Question:
From an article ‘Ministry as Empowerment’ (includes a questionnaire which most clergy fail) Excerpt: The Devil could not get Jesus to accrue power to himself (Matthew 4:1-11; 16:21-28) so he has tried the same temptations on the shepherds of Jesus’ church. And he has generally succeeded. The church very early in its institutional history developed an ‘official’ ministry which separated ‘ordained’ Christians from others. These ‘priests’ alone had sacramental prerogatives. The Protestant Reformers rejected Roman Catholic and Orthodox theology at this point – the whole church is pastoral, priestly, prophetic – but may not have taken their reformation far enough. Protestant pastors generally feel that they too, control certain prerogatives in the life of the church (presiding at most sacramental observances, preaching most of the sermons, chairing most of the meetings, visiting most of the sick etc.), and are often reluctant to share these ministries with others. They have perhaps forgotten that their key role is equipping (Ephesians 4:12), empowering others for ministry, not doing it all themselves as paid ‘professional employees’ of the Church. Frankly, it’s nice having these privileges: all the clergy surveys tell us they enjoy these public roles in most cases. Taking power to ourselves is the devil’s primal trick however. Justice is essentially about power. When we deny others their empowering, that’s unjust. So pastor-teachers ought to spend more time with fewer people, training them for leadership and ministry on the job. Full article – http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/8113.htm — Shalom! Rowland Croucher *** Note new JMM website URL*** http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ http://articlesandreviews.blogspot.com/
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The church very early in its institutional history developed an ‘official’ ministry which separated ‘ordained’ Christians from others.
At Jesus’ command: "Feed my lambs; feed my sheep." But you miss an important point. You see the separation only in terms of "someone has the power, and someone doesn’t." That misses the point; what Jesus gave first of all was RESPONSIBILITY. The shepherd is responsible for the sheep; the power is only sensible if it is needed to fulfill the responsibility. Everyone of course shares in the responsibility, but some are commissioned (ordained) to a permanent responsibility. Their salvation depends on it.
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From an article ‘Ministry as Empowerment’ (includes a questionnaire which most clergy fail)
I see you have failed to see that Christ did not make everyone a shepherd, otherwise WHO WOULD BE THE SHEEP? This is typical of backwoods theology. The fact of the matter is, Christ designated men to lead, teach and SHEPHERD (AKA "Pastor") other people. It is very American to want to do it all on your own…. it is also contrary to the teachings of our Lord. SHALOM!
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From an article ‘Ministry as Empowerment’ (includes a questionnaire which most clergy fail) I see you have failed to see that Christ did not make everyone a shepherd, otherwise WHO WOULD BE THE SHEEP? This is typical of backwoods theology. The fact of the matter is, Christ designated men to lead, teach and SHEPHERD (AKA "Pastor") other people. It is very American to want to do it all on your own…. it is also contrary to the teachings of our Lord. SHALOM! I love the old phrase, "priests minister when people gather, lay people minister when people scatter." The BCP lists lay people first in the order of Ministry as we are all given this duty upon Baptism, and God willing, re-affirmed at Confirmation. Given this understanding, some are then called to ordained ministry. This call is a strange thing, and I think only one who is truly called can understand the absolute uniqueness of this strange occurrence. The medieval monk was correct in calling God "the hound of heaven." because the tug, and the constant nagging is overwhelming and stalking until it is completed hovers until the "hound" is satisfied. The process of ordination is a different matter, and that’s the bull which a organized Church places on its candidates. One is ordained by God when one gives into the hound, the rest is human hoops. This being said, I’d like to take issue with one comment, which fails to recognize it is ALL of humankind which suffers from arrogance; the basis of "original sin." I don’t think it an accident Genesis begins with this failure as it has plagued us since "creation." Humans have always thought they can do it on their own.
Original NG list restored.
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From an article ‘Ministry as Empowerment’ (includes a questionnaire which most clergy fail) I see you have failed to see that Christ did not make everyone a shepherd, otherwise WHO WOULD BE THE SHEEP? This is typical of backwoods theology. The fact of the matter is, Christ designated men to lead, teach and SHEPHERD (AKA "Pastor") other people. It is very American to want to do it all on your own…. it is also contrary to the teachings of our Lord.
I would disagree, as we are priests in the Order of Melchizadok, that would not be true. Christ did indeed make everyone a shepherd and it is the shepherds who are the His sheep. IOW, it is both American and Christian to be a son of God whose LORD is Jesus Christ and a priest in the order of Melchizadok. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From an article ‘Ministry as Empowerment’ (includes a questionnaire which most clergy fail) I see you have failed to see that Christ did not make everyone a shepherd, otherwise WHO WOULD BE THE SHEEP? This is typical of backwoods theology. The fact of the matter is, Christ designated men to lead, teach and SHEPHERD (AKA "Pastor") other people. It is very American to want to do it all on your own…. it is also contrary to the teachings of our Lord. I would disagree, as we are priests in the Order of Melchizadok, that would not be true. Christ did indeed make everyone a shepherd and it is the shepherds who are the His sheep. IOW, it is both American and Christian to be a son of God whose LORD is Jesus Christ and a priest in the order of Melchizadok.
WHO SAYS you are "a priest in the order of Melchizadok?" The Bible doesn’t. Joe smith did, but he was a heretic leader of a group that became mormons. We are indeed priests of a Royal Priesthood, but not of "Melchizadok" or even Melchizedek either. Christian
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I would disagree, as we are priests in the Order of Melchizadok,
<SNIP Cite scripture, please. Thanks. SHALOM!
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I would disagree, as we are priests in the Order of Melchizadok, <SNIP Cite scripture, please. Thanks. SHALOM!
Hebrews 6:20* Whither the forerunner is FOR US entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 11* But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok?
Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? –SHALOM
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If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king?
Was not Christ both High Priest and King? Why would a Christian in his own adamah strive to live in an Image contrary to His? — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? –SHALOM Ahh, no. That would be the current "president," George H. Bush.
Must be why Kerry wants to be the next judge, priest, and king. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would disagree, as we are priests in the Order of Melchizadok, <SNIP Cite scripture, please. Thanks. SHALOM! Hebrews 6:20* Whither the forerunner is FOR US entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 11* But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok?
It at least used to be true that in the RCC when priests were ordained, it was proclaimed to them that "you are a priest forever in the order of Melchizadek." Priscilla
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If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king?
Are we not, by virtue of our confirmation, become priest, prophet, and king? Priscilla
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It at least used to be true that in the RCC when priests were ordained, it was proclaimed to them that "you are a priest forever in the order of Melchizadek."
Sorry. It’s "according to the order of M…" Priscilla
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We are indeed priests of a Royal Priesthood, but not of "Melchizadok" or even Melchizedek either.
No, what you are is a bunch of cult morons with nothing better to do with your lives than spend it obsessed about imaginary beings.
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We are indeed priests of a Royal Priesthood, but not of "Melchizadok" or even Melchizedek either. No, what you are is a bunch of cult morons with nothing better to do with your lives than spend it obsessed about imaginary beings.
Beats being obsessed about being a slave to the image of sin. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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We are indeed priests of a Royal Priesthood, but not of "Melchizadok" or even Melchizedek either. No, what you are is a bunch of cult morons with nothing better to do with your lives than spend it obsessed about imaginary beings. Beats being obsessed about being a slave to the image of sin.
What is the image of sin? Jesus slaves!
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are indeed priests of a Royal Priesthood, but not of "Melchizadok" or even Melchizedek either. No, what you are is a bunch of cult morons with nothing better to do with your lives than spend it obsessed about imaginary beings. Beats being obsessed about being a slave to the image of sin. What is the image of sin?
Transgressing the statues of the 10 commandments, you know like murder. Jesus slaves!
And proud of being a servant to our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Thanks for acknowledging it. It is appreciated. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? Was not Christ both High Priest and King? Why would a Christian in his own adamah strive to live in an Image contrary to His?
Well, along with that logic, do you strive to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world? –SHALOM
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? Was not Christ both High Priest and King? Why would a Christian in his own adamah strive to live in an Image contrary to His? Well, along with that logic, do you strive to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world?
One can strive for that as Moses did, but he was rejected as an unacceptable sacrifice as Issac and Moses were. Genesis 22:8* And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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Well, along with that logic, do you strive to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world? One can strive for that as Moses did, but he was rejected as an unacceptable sacrifice as Issac and Moses were.
Moses did not strive to be the messiah, he didn’t even hardly want the job of prophet! He did it in obedience to God. Genesis 22:8* And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Yes… you will remember, the lamb (Ram) was provided. (and now…. the rest of the story Genesis 22:9-13) "9When they came to the place of which God had told him, Abraham built the altar there and laid the wood in order and bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. 11But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I." 12He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me." 13And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son. " -ESV
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? Was not Christ both High Priest and King? Why would a Christian in his own adamah strive to live in an Image contrary to His? Well, along with that logic, do you strive to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world? One can strive for that as Moses did, but he was rejected as an unacceptable sacrifice as Issac and Moses were.
Moses on seeking the role of savior: "Exodus 3:11 Moses said to God, "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?"" Seeking, you say? Exodus 4:10 "Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue."" I am afraid that I must disagree with your assessment of Moses. –Shalom!
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a Christian is to strive to live in the Image of Christ, can he do so without striving to be a Priest in the Order of Melchizadok? Well, Melchizedek was from an order of rulers that were both priest and king… do you strive to be both priest and king? Was not Christ both High Priest and King? Why would a Christian in his own adamah strive to live in an Image contrary to His? Well, along with that logic, do you strive to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world? One can strive for that as Moses did, but he was rejected as an unacceptable sacrifice as Issac and Moses were. Moses on seeking the role of savior: "Exodus 3:11 Moses said to God, "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?"" Seeking, you say? Exodus 4:10 "Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue."" I am afraid that I must disagree with your assessment of Moses.
My comments were related to another set of verses in which Moses offered himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the people, God refused his offer. Exodus 32: 31* And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. 32* Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, BLOT ME [sacrifice me], I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33* And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. — May God Bless You Michael GROWING OLDER IS MANDATORY. GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL. We make a Living by what we get, We make a Life by what we give.
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Bb Flat Music Production - MUSIC FOR WORSHIP TRUMPET and ORGAN Compositions by Clyde Hunt ALLELUIA - for B-Flat trumpet and organ. ALLEUIA is a challenging, one movement compositions of 121 measures. Alleluia may , optionally, be performed on the piccolo trumpet, though the original intention was to use the long B-Flat. Composed and premiered, by Hunt, in 1983 for the retirement of Fr. Meisel, Rector of the Church of The Ascension and St. Agnes, Washington D.C. Range: D1 to G3. difficult. The sheet music is written where it sounds for the long B-Flat. It is assumed that players capable of playing this piece will have no difficulty with the picc fingering. Piano and Bb or C Trumpet. Please Specify. http://www.BFLATMUSIC.com/alleluia.html ******* FANFARE & PROCESSION for Trumpet and organ. A highly accessible, Sunday morning processional for any festive occassion. Composed in October, 2000 for the 20th Anniversary of Fr. Ron Okrasinski, as Rector of St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, Colonial Beach, VA Grade IV – range to C3. An organ accompaniment for FANFARE & PROCESSION can be found on the HUNT COMPOSITIONS accompaniment CD. http://www.bflatmusic.com/fanpro.html *** TRUMPET ENSEMBLE AMAZING GRACE: 1 – E-flat trumpet 4 – B-flat trumpets 2 – B-flat slide trumpets 4 – B-flat flugels 1 – B-flat Bass Trumpet http://www.BFLATMUSIC.com.amazingtpt.html ****
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peddle your wares elsewhere… SHALOM!
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