCarthyism to me.  - Steve Denney  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

Response:

Personally I wouldn’t want a judge that follows the people’s wims. Judges are to rule on law matters or enterpit the law. Today we have judges that have an agenda (liberal or conservative) it really does not matter allot of judges (I pray not many) will rule based on their political biases. These judges need to be weeded out replaced my judges that are willing to make decision on matters of law, not by what is hip for that day, or based on their political views. If we have a judge that is force to rule on bad law then we Americans can go the legislature and change it. The thing judges are suppose to do is rule if law legal (I would to say fair but no law is fair to everyone). The very definition is to stop some one from doing something.  Unfortunately the United States as been making laws for over two hundred years I think we have enough laws on the books. What would like to see is moratorium on any new law. Instead the legislature go through all the old laws and drop what isn’t relevant, stream other in other go back and cleanup our country’s federal statutes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Better than demoliberalism to me! So in other words, anyone who does not share this individual’s political views is not an American. Seems like McCarthyism to me.  - Steve Denney  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

Response:

The insane reference to th Third Reich,demostrate the inability of liberals to refute  a different opinion using logic.Thank you for showing your deficiencies again and again Proud Member of the Republican "Third Reich" Now go back to your commie story books…….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave masters. Which they later corrected.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies. Americans have a whole variety of opinions about abortion, dipshit! The VAST MAJORITY do NOT want a blanket, all encompassing, outlawing of abortion! It was an act of justices who decide the anti-abortion law in Texas was UNCONSTITUTION! Texas had neither the right, the scientific suport, the religous support OR THE WISDOM to declare "life begins at birth" in their justification to outlaw abortions! Women are NOT killing babies, asshole!  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,   who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools. It was the Constitution that said YOUR GOD DOES NOT BELONG IN A GOVERNMENT FACILITY! Americans DO treaure religious liberty – that is NOT the same as zealous chrisitqans shoving THEIR religon, with the help of the government, at everyone else! God wasn’t kicked out of anywhere – vacuum brain! Your Iconic advertisements for your religon were, properly, removed from government facilities!  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment. Thank Zeus – I live in a country where speech is SO free – that I can even openly express MY views against the government! Thank Odin I live in a nation were the rules that established the freedoms in that nation The Constitution) are MORE important than the whims of incompetant and ignorant legislators or teh public!  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry. Americans believe in marriage. Americans also believe in the rights of the individual. RATIONAL Ameicans believe the government does NOT have the right to decide that some people CAN get married, while others can’t!  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography. Children ARE (to the best of our ability) protected form sexual preditors. Child pornography (and how free speech applies to it)  is a different subject – shithead!  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent. Bwahahaa……. your two brain cells are overheating! You are saying that minor girls (who are on the verge of becomming parents) have NO rights …. while the projected grandparents HAVE right over what that "expectant mother" does with HER body, and HER fetus! If it is, as you claim, a baby .. then SHE is the ruling parent – NOT her parents, doofus!! BTW … they are not, nor have they ever been, babies – no matter how many times you deranged psychotic morons bellow that claim!  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. God is acknowledge in public life. That is NOT the same as having OUR government advertise, support, and bow to YOUR fanatical religioius insanity! You do not want religous freedom! All you want is tyrrany – with YOUR religion in control!  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right. When ALL Americans agree exactly wahata "morality" is .. in detail . then you can make ALL the "morality based" laws you want. WE are NOT, however, bound to make laws based ONLY on YOUR insane delusions and ignorant bellowing about what is, or isn’t, moral!  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in selecting students for admission. Then why didn’t Americans believe in "equal opportunity for all" during the Civil War …. during the 1900s womens movement .. during the 1960 civil rights marches?  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. No … and they aren’t supposed to be. They are accountable to THE LAW! NOT You, NOT your insane delusions, NOT your religion, NOT your bible, NOT your bellowing, and certainly NOT your psychotic ignorance! (snip remaining Third Reich republican ranting!)

Response:

Better than demoliberalism to me!

So in other words, anyone who does not share this individual’s political views is not an American. Seems like McCarthyism to me.  - Steve Denney

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christian : you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle. that the government is to be religiously neutral! Last I heard, "religiously neutral" people do not allow the teaching of islam in the public schools while denying the teaching of Christianity.  Or the teaching of atheism while denying the teaching of Christianity. I have NEVER heard of ONE valid story about public schools teaching either. I have ONLY head moronic, misguided LIARS bellow that crap WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE! Neither of those things is honestly "neutral." Show ANY VALID EVIDENCE that either of those things happen!!! <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not? Some "educator"; more likely a dropout! In other words, you cannot give an honest answer.  I can accept that. I did!

No you just CLAIMED you did, WITH NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You ARE allowed to pray in school. NO ONE has ever stopped that… . unless your actions (like the actions of any others) does NOT interfere with the school or its students! I cannot practice my faith in school by telling others about Jesus Christ.  If you are a muslim you can talk about islam all you wish, quoting its founder included. You are NOT "practicing your faith"!!!!!!! You are trying to convert others (whether they want to hear you or not)! "Practicing your faith" is what YOU do in YOUR connection to YOUR god" Proselytizing is merely trying to "sell" your religious beliefs to others. It has NOTHING TO DO with the religious actions that go on between you and your god! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped YOU or ANY RELIGION from mentioninbg the name(s) of their deities! Except I cannot do so as a teacher in public (in my classroom, in the halls, or anywhere else where students or others may congregate). If you are a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER, you are a civil servant – and employee of OUR government.

That doesn’t include ME?  And because it observes YOUR religious position, I cannot express mine? LOL! Using that position, power and authority – you have NO right to teach YOUR religon!

I none-the-less remain a citizen and have the right to practice my religion.  That includes the icons of my religion, the prayers of my religion, and all of the other trappings of my religion. A racist may become a cop – but he has NO RIGHT to be a "racist cop"!

Last I heard, "racist" was not a recognized religon. Christianity is.  Baptist is.  Atheism is. People become public school teachers to teach public schooll subjects. The do NOT become public school teachers to preach their religion, doofus! An atheist can talk all about the virtues of atheism with nothing said, but let a teacher say anything about Jesus Christ to a student and watch out! Where? When? Who? Blatant, and blatantly ignorant, claims!

Absolutely true claims, and you know it.  At the Public Universities I have attended, professors are often very open about their anti-Christian, anti-God views.  But as a teacher I cannot be open about my Christian views.  And you KNOW that is true.  So don’t lie about it. NO ONE HAS EVER stopped you from "living acording to your faith" . but your ACTIONS claimed religious or not) STILL have to follow the boundaries of OUR laws! And OUR LAWS allow the freedom of religion (1st amendment), and if you would actually READ the first amendment you would notice that it does NOT promise anyone freedom FROM religion, or any separation of church and state.  It merely states that the government shall not establish any religion. Yo! DIPSHIT!

Oh, your argument is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO intelligent!  You sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO intellectual!  What university did YOU graduate from? Freedom FOR religon ALSO means freedom FROM religion.

Better actually READ the 1st amendment.  It says NEITHER "FOR" or "FROM."  It says Freedom OF religion. I cannot hve freedomo FOR my religion, while you, and insane zealots like you, ignore ME freedom of religion by creating a tyranny of YOUR relgion.

More "intelligent" argument.  Also a lie. I have a right NOT to put up with your religion, your insanity, your bull shit! That’s THE LAW – moron!

Oh, your argument is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO intelligent!  You sound SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO intellectual!  Have you graduated from high school yet?  Your IQ is showing in your arguments. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If your religious beliefs demand you walk around with your head up your ass – that’s you business, your right . and apparently something you often practice. If that is your practice, I pity you.  If that is your level of intelligent "discussion" I also pity you.  Your language gives away the fact that you are uneducated and ignorant. You bellow shit – I call it shit! Oh;  in case you head is up your ass, yet again, educated people swear too!

No, they really don’t.  Only ignorant people swear.  Some have "book learning," but they are not intelligent or educated enough to find PROPER adjectives to express themselves, so they resort to swearing, something evein little kids can resort to.  It shows your ignorance. You do NOT have the RIGHT to shove YOUR religon down the throats of others…. . that interferes with OUR religious freedom! But you DO have the right to SHOVE YOUR religion down ours?  Nonsense. What religion is being shoved down YOUR throat? Is someone demanding atheism be forced into churches?

No, just into the public schools.  And its concepts are taught and practiced there regularly Are Jews planning a take over of the Roman Catholic Church? IOW… . what kind of deranged and insane crap are you bellowing now?

Since all of that stuff came from YOUR post, it must be your own. You are just another LYING fraud zealot! If you have any education – it is probably based on a degree in ignorance. No, mine is from accredited universities, and I teach in the public school system.  I am currently teaching 8th grade Summer School Math for yet another two weeks.  I also run my own business of 28 years.

And you call ME a liar!  Hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Oh well, I get paid for teaching Summer School Math, and I make an excellent living in my business, so your ignorance doesn’t mean much. It just remains. . .your ignorance.  You have no factual evidence (which you demand of me) to back your ignorant lies.  Just your own ignorance. You have no FACTUAL evidence to support your position so you must resort to baseless put-downs and name-calling.  I pity your lack of ability to intelligently discuss the issues. You have no factual evidence to support your belowed crap. My posts just told you – you have no factual evidence to support your bellowed crap! I will discuss ANY intelligent topic. Your ignoranat crap, lies, whining and bellowing are anything BUT intelligent!

You call swearing and name-calling, put-downs and lying "discussion?" How ignorant. Christian

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christian : you posted in alt.religion.christian : If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won’t allow. No, you pay taxes for the education of the next generation, not for the education of YOUR children.   My children ARE part of "the next generation." Yes, and there’s a public school system there for them, paid for by taxes.  

Yep, a public school that teaches prejudice against our beliefs, that we pay for and cannot have our "share" sent to the schools that don’t. For the good of society, all property owners pay that the next generation may be educated.  I have no child, and I pay for the education of others’ children, because I have a vested interest in the populace being educated. But then you don’t pay AGAIN to have certain children educated even though you have already paid those prices once. No, but you don’t have to abandon the public school system.  It’s your choice to pay for your children’s education outside the public school system.  Your choice, your money.

And if Christianity were taught in the public schools legally?  Would YOU want your children to attend there?  Would YOU like to pay AGAIN to send them to schools YOU didn’t find so offensive? No matter how you cut it, those who send children to private schools pay twice. By choice.

No, I would choose to only have to pay once.  Vouchers would allow for that.  I suppose you are against vounchers.  I am too, but for different reasons. Try widening your gaze beyond your own pocket book. And you try widening your gaze beyond your own ignorance. You still don’t get it.

I "get it" better than you think.  My statement still stands.  You are ignorant. Christian

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator

Then you must have been aware of the founding fathers’ being deists, the section of the Treaty of Tripoli, etc., which I mentioned and you snipped. Why do you choose to ignore all the information  to the contrary to your assertion? and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle.

Except you were talking about the "founding Fathers as Christians" side of the aisle, among other fallacies. <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  

I have none to teach. You appear to own the copyright on those issues. The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school,

Another lie. Anyone can pray anytime they like, anywhere they wish, in the United States. In fact, religious groups use public school facilities all the time for after school bible study groups and prayer meetings. What is not allowed is for a government agency, such as a public school, to force everyone to pray aloud as a group. An educator would know this. mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not?

I have no religious beliefs to live up to. Such is the way of freedom of and from state-sponsored and sanctioned religion. No one has ever said that a private individual is disallowed from mentioning the name of any deity. What educators in public schools are not allowed to do is to teach their subjective, personal religious beliefs. Sorry if that offends you, but teachers in public schools are acting as agents of the government. If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won’t allow.

Aww, poor diddums. All honked off because the state won’t sanction your subjective, personal religion. TBSS. Of course, if you were willing to give equal time to all the religions, including satanism and Wicca, then you might have a case. What!!??? You don’t want your children exposed to all that? Quelle surprise. As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition.

Do you mean to say that children in public schools are being forced to p[ray aloud to Allah, that they must face Mecca thrice daily, and that they are discriminated against if they're not Muslim? Gimme the address of that school. I'll be the best ally you could hope for in knocking off that bullshit. Oh, wait....... you say that's not happening, that there is simply mention of Islam and their beliefs with no mandate that it be followed, and that no one is being forced to become Muslim or to profess Muslim faith? Well, then....... I can't join in. Sorry. That violates nothing. Of course, as an educator, you are aware that comparative religion classes and religions of the world classes are taught all the time in public educational institutions, and that only narrow-minded, unthinking, anti-intellectual bigots bitch about it, right? Christianity cannot be taught

Another lie. Christianity can be taught, and discussed, and debated. What can't be done is the enforcement of Christianity or any other religion upon all, through coerced action, such as group prayer, upon the unwilling. And no educator may endorse any practice of any religion as a classroom activity. Surely, as an educator, you must be clear on that concept. even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not),

Didn't say it wasn't, Mr/Ms. Educator Who Can't Read For Comprehension. I simply (and easily) refuted your lies about the Founding Fathers and the US being founded on "Christian principles." but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly.

So? It can be taught, just not enforced. Just as the 10 Commandments can be taught, but not endorsed. It's a fine line, and most educators avoid it altogether, because that's the easy way out. but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools.   Cites, please. By giving citations I would be giving some hint as to where and possibly who I am;

I respect your privacy completely, as I have the same view. However, i did not ask specifically for cites from your hometown. As an educator, I expect that you would have known that, thanks to your reading for comprehension skills. You said, "...in public schools." Well, that means more than in just yours (and as an educator, etc.) So, you jolly well back up your own assertions with cites, or you can STFU. And educator would know that the burden of proof is upon the person making the positive assertion. I'll even get you started: Try the ACLU website. Surely, if this problem is as pervasive as you claim, then it is a civil rights violation, which would be handled by the ACLU for the plaintiff, in most cases. Get back to me when you can back up what you're asserting. Shouldn't be a problem for you. You are, after all, an educator. I will not do that.  Ask the question on Google though. . .you'll see I am right.

See above. They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn't exist or is not important. Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that. By definition Atheism is literally "no god," .

An educator would know that atheism is comprised of two parts (that would be the etymology, Educator. Feel free to pass that along.) a -- without, or not theism = belief in god(s) a + theism = atheism = without belief in god(s). Atheism deals with the belief in god(s), not their existence. Now, there are some atheists who have done the logic and can support a position that "gods don't exist." But there are also some educators that make a case for biannual retraining in education. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Fortunately for you, I'm one of those atheists who makes no claims about the existence of any gods. However, I lack belief in any god(s0< and that is what makes me an atheist. Glad I could help. Now, tomorrow's topic will be why pompous wankers who presume to tell me what I believe or that I belong to a religion are colossal idiots. or the belief that NO GOD EXISTS.  By teaching that no god exists or that God has nothing to do with lives, they teach "no god" to our children.  And the Supreme Court has acknowledged that atheism IS a religiously held belief.

Cite, please. Unless, of course, citing a SCOTUS also violate your privacy. And don't even try to back out of providing a cite. YOU made the claim. YOU can jolly well back it up. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. False. SHOW ME how you can do otherwise.  I bet you cannot.

Certainly. It's called comparative religions. In CR classes, Christianity is mentioned and discussed, in historical and sociological meanings. God (if you mean YVHV, of Christian fame) is so included in those discussions. Now, you may imagine that God is somehow excluded because he/she/it is not being worshipped, as I suspect is your real objection, but that's just plain silly. Public school is not the place for worship. You lose the bet, dearie. Now, regrading the mere mention of Islam and an objective discussion of the core tenets thereof: if it were my class in this day and age of religious persecution against Muslims (which, BTW< you have neglected to consider), I might allow such a discussion, IF a student brought it up. BUT -- as an educator, I would be savvy enough to also mention that persecution is not unique to Muslims, and to understand the how and why of religious persecution, we need to examine the topic throughout history, starting with Christianity. Of course, you would object to any mention of the "invade and convert the heathens" tactics used by Christians when they colonized North America, South America, China, England, Scandinavia, Hawaii, Polynesia, etc., and I'm sure your tail feathers would hit the blender if I even hinted that it was Christians who burned witches, their own members, and jews at the stake, or that it was Christians who gave the native Americans blankets which carried smallpox spores to effect genocide against those people. Oh, oops....... but I digress. I would also mention how persecution has affected as many different groups of people as I can think of. But of course, you'll object to that, because it doesn't involve bowing down and worshipping YVHV. You lose the bet, dearie. Hope you didn't lose too much of whatever you bet. - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -And please stop the "I'm so persecuted because my religion isn't being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn't have to resort

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Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - you posted in alt.religion.christian : you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle. that the government is to be religiously neutral! Last I heard, "religiously neutral" people do not allow the teaching of islam in the public schools while denying the teaching of Christianity.  Or the teaching of atheism while denying the teaching of Christianity.

I have NEVER heard of ONE valid story about public schools teaching either. I have ONLY head moronic, misguided LIARS bellow that crap WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE! Neither of those things is honestly "neutral."

Show ANY VALID EVIDENCE that either of those things happen!!! <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not? Some "educator"; more likely a dropout! In other words, you cannot give an honest answer.  I can accept that.

I did! You ARE allowed to pray in school. NO ONE has ever stopped that... . unless your actions (like the actions of any others) does NOT interfere with the school or its students! I cannot practice my faith in school by telling others about Jesus Christ.  If you are a muslim you can talk about islam all you wish, quoting its founder included.

You are NOT "practicing your faith"!!!!!!! You are trying to convert others (whether they want to hear you or not)! "Practicing your faith" is what YOU do in YOUR connection to YOUR god" Proselytizing is merely trying to "sell" your religious beliefs to others. It has NOTHING TO DO with the religious actions that go on between you and your god! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped YOU or ANY RELIGION from mentioninbg the name(s) of their deities! Except I cannot do so as a teacher in public (in my classroom, in the halls, or anywhere else where students or others may congregate).

If you are a PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER, you are a civil servant - and employee of OUR government. Using that position, power and authority - you have NO right to teach YOUR religon! A racist may become a cop - but he has NO RIGHT to be a "racist cop"! People become public school teachers to teach public schooll subjects. The do NOT become public school teachers to preach their religion, doofus!  An atheist can talk all about the virtues of atheism with nothing said, but let a teacher say anything about Jesus Christ to a student and watch out!

Where? When? Who? Blatant, and blatantly ignorant, claims! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped you from "living acording to your faith" . but your ACTIONS claimed religious or not) STILL have to follow the boundaries of OUR laws! And OUR LAWS allow the freedom of religion (1st amendment), and if you would actually READ the first amendment you would notice that it does NOT promise anyone freedom FROM religion, or any separation of church and state.  It merely states that the government shall not establish any religion.

Yo! DIPSHIT! Freedom FOR religon ALSO means freedom FROM religion. I cannot hve freedomo FOR my religion, while you, and insane zealots like you, ignore ME freedom of religion by creating a tyranny of YOUR relgion. I have a right NOT to put up with your religion, your insanity, your bull shit! That's THE LAW - moron! If your religious beliefs demand you walk around with your head up your ass - that's you business, your right . and apparently something you often practice. If that is your practice, I pity you.  If that is your level of intelligent "discussion" I also pity you.  Your language gives away the fact that you are uneducated and ignorant.

You bellow shit - I call it shit! Oh;  in case you head is up your ass, yet again, educated people swear too! You do NOT have the RIGHT to shove YOUR religon down the throats of others.... . that interferes with OUR religious freedom! But you DO have the right to SHOVE YOUR religion down ours?  Nonsense.

What religion is being shoved down YOUR throat? Is someone demanding atheism be forced into churches? Are Jews planning a take over of the Roman Catholic Church? IOW... . what kind of deranged and insane crap are you bellowing now? You are just another LYING fraud zealot! If you have any education - it is probably based on a degree in ignorance. No, mine is from accredited universities, and I teach in the public school system.  I am currently teaching 8th grade Summer School Math for yet another two weeks.  I also run my own business of 28 years.

You have no FACTUAL evidence to support your position so you must resort to baseless put-downs and name-calling.  I pity your lack of ability to intelligently discuss the issues.

You have no factual evidence to support your belowed crap. My posts just told you - you have no factual evidence to support your bellowed crap! I will discuss ANY intelligent topic. Your ignoranat crap, lies, whining and bellowing are anything BUT intelligent! - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow. You pay taxes for OUR COMMON national super highways(whether you use them or not)  . If you want a private road between you and your religion - then YOU pay for it! We pay taxes for OUR COMMON national "super highways" of education, but then we pay ADDITIONAL taxes for the freedom to teach our children right.

You - you pay tasex to teach your children what YOU WANT! Whether it is "right" or not is nothing more than opinion. Any VALID educator would know that, moron! No matter how you cut it, we get stuck paying twice because your religion won't let us practice ours.

"My religion"????? What, in your deranged and psychotic mind, do you think MY religion is? I let you practice YOUR religon AS LONG AS IT STAYS WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF OUR United States LAWS! BTW ..... "my religion" demnds that I sacrific a zealous christian every month! If you DON'T volunteer to by my next sacrifice - you are hindering MY practice of MY religion! As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition. I've seen that bellowing before - but NO ONE who ever bellowed it offered ANY valid references for the claim! Yah, just pretend it doesn't happen and it will go away, huh?

Bwahaha. and you pretend your bellowing it makes it fact! If it IS a fact - then show it with VALID evidence! Then, I cannot pretend it doesn;lt happen. Neither you, nor anyone else, who bellowed that crap has provided ANY valid evidence to support the claim! Pathetic.

Yes .. you are ..... and even moreso when you lie and claim to be an educator! Christianity cannot be taught even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not), but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly. Where? When? By Whom? Chicago.  Public schools.  Los Angeles.  Public schools.

Cites? References" Valid evidence? You eat live babies .... in Chicago, New Orleans, Tupelo, and a dozen other cities! You have already shown yourself to be a liar and a fraud. There is NO reason to accept this claim without evidence! So far you have neither shown me to be a liar OR a fraud.

Oh . I forgot ... you either cananot read what is said..... cannot comprehed what is said ... or . most likely - your head is deep up your ass as usual! You have shown your own inadequacies in discussion by slander, name-calling, put-downs, etc. and you have shown no evidence that we don't end up paying double for our children's educations.

I have never argued that you don't pay double. If you get someone to explain the topic and posts to you - they can show you that fact! What I AM arguing is that the option to pay double IS YOURS! It is not MY responsibility to pay for YOUR childs individualized religious education - while I am ALREADY paying for a WHOLE education that is accessable to your child! - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - but children

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Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : you posted in alt.religion.christian : If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow. No, you pay taxes for the education of the next generation, not for the education of YOUR children.   My children ARE part of "the next generation."

Yes, and there's a public school system there for them, paid for by taxes.   For the good of society, all property owners pay that the next generation may be educated.  I have no child, and I pay for the education of others' children, because I have a vested interest in the populace being educated. But then you don't pay AGAIN to have certain children educated even though you have already paid those prices once.

No, but you don't have to abandon the public school system.  It's your choice to pay for your children's education outside the public school system.  Your choice, your money. No matter how you cut it, those who send children to private schools pay twice.

By choice. Try widening your gaze beyond your own pocket book. And you try widening your gaze beyond your own ignorance.

You still don't get it. Priscilla

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : you posted in alt.religion.christian : If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow. No, you pay taxes for the education of the next generation, not for the education of YOUR children.  

My children ARE part of "the next generation." For the good of society, all property owners pay that the next generation may be educated.  I have no child, and I pay for the education of others' children, because I have a vested interest in the populace being educated.

But then you don't pay AGAIN to have certain children educated even though you have already paid those prices once. No matter how you cut it, those who send children to private schools pay twice. Try widening your gaze beyond your own pocket book.

And you try widening your gaze beyond your own ignorance. Christian

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle. that the government is to be religiously neutral!

Last I heard, "religiously neutral" people do not allow the teaching of islam in the public schools while denying the teaching of Christianity.  Or the teaching of atheism while denying the teaching of Christianity. Neither of those things is honestly "neutral." <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not? Some "educator"; more likely a dropout!

In other words, you cannot give an honest answer.  I can accept that. You ARE allowed to pray in school. NO ONE has ever stopped that... . unless your actions (like the actions of any others) does NOT interfere with the school or its students!

I cannot practice my faith in school by telling others about Jesus Christ.  If you are a muslim you can talk about islam all you wish, quoting its founder included. NO ONE HAS EVER stopped YOU or ANY RELIGION from mentioninbg the name(s) of their deities!

Except I cannot do so as a teacher in public (in my classroom, in the halls, or anywhere else where students or others may congregate).  An atheist can talk all about the virtues of atheism with nothing said, but let a teacher say anything about Jesus Christ to a student and watch out! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped you from "living acording to your faith" . but your ACTIONS claimed religious or not) STILL have to follow the boundaries of OUR laws!

And OUR LAWS allow the freedom of religion (1st amendment), and if you would actually READ the first amendment you would notice that it does NOT promise anyone freedom FROM religion, or any separation of church and state.  It merely states that the government shall not establish any religion. If your religious beliefs demand you walk around with your head up your ass - that's you business, your right . and apparently something you often practice.

If that is your practice, I pity you.  If that is your level of intelligent "discussion" I also pity you.  Your language gives away the fact that you are uneducated and ignorant. You do NOT have the RIGHT to shove YOUR religon down the throats of others.... . that interferes with OUR religious freedom!

But you DO have the right to SHOVE YOUR religion down ours?  Nonsense. You are just another LYING fraud zealot! If you have any education - it is probably based on a degree in ignorance.

No, mine is from accredited universities, and I teach in the public school system.  I am currently teaching 8th grade Summer School Math for yet another two weeks.  I also run my own business of 28 years. You have no FACTUAL evidence to support your position so you must resort to baseless put-downs and name-calling.  I pity your lack of ability to intelligently discuss the issues. If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow. You pay taxes for OUR COMMON national super highways(whether you use them or not)  . If you want a private road between you and your religion - then YOU pay for it!

We pay taxes for OUR COMMON national "super highways" of education, but then we pay ADDITIONAL taxes for the freedom to teach our children right. No matter how you cut it, we get stuck paying twice because your religion won't let us practice ours. As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition. I've seen that bellowing before - but NO ONE who ever bellowed it offered ANY valid references for the claim!

Yah, just pretend it doesn't happen and it will go away, huh? Pathetic. Christianity cannot be taught even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not), but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly. Where? When? By Whom?

Chicago.  Public schools.  Los Angeles.  Public schools. You have already shown yourself to be a liar and a fraud. There is NO reason to accept this claim without evidence!

So far you have neither shown me to be a liar OR a fraud.  You have shown your own inadequacies in discussion by slander, name-calling, put-downs, etc. and you have shown no evidence that we don't end up paying double for our children's educations. but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools. Cites, please. By giving citations I would be giving some hint as to where and possibly who I am; I will not do that.  Ask the question on Google though. . .you'll see I am right.

Call the truth lies all you wish.  All you are doing is spouting smoke.  You haven't shown ONE LIE in anything I have ever said! Go ahead, show one! Pathetic. I can tell you MANY details about the community where I live, and you STILL will not know who  I am. I can tell you just as many details about the city I live most of my early just across the state borders (I live within two miles of Ohio).....

Fine.  You are free to offer any details about yourself you wish; I will not.  That is MY right, and your inability to prove me wrong doesn't change it. What I have NO doubt about is the fact that if the reference is searched in Google - the whole list will lead to more ignorant bellowing by zelalous liars like you!

You haven't shown me to be a liar yet, and that makes YOU the liar. They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn't exist or is not important. Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that. By definition Atheism is literally "no god," or the belief that NO GOD EXISTS. By definition - atheism is the lack of belief in any god. For a claimed educator - it sure seems like you didn't get very far beyond sandbox yourself!

Read your Dictionary.   "atheist  one who denies the existance of God." Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th Edition, page 72 Your inane put-downs show your ignorance. The "no god" definition comes with the word "atheism," and it is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID IT WAS. Again, your put-downs show your ignorance. By teaching that no god exists or that God has nothing to do with lives, they teach "no god" to our children.  And the Supreme Court has acknowledged that atheism IS a religiously held belief. Yo! Shit for brains! NOT TEACHING GOD is NOT the same as "Teaching NO god"!!!!

More name calling.  In other words you cannot come up with honest rebuttal, so you swear, exclaim, and expect us to believe what you say because you are ignorant and nasty.  Pathetic. Refusing to allow the teaching of deity is tantamount to teaching there is no deity by default. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. False. SHOW ME how you can do otherwise.  I bet you cannot. ignorance always seems to rule your (minimally working) brain!

In other words, you CANNOT SHOW ME, just as I predicted.  Pathetic. And please stop the "I'm so persecuted because my religion isn't being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn't have to resort to such base tactics. I am an educator.

If you say so.  The fact is that I get paid for teaching kids in public school.  Do you get paid for playing video your games? Christian

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle.

that the government is to be religiously neutral! <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not?

Some "educator"; more likely a dropout! You ARE allowed to pray in school. NO ONE has ever stopped that... . unless your actions (like the actions of any others) does NOT interfere with the school or its students! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped YOU or ANY RELIGION from mentioninbg the name(s) of their deities! NO ONE HAS EVER stopped you from "living acording to your faith" . but your ACTIONS claimed religious or not) STILL have to follow the boundaries of OUR laws! If your religious beliefs demand you walk around with your head up your ass - that's you business, your right . and apparently something you often practice. You do NOT have the RIGHT to shove YOUR religon down the throats of others.... . that interferes with OUR religious freedom! You are just another LYING fraud zealot! If you have any education - it is probably based on a degree in ignorance. If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow.

You pay taxes for OUR COMMON national super highways(whether you use them or not)  . If you want a private road between you and your religion - then YOU pay for it! As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition.

I've seen that bellowing before - but NO ONE who ever bellowed it offered ANY valid references for the claim! Christianity cannot be taught even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not), but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly.

Where? When? By Whom? You have already shown yourself to be a liar and a fraud. There is NO reason to accept this claim without evidence! but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools. Cites, please. By giving citations I would be giving some hint as to where and possibly who I am; I will not do that.  Ask the question on Google though. . .you'll see I am right.

I can tell you MANY details about the community where I live, and you STILL will not know who  I am. I can tell you just as many details about the city I live most of my early just across the state borders (I live within two miles of Ohio)..... What I have NO doubt about is the fact that if the reference is searched in Google - the whole list will lead to more ignorant bellowing by zelalous liars like you! They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn't exist or is not important. Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that. By definition Atheism is literally "no god," or the belief that NO GOD EXISTS.

By definition - atheism is the lack of belief in any god. For a claimed educator - it sure seems like you didn't get very far beyond sandbox yourself! By teaching that no god exists or that God has nothing to do with lives, they teach "no god" to our children.  And the Supreme Court has acknowledged that atheism IS a religiously held belief.

Yo! Shit for brains! NOT TEACHING GOD is NOT the same as "Teaching NO god"!!!! There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. False. SHOW ME how you can do otherwise.  I bet you cannot.

ignorance always seems to rule your (minimally working) brain! And please stop the "I'm so persecuted because my religion isn't being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn't have to resort to such base tactics. I am an educator.

Response:

you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers:

I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle. <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies.

As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not? If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school.

Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won't allow. As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught?

Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition. Christianity cannot be taught even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not), but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly. but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools.   Cites, please.

By giving citations I would be giving some hint as to where and possibly who I am; I will not do that.  Ask the question on Google though. . .you'll see I am right. They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn't exist or is not important. Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that.

By definition Atheism is literally "no god," or the belief that NO GOD EXISTS.  By teaching that no god exists or that God has nothing to do with lives, they teach "no god" to our children.  And the Supreme Court has acknowledged that atheism IS a religiously held belief. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. False.

SHOW ME how you can do otherwise.  I bet you cannot. And please stop the "I'm so persecuted because my religion isn't being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn't have to resort to such base tactics. I am an educator. My heartfelt condolences to your pupils.

They are fine.  It is obvious however, that you are not. in Christ Jesus, Christian

Response:

The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers)

false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize [sic], every expanded prospect" – letter to William Bradford from James Madison. In the Treaty of Tripoli, authorized by George Washington, ratified by a Senate where a majority had been signers of the Constitution and signed by John Adams, states explicitly in Article 11: "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." When Ben Franklin edited the Constitution it, he changed the phrase "God given rights" to "unalienable rights", so as to not be construed as religious. "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." — Thomas Jefferson "…If we could believe that he (Jesus) really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and  the charlatanisms which his biographers (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) father on him,  and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter, ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an imposter." — Thomas Jefferson Want more? There is absolutely no truth whatsoever in any claim that the Founding fathers were overwhelmingly Christian, or that the US was founded on "Christian principles." has been systematically removed,

With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools.  

Cites, please. They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn’t exist or is not important.

Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God.

False. And please stop the "I’m so persecuted because my religion isn’t being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn’t have to resort to such base tactics. I am an educator.

My heartfelt condolences to your pupils.

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you posted in alt.religion.christian : If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won’t allow.

No, you pay taxes for the education of the next generation, not for the education of YOUR children.  For the good of society, all property owners pay that the next generation may be educated.  I have no child, and I pay for the education of others’ children, because I have a vested interest in the populace being educated. Try widening your gaze beyond your own pocket book. Priscilla

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christian : The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) false. The Founding fathers were, for the m,ost part, Deists, not Christians. And, if you were an educator, you would be aware of the following from the Founding Fathers: I am an educator and I am not only aware of the folks you mentioned, but am also aware that there were many on the other side of the aisle. <snip With good reason. Children should be taught the truth, not your subjective, revisionist lies. As opposed to YOUR subjective, revisionist lies?  The ones that claim that we should not be allowed to pray in school, mention the Name of our Lord, or live according to our faith?  You should be allowed to live according to YOUR religious beliefs, but we should not? If you need to do that, then keep your children at home and school them there. Or send them to a private school. Many of us do.  We pay taxes that should pay for their educations, then we pay PRIVATE schools to do what the taxes won’t allow. As an "educator," you are no doubt aware that a public, government run institution must, by Constitutional law, show no preference to any religion. If you believe otherwise, then are you in favor of giving the Wiccans, satanists, and Buddhists equal time, so that their religions can also be taught? Yet in our schools islam IS taught, openly and without opposition. Christianity cannot be taught even though Christianity IS a significant part of American history (whether you like it or not), but the seven pillars of islam (the religion of our enemies, no less) is taught in many schools, openly. but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools.   Cites, please. By giving citations I would be giving some hint as to where and possibly who I am; I will not do that.  Ask the question on Google though. . .you’ll see I am right. They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn’t exist or is not important. Atheism is no more a religion than your shampoo. Atheism is lack of belief in god(s). An educator would know that. By definition Atheism is literally "no god," or the belief that NO GOD EXISTS.  By teaching that no god exists or that God has nothing to do with lives, they teach "no god" to our children.  And the Supreme Court has acknowledged that atheism IS a religiously held belief. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. False. SHOW ME how you can do otherwise.  I bet you cannot. And please stop the "I’m so persecuted because my religion isn’t being taught in public schools" whine. An educator wouldn’t have to resort to such base tactics. I am an educator. My heartfelt condolences to your pupils. They are fine.  It is obvious however, that you are not. in Christ Jesus, Christian

    Thus Spake God’s Creator; (I don’t forgive shit!)      Why not explain to your students about hypnotism ?      And how *ALL* religions use hypnotic technique’s to      modify their *CONVERTS* previous perceptions of reality      with the *praying* self-hypnosis technique.     i.e. legally induced insanity.     There is no hope for any thoroughly hypnotized individual     to regain their logical facilities ever again.    Behavior modification is used by the-military, rock-stars,    potty-training, prisons, public-speakers, schools… etc.    With adults, the choice of having *THEIR* minds modified is voluntary.    But, *ALL* children should be protected from this type of    mind control, until they are able to think for themselves…    People using (mentally retarding) religious hypnotism on    *other* peoples young (school) children, should be severely punished.                    GOD’S  CREATOR  ( My only sin… )     Wise men study the unknown, and boldly seeks answers !     Others… fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling…     http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/     Today’s Religion Industry:     http://www.refdesk.com/factrel.html

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So in other words, anyone who does not share this individual’s political views is not an American. Seems like McCarthyism to me.  - Steve Denney – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.

 An observation:  Leaders are there to lead.  The followers follow. Did Moses always take a poll as to wants of Children of Israel on way to promised land.  Not too often did Jesus assemble his disciples at the end of the day to poll their desires as to establishing the Kingdom.  St. Paul was famous for listening to no one… maybe not even Jesus.  At least, Paul is not overly enthusiastic quoting teachings, humor, pithy sayings of the Christ?????

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you posted in alt.religion.christian : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave masters. Which they later corrected.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies. Americans have a whole variety of opinions about abortion, dipshit! The VAST MAJORITY do NOT want a blanket, all encompassing, outlawing of abortion! It was an act of justices who decide the anti-abortion law in Texas was UNCONSTITUTION! Texas had neither the right, the scientific suport, the religous support OR THE WISDOM to declare "life begins at birth" in their justification to outlaw abortions! Women are NOT killing babies, asshole!  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,   who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools. It was the Constitution that said YOUR GOD DOES NOT BELONG IN A GOVERNMENT FACILITY! Americans DO treaure religious liberty – that is NOT the same as zealous chrisitqans shoving THEIR religon, with the help of the government, at everyone else! God wasn’t kicked out of anywhere – vacuum brain! Your Iconic advertisements for your religon were, properly, removed from government facilities!

I will just respond to this one point; I haven’t time to waste on the rest of your junk. . . The "iconic advertisements" of Christianity (the main religion of our founding fathers) has been systematically removed, but children are being taught (legally) what the Muslims believe about THEIR god in public schools.  They are also being taught the ATHEIST religion in public schools, that God either doesn’t exist or is not important. There is no such thing as teaching that both includes and excludes God, and by excluding God, you are teaching the exclusion of God. I am an educator. Christian <snipped the rest of your nonsense Christian

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you posted in alt.religion.christian : By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America 1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave masters.

It is the job of judges to make clear the law that exists already. The Judges do not themselves make law. 2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.

Mostly true, but not entirely. 3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.

God has not been kicked out of our schools.  Kids pray before EVERY test I give in 8th Grade Math, believe me!  :-)  In today’s schools we have people of all different religions attending.  IF we give Christian prayer in our opening in the morning, it would only be right to also give Muslim prayer, JW prayer, Mormon prayer, and prayer to all of the gods of India, Pakistan, and all of Asia as well.  Would you REALLY like us to do that?  And then too, if we did do that, what would we do with remaining 15 minutes of our day, actually STUDY? Taking prayer out of opening ceremonies and such won’t stop MY children from believing in God, worshipping Him freely.  And by doing so my children won’t be exposed to those other religions as "equal" to their own. 4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment.

It has been proper to burn the flag when it is dirty or ragged to dispose of it for a very long time.  Burning the American flag is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things.  While it may be offensive to you, seeing a drunk vomit in the streets is equally offensive to me, but I don’t want the law to prohibit it. There is no law prohibiting the burning of American flags.  In order for the judges to uphold such a law, legislators must create one first. 5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.

There is no law against it.  If you want (as I do) to prevent it, you must (as I have) let your legislators know that they must create such a law.  Then the Judges will have a law to uphold. 6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects virtual  child pornography.

I have never seen anything that resembles virtual child pornography. Does such stuff exist, and is it a problem.  Again, if it is not real and if there is no law against it, the judges have nothing to uphold. 7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental consent.

See your legislators.  Ask them to create a law against it, so the judges may uphold that law. 8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.

This is a repetition of number 3, and is clearly answered above. 9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.

Do you REALLY want policemen coming into YOUR bedroom to see what you are doing there?  Is that REALLY something you want the government to examine for you?  The law doesn’t make sodomy a constitutional right; it makes the privacy of one’s bedroom a constitutional right. 10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in selecting students for admission.

A little complicated, but not totally untrue.  But that is changing as we post. Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you cherish as a Christian.

Legislators must MAKE LAWS before the judges can interpret them. Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you don’t, the rights lost may be your own.

Propaganda. Christian

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Also sprach/Thus spake John:  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS

All animals are equal, but American animals are more equal. And have your capslock key repaired. It makes you look like an idiot. A. f’up2 arce

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I think that maybe the concept is:    – The people, via their elected representatives, write laws as well as they can.    – Judges and courts do the best job they can of interpreting and applying these laws to specific circumstance.    – If the people don’t like the results, they can write some new laws. Maybe this has something to do with the living in a nation governed by the rule of law, rather than the whim of individuals. RPD / Cambridge Facts can be your friends if you treat them right. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America 1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave masters. Which they later corrected. 2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies. Americans have a whole variety of opinions about abortion, dipshit! The VAST MAJORITY do NOT want a blanket, all encompassing, outlawing of abortion! It was an act of justices who decide the anti-abortion law in Texas was UNCONSTITUTION! Texas had neither the right, the scientific suport, the religous support OR THE WISDOM to declare "life begins at birth" in their justification to outlaw abortions! Women are NOT killing babies, asshole! 3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,   who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools. It was the Constitution that said YOUR GOD DOES NOT BELONG IN A GOVERNMENT FACILITY! Americans DO treaure religious liberty – that is NOT the same as zealous chrisitqans shoving THEIR religon, with the help of the government, at everyone else! God wasn’t kicked out of anywhere – vacuum brain! Your Iconic advertisements for your religon were, properly, removed from government facilities! 4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment. Thank Zeus – I live in a country where speech is SO free – that I can even openly express MY views against the government! Thank Odin I live in a nation were the rules that established the freedoms in that nation The Constitution) are MORE important than the whims of incompetant and ignorant legislators or teh public! 5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry. Americans believe in marriage. Americans also believe in the rights of the individual. RATIONAL Ameicans believe the government does NOT have the right to decide that some people CAN get married, while others can’t! 6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects virtual  child pornography. Children ARE (to the best of our ability) protected form sexual preditors. Child pornography (and how free speech applies to it)  is a different subject – shithead! 7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental consent. Bwahahaa……. your two brain cells are overheating! You are saying that minor girls (who are on the verge of becomming parents) have NO rights …. while the projected grandparents HAVE right over what that "expectant mother" does with HER body, and HER fetus! If it is, as you claim, a baby .. then SHE is the ruling parent – NOT her parents, doofus!! BTW … they are not, nor have they ever been, babies – no matter how many times you deranged psychotic morons bellow that claim! 8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. God is acknowledge in public life. That is NOT the same as having OUR government advertise, support, and bow to YOUR fanatical religioius insanity! You do not want religous freedom! All you want is tyrrany – with YOUR religion in control! 9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right. When ALL Americans agree exactly wahata "morality" is .. in detail . then you can make ALL the "morality based" laws you want. WE are NOT, however, bound to make laws based ONLY on YOUR insane delusions and ignorant bellowing about what is, or isn’t, moral! 10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in selecting students for admission. Then why didn’t Americans believe in "equal opportunity for all" during the Civil War …. during the 1900s womens movement .. during the 1960 civil rights marches? Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people they represent. No … and they aren’t supposed to be. They are accountable to THE LAW! NOT You, NOT your insane delusions, NOT your religion, NOT your bible, NOT your bellowing, and certainly NOT your psychotic ignorance! (snip remaining Third Reich republican ranting!)

"catholic" group myself — http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air — however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75) "It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law may say," Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch – commenting upon Defense Department Lawyer Will Dunham’s 56-page legalization of torture memo. If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote for the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the Republican Party. Ralph Nader – June 2004 – The American Conservative Magazine "But I believe in torture and I will torture you." -An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with an Iraqi prisoner. "My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed, our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the freedom of our country. -Iraqi Mahdi fighter "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead so he wouldn’t kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried, the soldier said: "’No, stop," -Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding. "the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy." -Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister "Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton’s administration for the Kosovo military action.’Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,’ Bush said." Houston Chronicle 4/9/99 "Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country." Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004 "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there’s a major incident and then suddenly say, ‘Oh my God, shouldn’t we be organized to deal with this?’" – Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001. "On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because "diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor." Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey Bergner, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman, William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had Baghdad on their minds." -philip (usenet) "I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam," -Richard Cheney, Kerry critic. "I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up and running   – to be effective – some of its sovereignty will have to be given back, if I can put it that way, or limited by them, It’s sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they are going to allow us to exercise on their behalf and with their permission." – Powell 4/27/04 "We’re trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things obviously are not going well. You’re going to have good days and bad days." On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good moments." – Rumsfeld 4/6/04 "I also have this belief, … read more »

Response:

 By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of

their slave masters. Which they later corrected.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.

Americans have a whole variety of opinions about abortion, dipshit! The VAST MAJORITY do NOT want a blanket, all encompassing, outlawing of abortion! It was an act of justices who decide the anti-abortion law in Texas was UNCONSTITUTION! Texas had neither the right, the scientific suport, the religous support OR THE WISDOM to declare "life begins at birth" in their justification to outlaw abortions! Women are NOT killing babies, asshole!  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,   who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.

It was the Constitution that said YOUR GOD DOES NOT BELONG IN A GOVERNMENT FACILITY! Americans DO treaure religious liberty – that is NOT the same as zealous chrisitqans shoving THEIR religon, with the help of the government, at everyone else! God wasn’t kicked out of anywhere – vacuum brain! Your Iconic advertisements for your religon were, properly, removed from government facilities!  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.

Thank Zeus – I live in a country where speech is SO free – that I can even openly express MY views against the government! Thank Odin I live in a nation were the rules that established the freedoms in that nation The Constitution) are MORE important than the whims of incompetant and ignorant legislators or teh public!  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.

Americans believe in marriage. Americans also believe in the rights of the individual. RATIONAL Ameicans believe the government does NOT have the right to decide that some people CAN get married, while others can’t!  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.

Children ARE (to the best of our ability) protected form sexual preditors. Child pornography (and how free speech applies to it)  is a different subject – shithead!  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.

Bwahahaa……. your two brain cells are overheating! You are saying that minor girls (who are on the verge of becomming parents) have NO rights …. while the projected grandparents HAVE right over what that "expectant mother" does with HER body, and HER fetus! If it is, as you claim, a baby .. then SHE is the ruling parent – NOT her parents, doofus!! BTW … they are not, nor have they ever been, babies – no matter how many times you deranged psychotic morons bellow that claim!  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s

law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. God is acknowledge in public life. That is NOT the same as having OUR government advertise, support, and bow to YOUR fanatical religioius insanity! You do not want religous freedom! All you want is tyrrany – with YOUR religion in control!  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.

When ALL Americans agree exactly wahata "morality" is .. in detail . then you can make ALL the "morality based" laws you want. WE are NOT, however, bound to make laws based ONLY on YOUR insane delusions and ignorant bellowing about what is, or isn’t, moral!  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in

selecting students for admission. Then why didn’t Americans believe in "equal opportunity for all" during the Civil War …. during the 1900s womens movement .. during the 1960 civil rights marches?  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent.

No … and they aren’t supposed to be. They are accountable to THE LAW! NOT You, NOT your insane delusions, NOT your religion, NOT your bible, NOT your bellowing, and certainly NOT your psychotic ignorance! (snip remaining Third Reich republican ranting!)

Response:

 By By Jan LaRue, Chief Counsel, Concerned Women for America  1. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL PROTECTION FOR ALL AMERICANS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that African slaves were not citizens  protected by the U.S. Constitution but were the property of their slave  masters.  2. AMERICANS ARE PRO-LIFE: It was judges, not legislators, who by an act  of raw judicial power allowed women to kill their babies.  3. AMERICANS TREASURE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that God must be kicked out of our schools.  4. AMERICANS ARE PATRIOTIC: It was judges, not legislators, who ruled  that burning the American flag is expressive conduct protected by the  First Amendment.  5. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE: It was judges, not legislators, who  ordered a state to allow sodomites to marry.  6. AMERICANS WANT CHILDREN PROTECTED FROM SEXUAL PREDATORS: It was  judges, not legislators, who ruled that the First Amendment protects  virtual  child pornography.  7. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN PARENTAL RIGHTS: It was judges, not legislators,  who ruled that minor girls may kill their babies without parental  consent.  8. AMERICANS WANT GOD ACKNOWLEDGED IN PUBLIC LIFE: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a state law requiring the posting of God’s  law in public school classrooms is unconstitutional.  9. AMERICANS SUPPORT LAWS THAT PROTECT MORALITY: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that sodomy is a constitutional right.  10. AMERICANS BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL: It was judges, not  legislators, who ruled that a university may use race as a factor in  selecting students for admission.  Judges, unlike legislators, are unelected and unaccountable to the people  they represent. Who becomes a judge affects every area of your life. A  gavel may be all that stands between you and the rights and liberties you  cherish as a Christian.  Ultra-left special interest groups are spending millions to make sure  that only individuals who share their political agenda become federal  judges. They want judges who write law rather than judges who interpret  the laws that We the People write. You need to actively participate in  the judicial nominations process by making sure that the president and  the U.S. senators know that you want federal judges who respect the  Constitution, the rule of law and the limited role of a judge. If you  don’t, the rights lost may be your own.  Please send your letter of support for the President’s judicial nominees  to the President and both of your U.S. senators:  The Honorable George W. Bush, President  The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.  Washington, D.C. 20500

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