Did John W. Lie Yet Again? Seems So, But Decide For Yourselves | Roman Catholic Church

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Did John W. Lie Yet Again? Seems So, But Decide For Yourselves

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; We ask for Mary’s prayer. I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. But you need to be honest about what is done. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; Romans 15:30 – we are encouraged to ask for intercessory prayer. Rom 15:30 But I beseech you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in prayers for me to God.. You got to have a lot of imagination to fit ‘Mary’ in the above verse… Which, if you really understood Catholicism is what we are doing. galia: I do understand, that’s why I left…

<snip reply not in repsonse Tom: That is why I left all religion, I finally understood .

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. Your sentence above makes little sense. Please, rephrase? galia: Comprehension problems?

Tom: Nope, looks like sentence structure problems to me. Please parse the sentence for us or are you going to honor us with another of your cutesy assertions. You seem to want to be taken seriously here but if that is the case you need to reply to honest questions with an honest answer.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. Your sentence above makes little sense. Please, rephrase? Comprehension problems? Quite possibly, Madam, but you still did not explain how a profoundly ignorant person here is ignorant because that person knows scripture so well. Was that the point you tried to make?

Sir, I am sorry.. This sentence indeed doesn’t make much sense, but I guess you know what I meant.. Madam, I also noticed that you offered nothing to demonstrate the truth of Mr John W.’s assertions that both the Catholics and Mormon deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Was he correct or incorrect in his assertion? If you were, as you claimed, once a Catholic, Madam, you know Mr John W.’s assertion was and is blatantly false.

Sir, I have no experience with the Mormon’s, so I’ll NOT take a stand.. My catholic view however should be known to you by now… galia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – galia That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time…. Why do you assume your claimed former practice of Roman Catholicism was the correct practice of that dogma? They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot… What does that sentence mean? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. What? Is there any evidence for that claim? No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) What about the Mormons? You directed some rather uninformed insults towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also. Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed.. … galia

Response:

Rom 15:30 But I beseech you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in prayers for me to God.. You got to have a lot of imagination to fit ‘Mary’ in the above verse… Which, if you really understood Catholicism is what we are doing.

I do understand, that’s why I left… ; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Yes we are.

ONLY to the Father in Jesus Name….no, you don’t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture… Romans 15:30 – intercessory prayer. The closing line of the Hail Mary [which is a litany from Luke 1] is "PRAY FOR US".

Hail Mary is a fabrication of the catholic church… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time…. They are asking a person ALIVE IN CHRIST TO PRAY FOR US.

I know, but this prayer goes only as far as the ceiling… and is absolutely unscriptural as much as your purgatory… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. It is very false. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Nope… not contrary at all. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. I have.

You are deceived… galia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. Your sentence above makes little sense. Please, rephrase? Comprehension problems?

Quite possibly, Madam, but you still did not explain how a profoundly ignorant person here is ignorant because that person knows scripture so well. Was that the point you tried to make? Madam, I also noticed that you offered nothing to demonstrate the truth of Mr John W.’s assertions that both the Catholics and Mormon deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Was he correct or incorrect in his assertion? If you were, as you claimed, once a Catholic, Madam, you know Mr John W.’s assertion was and is blatantly false. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – galia That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time…. Why do you assume your claimed former practice of Roman Catholicism was the correct practice of that dogma? They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot… What does that sentence mean? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. What? Is there any evidence for that claim? No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) What about the Mormons? You directed some rather uninformed insults towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also. Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed.. … galia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. Your sentence above makes little sense. Please, rephrase?

Comprehension problems? galia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time…. Why do you assume your claimed former practice of Roman Catholicism was the correct practice of that dogma? They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot… What does that sentence mean? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. What? Is there any evidence for that claim? No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) What about the Mormons? You directed some rather uninformed insults towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also. Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed.. … galia

Response:

Why do you plead dyslexia and correct yourself and then in the very next sentence lie again? Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy.

No, they do not. You are lying still. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God.

Yet another lie? Is your dyslexia so powerful that it causes you to lie repeatedly? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh.

No, Catholics do not. You lie yet again. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) John W

And then you repeated your error by lying at least four times in your next post. Were those lies also due to dyslexia? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, they are not Christian, either. But I encourage everyone to read the series of posts here and decide for themselves. This post was extracted from the thread "Again, Paster Dave, Why?" which addressed yet another extreme fundamentalist lie. These lunatic fringe, so-called "Christian" fundamentalists just keep these lies coming don’t they? Now Mr John W., do you read what you post? Why do you tell such obvious and silly lies? Clearly, the Roman Catholics and Mormons are listed above. Yet your wrote, "There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ." Do you really believe that Roman Catholics and Mormons "deny the deity of Christ?" Or do you just not know what Catholics and Mormons believe? Or are you just posting without reading your own words again, i.e., one of your infamous "I did not intend to lie" lies? Or is it just a vicious and slanderous and deliberate lie? Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion . c hristian-teen,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: news3.uncensored-news.com Lines: 48 offending post, DO NOT attach any file. X-Comment: NOTICE: Uncensored-News.Com does not condone, nor support, spam, illegal or copyrighted postings. X-T.O.S.: http://www.uncensored-news.com/terms.html Organization: Uncensored-News.Com $9.95 Uncensored Newsgroups. Path: newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!elnk-nf2 – p as!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so. c g .shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sea-feed.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.v e r io.net!feed.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored – n ews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.talk.creationism:24903 alt.bible:809657 alt.religion.christian.baptist:487843 alt.religion.christian-teen:333096 alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic:909239 (newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net) … You sure have listed some pagan religions under the banner "Christian." Can’t Roman Catholics tell a Christian from a pagan? You certainly cannot. Mormons are pagans, just like Roman Catholics. Unitarians believe in God only, and so they deny the Trinity. Hardly Christian. Not pagan. If you are Baptist (my heritage), we trace our faith back to the 1st Century New Testament and the church Christ founded. Please provide evidence to support this claim. … If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder. Another not Christian. Why do you include so many non-Christian cults? To make you list longer? She acknowledges Jesus Christ. Please show how she, or the Mormons are not Christian. Anyone who understands the above sects knows the afore mentioned religions are not Christian. Don’t waste my time. There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ. John W … Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com <<<<<<< The Worlds Uncensored News Source <<<<<<<< Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 –

http://www.uncensored-news.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<<<<<< The Worlds Uncensored News Source <<<<<<<<

Response:

We ask for Mary’s prayer. I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies

permission to state a fact. But you need to be honest about what is done. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary;

Romans 15:30 – we are encouraged to ask for intercessory prayer. Which, if you really understood Catholicism is what we are doing. WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up!

Yes we are. Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture…

Romans 15:30 – intercessory prayer. The closing line of the Hail Mary [which is a litany from Luke 1] is "PRAY FOR US". Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time….

They are asking a person ALIVE IN CHRIST TO PRAY FOR US. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical….

It is very false. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture..

Nope… not contrary at all. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement..

I have.

Response:

That cannot be proven becasue it does not exist. Just another fundamentalist kook lie. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. And it is also untrue. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Do you ask others to pray for you? We do the same. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Nope… the Bible is the biggest.

I wonder what writing of the popes this refers to? And what kind of grossly stupid misspelling of of pope is "pip’? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. Nope. We elevate no one higher than Jesus. Why do you lie so?

It seems to be ingrained in the lunatic fringe so-called "Christian" fundamentalist character. Much of their faith is found in a succession of lies. The tragic aspect of the whole thing is that they believe them in spit of the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve called off future contact with John Weatherly as John Hennekes. What John is failing to say is that he wrote me a BRB note, which I rebuffed. For me, personally, enough is enough. I’ve been saying that for 2 weeks now. Others would have stopped sooner, but I chose not to.

Do you Protestants and Catholics who argue with each other have any idea how ridiculous you appear to unbelievers, mockers, and scoffers such as myself?

Response:

Nope. CHrist is part of the Trinity. The ONE GOD. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods.

What list of gods. Please provide the list of ‘gods’ from any Catholic source. Be sure to point out where the Catholic source calls them gods. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy.

And it is also untrue. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus.

Do you ask others to pray for you? We do the same. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God.

Nope… the Bible is the biggest. Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh.

Nope. We elevate no one higher than Jesus. Why do you lie so?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well.

Your sentence above makes little sense. Please, rephrase? That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time….

Why do you assume your claimed former practice of Roman Catholicism was the correct practice of that dogma? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot…

What does that sentence mean? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh.

What? Is there any evidence for that claim? No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.)

What about the Mormons? You directed some rather uninformed insults towards the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints also. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed.. … galia

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. That is false. Deification of Mary is heresy in the Catholic doctrine. Nevertheless, she is to be venerated as a Saint, and has a special place in Heaven. There is only one God according to the Catholic Church, and only one Christ. Your false claims are overridden by Roman Catholic practice.

Your lies are exposed by your false definition of the word pray. Anyone to whom you pray is a goddess or a god.

That is your conclusion. Based on your faulty definition of the word ‘pray’. Pray tell, what does pray mean? When you pray to Mary to coerce Jesus, that indicates you consider her a superior goddess.

Do you ask others to pray for you John? Then you are trying to coerce Jesus by having others ask. And I’ve YET to have a Roman Catholic successfully tell me why a Roman Catholic prays to a dead person. We are to pray to Christ/Goid ONLY.

Because they aren’t DEAD. They are alive in Christ. JEsus promised eternal life. SO we continue to ask others who are alive in spirit with Christ to pray for us. "There is one Mediator…"

Then you’d better NEVER ask another person to pray for you.

Response:

Fish stay out of trouble by keeping their mouths shut.

Any fish that keeps its mouth shut will die, fish "breathe" through their mouths.

Response:

Mary has a unique relationship with Jesus Christ. Since Jesus and Holy Ghost are of the same substance, and Jesus was "concieved by the Holy Ghost," Jesus in essence got his own mother pregnant with Himself, a truly astonishing and unique form of incest. I’m certain Mary was astonished when she found out that her own son had something to do with her getting pregnant. If you believe in monotheism, this is the natural progression of questions and thoughts.

Response:

I don’t claim that Catholics don’t invoke Mary in their prayers. I do claim that this does not make Mary a god, place Mary above Jesus or ask Mary to pull rank on Jesus. Mr. W does. Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well.

The claim that he made was not about scripture, it was about the beliefs of Catholics. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false. Prove it with scripture…

Nothing in scripture tells us that Catholics worship Mary as a god. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time….

Separate question and I do agree that this is a clear difference between Roman Catholics and most Prostestants. Still, it does not appear that you are claiming that you were taught that Mary was a god as John W claimed. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement..

I have, that does not justify John W in calling them pips. It’s not biblical to pray to Jesus, is it, yet you tell me that you do. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot…

How were the books of the Bible selected? Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed..

Where?

Response:

Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.)

Fish stay out of trouble by keeping their mouths shut.

Response:

That is false. Deification of Mary is heresy in the Catholic doctrine. Nevertheless, she is to be venerated as a Saint, and has a special place in Heaven. There is only one God according to the Catholic Church, and only one Christ. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) John W Oh, they are not Christian,

Response:

I’ve called off future contact with John Weatherly as John Hennekes.

What John is failing to say is that he wrote me a BRB note, which I rebuffed. For me, personally, enough is enough.

I’ve been saying that for 2 weeks now. Others would have stopped sooner, but I chose not to.

No. John H likes to nag, nag, nag, ignoring the fact that that’s a sin. I did offer olive branches along the way, I didn’t notice any. Make note: A John H lie. but each one was rejected, in one form or another.

I do not call "olive brances" John’s ongoing insistence that I agree with him totally or risk hell-fire. Let’s keep it real, John H. Each rejection signaled my failure. I think there were three of these peace offerings, but I’m not sure of the exact number. (baseball rules: 3 strikes and you’re out)

Z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z. John has his baseball allegory, (the apostate hypocrite), then there’s what James had to say, that John H ignored. "Correct your brother, if he does not accept your correction, take him to the elders with witnesses. If he still does not accept your correction, leave it with God. John REFUSES to leave it with God, and he’s been pounding and stomping with boxing gloves and combat boots. Enough, John H! Here’s my point. I’m done with my part, but I would like to make a suggestion. I would ask you, for human decency’s sake, to drop the bi-polar references. These, if you were to truly think about, do not help but only hurts…in more ways than one. You know who you are, and you know that I speak truth.

That was a nice comment for a change; of course since NO ONE but Elaine listens to John H, it won’t matter. This, in my mind, only applies to that one particular menu item. I’m not completely comfortable with the idea that we should overlook all things. So, let me close with a quote from a much better mind than mine "Study the things that make for peace; if it be possible, without offending God and wounding conscience" (Matthew Henry).

How about the Bible? Paul. "As much as is possible, be at peace with all men." John only believes in peace with those who agree with his POV May God bless the Believer and those Unbelievers, who will become Believers; and may He have Mercy on those Unbelievers, who will never become Believers. John Hennekes

On his last statement, John H and I agree. John W Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com <<<<<<< The Worlds Uncensored News Source <<<<<<<<

Response:

John, when you make claims about what people believe, you have to get your information from the people who believe. You cannot point to any Catholic doctrine that puts Mary or Peter above Christ or even says that they are gods or demigods. Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy.

It is not done. Your claim is false. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus.

Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God.

Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture. Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh.

No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.)

Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology. …

Response:

Hold it David… It is common knowledge that catholics pray to Mary; I had been a catholic for most of my life and I don’t NEED anybodies permission to state a fact. Nowhere in scripture is the believer encouraged to pray to Mary; WE ARE PRAYING TO THE FATHER IN JESUS NAME! Look it up! Once again you have shown yourself to be profoundly ignorant of the things of which you speak and carelessly indifferent to the accuracy of the claims. If you repeat this claim you will be lying.

I think YOUr’e the profoundly ignorant person here; because you know scripture so well. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. It is not done. Your claim is false.

Prove it with scripture… Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. Your claim, based vaguely on some Catholic actions, such as the saying of the "Hail, Mary" mischaracterizes what is done and makes a statement about what is done that is contrary to Catholic theology.

They are praying to a dead person; I have done it all the time…. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Your intentional uses of an apparently demeaning misnomer is noted. Your characterization of how the popes and tradition affect Catholicism is uninformed.

It is very well known and NOT biblical…. Catholics have created their own sets of rules contrary to scripture.. Find out for yourself, before you pass judgement.. You also seem unaware that tradition is what settled the choices of texts for the scripture.

This is a misconception entertained by people who throw everything in one pot… Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. No. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) Your error is far more fundamental. Your apology seems dishonest. You misrepresent Catholic doctrine in a way to claim that it is not Christian in your apology.

No, your’e making a fundamental error here; YOUr’e uninformed.. …

galia

Response:

When do Catholics ask Mary to coerce Jesus? And I’ve YET to have a Roman Catholic successfully tell me why a Roman Catholic prays to a dead person. We are to pray to Christ/Goid ONLY. "There is one Mediator…" John W

Of course the other monotheist religions ask why you pray to Jesus.

Response:

A casual read of the following post by Mr John W. demonstrates quite conclusively that he has again posted a lie. Mr John W. asserts quite boldly and in straightforward, unequivocal language that Roman Catholics and Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. Oh, they are not Christian, either. But I encourage everyone to read the series of posts here and decide for themselves. This post was extracted from the thread "Again, Paster Dave, Why?" which addressed yet another extreme fundamentalist lie. These lunatic fringe, so-called "Christian" fundamentalists just keep these lies coming don’t they? Now Mr John W., do you read what you post? Why do you tell such obvious and silly lies? Clearly, the Roman Catholics and Mormons are listed above. Yet your wrote, "There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ." Do you really believe that Roman Catholics and Mormons "deny the deity of Christ?" Or do you just not know what Catholics and Mormons believe? Or are you just posting without reading your own words again, i.e., one of your infamous "I did not intend to lie" lies? Or is it just a vicious and slanderous and deliberate lie? Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion. c hristian-teen,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: news3.uncensored-news.com Lines: 48 offending post, DO NOT attach any file. X-Comment: NOTICE: Uncensored-News.Com does not condone, nor support, spam, illegal or copyrighted postings. X-T.O.S.: http://www.uncensored-news.com/terms.html Organization: Uncensored-News.Com $9.95 Uncensored Newsgroups. Path: newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!elnk-nf2- p as!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.c g .shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sea-feed.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.ve r io.net!feed.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored- n ews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.talk.creationism:24903 alt.bible:809657 alt.religion.christian.baptist:487843 alt.religion.christian-teen:333096 alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic:909239 (newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … You sure have listed some pagan religions under the banner "Christian." Can’t Roman Catholics tell a Christian from a pagan? You certainly cannot. Mormons are pagans, just like Roman Catholics. Unitarians believe in God only, and so they deny the Trinity. Hardly Christian. Not pagan. If you are Baptist (my heritage), we trace our faith back to the 1st Century New Testament and the church Christ founded. Please provide evidence to support this claim. … If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder. Another not Christian. Why do you include so many non-Christian cults? To make you list longer? She acknowledges Jesus Christ. Please show how she, or the Mormons are not Christian.

Anyone who understands the above sects knows the afore mentioned religions are not Christian. Don’t waste my time. There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ. John W …

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Response:

Your false claims are overridden by Roman Catholic practice. Anyone to whom you pray is a goddess or a god. When you pray to Mary to coerce Jesus, that indicates you consider her a superior goddess. And I’ve YET to have a Roman Catholic successfully tell me why a Roman Catholic prays to a dead person. We are to pray to Christ/Goid ONLY. "There is one Mediator…" John W – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) John W Oh, they are not Christian,

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Response:

I just noticed this and noted, dyslexia strikes again. I did not intend to say or suggest that Roman Catholics do not believe in Christ as deity. They do; a lesser deity. Howver they do place Mary and Peter above Christ in their list of gods. That is still not allowed, and it is heresy. Why do I say that they place Mary above Jesus? They pray to her to cajole or "pull rank on" Jesus. They also consider the writings of the pips (apostolic succession) more important than the Bible, or the word of God/Son of God. Thus they elevate Peter to a status superior to Jesus Christ, God in flesh. Sorry about that error. I typed it incorrectly. With the dyslexia (which you stalkers can look back a few weeks and find my mention of), I had to look at it several times to see my error.) John W Oh, they are not Christian, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -either. But I encourage everyone to read the series of posts here and decide for themselves. This post was extracted from the thread "Again, Paster Dave, Why?" which addressed yet another extreme fundamentalist lie. These lunatic fringe, so-called "Christian" fundamentalists just keep these lies coming don’t they? Now Mr John W., do you read what you post? Why do you tell such obvious and silly lies? Clearly, the Roman Catholics and Mormons are listed above. Yet your wrote, "There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ." Do you really believe that Roman Catholics and Mormons "deny the deity of Christ?" Or do you just not know what Catholics and Mormons believe? Or are you just posting without reading your own words again, i.e., one of your infamous "I did not intend to lie" lies? Or is it just a vicious and slanderous and deliberate lie? Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.bible,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion .c hristian-teen,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: news3.uncensored-news.com Lines: 48 offending post, DO NOT attach any file. X-Comment: NOTICE: Uncensored-News.Com does not condone, nor support, spam, illegal or copyrighted postings. X-T.O.S.: http://www.uncensored-news.com/terms.html Organization: Uncensored-News.Com $9.95 Uncensored Newsgroups. Path: newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!elnk-nf2 -p as!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so. cg .shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sea-feed.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.v er io.net!feed.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored-news.com!news3.uncensored -n ews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news.earthlink.net alt.talk.creationism:24903 alt.bible:809657 alt.religion.christian.baptist:487843 alt.religion.christian-teen:333096 alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic:909239 (newsmaster1.news.pas.earthlink.net) … You sure have listed some pagan religions under the banner "Christian." Can’t Roman Catholics tell a Christian from a pagan? You certainly cannot. Mormons are pagans, just like Roman Catholics. Unitarians believe in God only, and so they deny the Trinity. Hardly Christian. Not pagan. If you are Baptist (my heritage), we trace our faith back to the 1st Century New Testament and the church Christ founded. Please provide evidence to support this claim. … If you are Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder. Another not Christian. Why do you include so many non-Christian cults? To make you list longer? She acknowledges Jesus Christ. Please show how she, or the Mormons are not Christian. Anyone who understands the above sects knows the afore mentioned religions are not Christian. Don’t waste my time. There are certain basic fundamentals of Christianity, like that Christ is God in flesh;. Essentially all the cults listed above reject the deity of Christ. John W … Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com <<<<<<< The Worlds Uncensored News Source <<<<<<<<

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