Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

[] ::: I know that you have trouble giving straight answers to questions, ::: but please try. How do you get from the statement that the ::: Inquisition was fairly normal for its time to our assertion that ::: there is no God?< :: :: Ah, no wonder you don’t understand. You’re another Catholic who never :: learned to read. I can read perfectly well. You, on the other hand, left out more than a few of the step in logic to get from statement A (the Inquisition was not unusual for its time) to your statement (there is no God). Please fill in the blanks. Steve

Response:

Davidson, you sound like a real LOSER.  You were asked a fair question – you were asked to explain your own thinking.  You could not. You LOSER.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::::::::: ::::::::: :::::::::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture ::::::::: ::::::::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. ::::::::: ::::::::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for ::::::::: horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse ::::::::: than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. :::::::: :::::::: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. :::::: :::::: How do you get from A to B there? ::::: ::::: darrow understood. ::: ::: He only addressed part of your statement. ::: How do you get from A to B there?< :: :: How interesting. It appears that there may be evidence for the :: existence of God outside the offices and authority of the RCC. Now :: isn’t that a relief! Or a curse, depending on your point of view! I know that you have trouble giving straight answers to questions, but please try. How do you get from the statement that the Inquisition was fairly normal for its time to our assertion that there is no God?< Ah, no wonder you don’t understand. You’re another Catholic who never learned to read.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::::::::: ::::::::: :::::::::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture ::::::::: ::::::::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. ::::::::: ::::::::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for ::::::::: horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse ::::::::: than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. :::::::: :::::::: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. :::::: :::::: How do you get from A to B there? ::::: ::::: darrow understood. ::: ::: He only addressed part of your statement. ::: How do you get from A to B there?< :: :: How interesting. It appears that there may be evidence for the :: existence of God outside the offices and authority of the RCC. Now :: isn’t that a relief! Or a curse, depending on your point of view! I know that you have trouble giving straight answers to questions, but please try. How do you get from the statement that the Inquisition was fairly normal for its time to our assertion that there is no God?<

Ah, no wonder you don’t understand. You’re another Catholic who never learned to read.

Response:

:::::: :::::: ::::::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture :::::: :::::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. :::::: :::::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible :::::: reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant :::::: and even secular legal bodies at the time. ::::: ::::: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. ::: ::: How do you get from A to B there? :: :: darrow understood. He only addressed part of your statement. How do you get from A to B there? Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :::::: :::::: ::::::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture :::::: :::::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. :::::: :::::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible :::::: reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant :::::: and even secular legal bodies at the time. ::::: ::::: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. ::: ::: How do you get from A to B there? :: :: darrow understood. He only addressed part of your statement. How do you get from A to B there?<

How interesting. It appears that there may be evidence for the existence of God outside the offices and authority of the RCC. Now isn’t that a relief! Or a curse, depending on your point of view!

Response:

::::::::: ::::::::: :::::::::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture ::::::::: ::::::::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. ::::::::: ::::::::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for ::::::::: horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse ::::::::: than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. :::::::: :::::::: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. :::::: :::::: How do you get from A to B there? ::::: ::::: darrow understood. ::: ::: He only addressed part of your statement. ::: How do you get from A to B there?< :: :: How interesting. It appears that there may be evidence for the :: existence of God outside the offices and authority of the RCC. Now :: isn’t that a relief! Or a curse, depending on your point of view! I know that you have trouble giving straight answers to questions, but please try. How do you get from the statement that the Inquisition was fairly normal for its time to our assertion that there is no God? Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings,< Not at all. You, in common with very many others, have assumed that your church is Christian; Nope.  What I SAID is that the Christian Church had buildings to meet in before the first century had even drawn to a close, that the Christian Church had priests, and that the Roman Catholic church can LEGITIMATELY trace their popes all the way back to the first century. The heirarchy of your faith is housed on the site of my faiths’ Maetreum, which they obtained by slaughtering our pristess there.

Well, we’re all terribly sad to hear that, but unfortunately it doesn’t negate what was already pointed out – namely that the Christian Church had buildings to meet in before the first century had even drawn to a close, that the Christian Church had priests, and that the Roman Catholic church can LEGITIMATELY trace their popes all the way back to the first century, Caillean.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings,< Not at all. You, in common with very many others, have assumed that your church is Christian; Nope.  What I SAID is that the Christian Church had buildings to meet in before the first century had even drawn to a close, that the Christian Church had priests, and that the Roman Catholic church can LEGITIMATELY trace their popes all the way back to the first century.

The heirarchy of your faith is housed on the site of my faiths’ Maetreum, which they obtained by slaughtering our pristess there. And you didn’t move in til after 400CE. Blessings always, dear Darrow, for I do enjoy your intellect; Caillean

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings,< Not at all. You, in common with very many others, have assumed that your church is Christian; Nope.  What I SAID is that the Christian Church had buildings to meet in before the first century had even drawn to a close, that the Christian Church had priests, and that the Roman Catholic church can LEGITIMATELY trace their popes all the way back to the first century.<

I know you said that. I did not see any evidence, and I never have done, anywhere. You can say what you like, it does not make it any more than wishful thinking. You can turn this into a rosary and repeat it a billion times, it will not make it true.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings,<

Not at all. You, in common with very many others, have assumed that your church is Christian; in view of the repeated statements of the apostles that false teachers would arrive, this can be only the ‘assumption’ of a follower of these teachers, unless it is a statement made in ignorance. There were pagan temples, with attendant priests, and even a ‘pontifex maximus’ well before the Christian church, and anyone can change the name on his front door. Today Romanists complain that anyone can set up a church; indeed they can, and there is no reason whatever to believe that the RCC throughout its history until today has not been the pliant product of the unregenerate world. I have made no assumptions. The New Testament  refers on four occasions to three separate churches that met in houses, and nowhere refers to a church b uilding other than synagogues shared with Jews. Christianity in the Roman Empire soon became illegal until Constantine, so church buildings in the Empire cannot have been in existence until then. The earliest known church building is well outside the Empire, at Dura Europos on the Euphrates. It seems to have been an adapted synagogue in an area well known for the presence of the Jewish diaspora. If precedence depends on real estate, then it does indeed seem to be on Peter’s ‘patch’, but not where Romanists want it .  priests,< The only priesthood mentioned in the Bible is the priesthood of all believers. and popes<

‘Popes’ were actually forbidden by Jesus, and certainly Peter was not universally recognised as anything special: ‘One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."’ (1 Cor 1:12 NIV) and certainly not by Paul: ‘As for those who seemed to be important- whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance.’  (Gal 2:6 NIV) are all incorrect, since even the early Church had buildings within which to meet, priests existed before the first century was even over, and the Roman Catholic church can legitimately trace the existence of their popes all the way back to the first century also.<

If you can trace it, then you will be the first to do so. Find the same level of evidence as Roman Emperors had for their legitimacy, and the same level as Popes had later on, and your case is definitely worth some attention.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::: ::: :::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture ::: ::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. ::: ::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible ::: reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant ::: and even secular legal bodies at the time. :: :: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. How do you get from A to B there?

darrow understood.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings,< Not at all. You, in common with very many others, have assumed that your church is Christian;

Nope.  What I SAID is that the Christian Church had buildings to meet in before the first century had even drawn to a close, that the Christian Church had priests, and that the Roman Catholic church can LEGITIMATELY trace their popes all the way back to the first century.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well over about 700 years the death toll was really quite small comparatively. records were kept etc. Of course a Christian could never condone it ..except for what it were .. a mixture of a whole lot of stuff …. political and religuous. However if you want to see a real inquisition ….look at the frequent ragings of  the pagans against Christians etc …or look at Russia or China etc … who killed millions of Christians … the inquisition is like a match compared to the arizona wildfire comparatively .. You didnt know this did you ? robert Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture Thu Jun 27, 9:13 AM ET VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Vatican ( news – web sites), which abandoned torture after the Inquisition centuries ago, on Wednesday ratified the United Nations ( news – web sites) convention against the practice. The Vatican, a 108-acre sovereign state surrounded by Rome, said it timed its ratification of the convention to coincide with the U.N.’s day of solidarity with the victims of torture. The Vatican said it signed the convention — the 129th state to do so since it came into force in 1987 — because it considered torture "cruel, inhuman and degrading" and a grave attack on the dignity of the person. The Inquisition, a tribunal in which some heretics were tortured, was set up in 1233 and was in force until the late 15th century. The Vatican office which deals with doctrinal orthodoxy, however, was known as the Inquisition until 1908. I am happy to see that they took this step. It is very symbolic and goes a long way to preventing it’s recurrence on the part of that particular Christian faith. Brightest Blessings; Caillean `aSiobhan, Lady Carrigaholt

I’ve not seen any particular raging by Western neo-Pagans against Christianity. Roman persecution was in response to a series of riots by warring rival Christian sects. The solidification of the position of the Roman bishop by Constantine put an end to that kind of problem til the schism, and later the Reformation. Blessings; Caillean `aSiobhan, Lady Carrigaholt

Response:

No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.<

You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries? So that’s the answer! Can the percentage not be improved? I can’t imagine how, because it’s not something that is under our control, since it is a matter rather of the individual on his or her way to sainthood (by virtue of his or her good deeds) and God.<

Or is it that even those who are allegedly saints are not saints at all? Is this posthumous canonisation business just a cover-up for the fact that not a single Catholic life stands up to scrutiny? For how long would a real Christian be tolerated in the RCC anyway? and that they are being saved by God.< How many millennia does it take? It takes until the Eschaton.<

Is that what the Catechism says? Or even that…what’s it called? Bible, That’s it, the book with that bit about being saved by good works in it, or so I’m told. How is it that Catholics are saved by good works but they have no more than anybody else? Don’t tell me, they do them in secret.

Response:

::: ::: :::: Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture ::: ::: I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. ::: ::: That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible ::: reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant ::: and even secular legal bodies at the time. :: :: So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. How do you get from A to B there? Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have.< You mean before there were church buildings, and priests, and popes, trappings of civil power, and all the theological and other additions of the centuries?

No, I don’t mean that at all, nor did I say that.  Furthermore, your assumptions concerning buildings, priests, and popes are all incorrect, since even the early Church had buildings within which to meet, priests existed before the first century was even over, and the Roman Catholic church can legitimately trace the existence of their popes all the way back to the first century also.

Response:

No, it means the Church is full of sinners,< There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation.

I’m not so sure about that.  As I look over the list of Saints, it appears to me that the first couple of centuries produced more "Saints per generation" than some of the more recent centuries have. Can the percentage not be improved?

I can’t imagine how, because it’s not something that is under our control, since it is a matter rather of the individual on his or her way to sainthood (by virtue of his or her good deeds) and God. and that they are being saved by God.< How many millennia does it take?

It takes until the Eschaton. I dare say God is saving everybody for something.

You are correct certainly to the extent that some will end up in Heaven and others will end up in Hell, yes.

Response:

Oh please, give me break. Are you going to deny history and accept unnecesary violence? Get a life. Saudade

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. I can’t prove a negative (you’d have to be intellectually bankrupt to ask me to do so) but, please, don’t be shy about sharing your "proof" that "The Inquisition" was the least bit noteworthy for it’s time. Thanks in advance.

Response:

Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God.

No, it means the Church is full of sinners, and that they are being saved by God.

Response:

Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture

I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. I can’t prove a negative (you’d have to be intellectually bankrupt to ask me to do so) but, please, don’t be shy about sharing your "proof" that "The Inquisition" was the least bit noteworthy for it’s time. Thanks in advance.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time. So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God. No, it means the Church is full of sinners,<

There are supposedly a few saints per generation, if only by posthumous reputation. Can the percentage not be improved? and that they are being saved by God.<

How many millennia does it take? I dare say God is saving everybody for something.

Response:

Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture I hate to say it but, "The Inquisition" simply never was. That’s not to say that horrible things didn’t happen for horrible reasons, only that "The Inquisition" was no worse than protestant and even secular legal bodies at the time.

So the church is no better than the world, and there is no God.

Response:

well over about 700 years the death toll was really quite small comparatively. records were kept etc. Of course a Christian could never condone it ..except for what it were .. a mixture of a whole lot of stuff …. political and religuous. However if you want to see a real inquisition ….look at the frequent ragings of  the pagans against Christians etc …or look at Russia or China etc … who killed millions of Christians … the inquisition is like a match compared to the arizona wildfire comparatively .. You didnt know this did you ? robert

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture Thu Jun 27, 9:13 AM ET VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Vatican ( news – web sites), which abandoned torture after the Inquisition centuries ago, on Wednesday ratified the United Nations ( news – web sites) convention against the practice. The Vatican, a 108-acre sovereign state surrounded by Rome, said it timed its ratification of the convention to coincide with the U.N.’s day of solidarity with the victims of torture. The Vatican said it signed the convention — the 129th state to do so since it came into force in 1987 — because it considered torture "cruel, inhuman and degrading" and a grave attack on the dignity of the person. The Inquisition, a tribunal in which some heretics were tortured, was set up in 1233 and was in force until the late 15th century. The Vatican office which deals with doctrinal orthodoxy, however, was known as the Inquisition until 1908. I am happy to see that they took this step. It is very symbolic and goes a long way to preventing it’s recurrence on the part of that particular Christian faith. Brightest Blessings; Caillean `aSiobhan, Lady Carrigaholt

Response:

Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture Thu Jun 27, 9:13 AM ET VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Vatican ( news – web sites), which abandoned torture after the Inquisition centuries ago, on Wednesday ratified the United Nations ( news – web sites) convention against the practice. The Vatican, a 108-acre sovereign state surrounded by Rome, said it timed its ratification of the convention to coincide with the U.N.’s day of solidarity with the victims of torture. The Vatican said it signed the convention — the 129th state to do so since it came into force in 1987 — because it considered torture "cruel, inhuman and degrading" and a grave attack on the dignity of the person. The Inquisition, a tribunal in which some heretics were tortured, was set up in 1233 and was in force until the late 15th century. The Vatican office which deals with doctrinal orthodoxy, however, was known as the Inquisition until 1908.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Centuries After Inquisition, Vatican Slams Torture Thu Jun 27, 9:13 AM ET VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – The Vatican ( news – web sites), which abandoned torture after the Inquisition centuries ago, on Wednesday ratified the United Nations ( news – web sites) convention against the practice. The Vatican, a 108-acre sovereign state surrounded by Rome, said it timed its ratification of the convention to coincide with the U.N.’s day of solidarity with the victims of torture. The Vatican said it signed the convention — the 129th state to do so since it came into force in 1987 — because it considered torture "cruel, inhuman and degrading" and a grave attack on the dignity of the person. The Inquisition, a tribunal in which some heretics were tortured, was set up in 1233 and was in force until the late 15th century. The Vatican office which deals with doctrinal orthodoxy, however, was known as the Inquisition until 1908.

I am happy to see that they took this step. It is very symbolic and goes a long way to preventing it’s recurrence on the part of that particular Christian faith. Brightest Blessings; Caillean `aSiobhan, Lady Carrigaholt

Response: