Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

I think many people probably go to the seminary to escape. What they soon find out is that most of the going-ons of society happen in the seminary as well, but on a micro-level. Many people are disappointed by this and decide not to go on. As to the pedophilia issue, the problem is that it is very hard to diagnose someone a pedophile until they are around thirty five. Ergo, if someone enters the seminary at the age of 24, it would not be that apparent, even to themselves. I will say however, IMHO, communal religious orders tend to have a higher percentage of homosexuality as opposed to the average diocese. This is brought on by a number of factors, including a built in support system. Well, that was .02 worth, Bryan

Response:

I will say however, IMHO, communal religious orders tend to have a higher percentage of homosexuality as opposed to the average diocese. This is brought on by a number of factors, including a built in support system.

  Proof?  Studies have shown that society is somewhere around 1-2% homosexual, not the 10% pushed around.  How is it possible that so few in number in society can be greater in the Church’s seminiaries?  Studies have shown that, in fact, the Church, even in the priesthood, mirrors society.  That is the vast majority of the priests are not gay, nor pedophiles, nor having mistresses, etc. Pax Christi,  Pat "If a man wishes to come after me, he must deny his very self, take up his cross, and begin to follow in my footsteps." (Matt.16:24)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before starting this thread,=20  Yes I am a Roman Catholic and   I respect the priesthood. The recent sad case in Dallas, and the extradition of the guy from Eire to N. Ireland makes me wonder out loud. If a) you come from a strong Catholic background b) are troubled that your sexual proclivities are considered by the Church as "wrong" c) are frightened that you cannot control the way you act. Would you be tempted to try and become a priest in the hope that the celibate call would make sure that you cannot be tempted? It does not matter what those proclivities are, be an attraction to young girls or young boys, could it be that such men seek the priesthood as an escape? And please, this is not meant to be an attack on the priesthood or the Church in general, so for those who seize upon threads such as this one to launch such attacks, don’t bother. –=20 Mitch Bromage PGP Key available at keyservers or: homepage:None yet

alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before starting this thread,=20  Yes I am a Roman Catholic and   I respect the priesthood. The recent sad case in Dallas, and the extradition of the guy from Eire to N. Ireland makes me wonder out loud. If a) you come from a strong Catholic background b) are troubled that your sexual proclivities are considered by the Church as "wrong" c) are frightened that you cannot control the way you act. Would you be tempted to try and become a priest in the hope that the celibate call would make sure that you cannot be tempted? It does not matter what those proclivities are, be an attraction to young girls or young boys, could it be that such men seek the priesthood as an escape? And please, this is not meant to be an attack on the priesthood or the Church in general, so for those who seize upon threads such as this one to launch such attacks, don’t bother. –=20 Mitch Bromage PGP Key available at keyservers or: homepage:None yet

Good luck onthis thread!  It should be interesting and provocative, (meaning, with a voice), let’s hope it doesn’t get silly and vindictive! I’m not sure that too many men would get through the selection process without all this being noticed by someone: there is usually some fairly rigourous psychological testing.   But then, there is another question, too: would it really matter what a man’s "proclivities" are, if he is determined to keep to the rule of celibacy?  I remember someone once telling me, "it doesn’t matter what your sexuality is, as long as YOU know what it is and can deal with it", when referring to the ideal of celibacy. (And just as a point, since your oringinal questions are addressed to "you", meaning the reader, this reader wouldn’t have the option of the priesthood anyway!  Which is not meant to start an argument on the ordination of women; it’s just a point.  I remember once being offered a different question in a canon law exam, because the question the rest of the class were doing started out: "you are the parish priest, and a couple comes to you…"  The rest of them were going to be in that position one day!  I answered it anyway…)

Response:

writes: Mitch, I think you are very close to the mark. I find that I must respectfully disagree with Tim. I am a former seminarian, and I saw several instances in my years there where troubled young men did indeed come to the seminary. I regret to say that I observed two cases of active homosexuality. One of these men is now a priest. If you agree with the Church’s teaching on this matter, then it is clear that this person needed to get this temptation firmly under control before ordination should have been considered. I think that these men were really trying to overcome their impulses and to do what they thought was right. The seminary authorities were aware of this, by the way. We need to address these issues so that we don’t have homosexual or heterosexual scandals in the future. BTW, I feel just as strongly that men who cannot control their heterosexual urges should be dropped from consideration for the priesthood.

  The sad fact is that society essentially tells these young, confused, men, that the priesthood IS an escape.  Something they will find is untrue simetime in the future.   When one adds that many seminaries screen candidates, based, not on personalities, or possible disorders (and lets not forget, the big thing now is that homosexuality is not a disorder),  but rather wether or not they are open’ to the new wave of liberal thought, or ‘repressed’ in the orthodox teaching of the Church, you have a powder keg ready to explode.   So, a young candidate, hopeing to escape something, sses the priesthood as that escape.  Since any possible personality flaw is not looked for, but one’s view of married priests, women priests, and open sexuality. What can you expect.   After all, why should a priest, or any one, feel the need to change and follow Church teaching, if it’s all relative? Pax Christi,  Pat "If a man wishes to come after me, he must deny his very self, take up his cross, and begin to follow in my footsteps." (Matt.16:24)

Response:

If a) you come from a strong Catholic background b) are troubled that your sexual proclivities are considered by the Church as "wrong" c) are frightened that you cannot control the way you act. Would you be tempted to try and become a priest in the hope that the celibate call would make sure that you cannot be tempted?

Good question  Mitch.  Let’s see how much good conversation we can all get out of this before someone spoils it for us all. I think the answer to your question is no.  Everyone knows that as human beings we will always be subject to temptation. The priesthood won’t change that.  In fact, if it is so difficult for a person to control himself, he wouldn’t become a priest.  He would know that if he falls to temptation as a priest, he will be doing a lot of damage to the name of the Church and Her Priesthood. It does not matter what those proclivities are, be an attraction to young girls or young boys, could it be that such men seek the priesthood as an escape?

I don’t think so.  There are other ways to escape.Also, becoming a priest involves a great deal of psychological evaluations.  If someone is using the priesthood as and escape, it would come up in some way, with the results of the evaluation.  There’s no way (in my opinion) that someone that confused with that little respect for the priesthood would not be "noticed" by any psychologist.                                     Tim Haines

Response:

Mitch, I think you are very close to the mark. I find that I must respectfully disagree with Tim. I am a former seminarian, and I saw several instances in my years there where troubled young men did indeed come to the seminary. I regret to say that I observed two cases of active homosexuality. One of these men is now a priest. If you agree with the Church’s teaching on this matter, then it is clear that this person needed to get this temptation firmly under control before ordination should have been considered. I think that these men were really trying to overcome their impulses and to do what they thought was right. The seminary authorities were aware of this, by the way. We need to address these issues so that we don’t have homosexual or heterosexual scandals in the future. BTW, I feel just as strongly that men who cannot control their heterosexual urges should be dropped from consideration for the priesthood.                                         John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a) you come from a strong Catholic background b) are troubled that your sexual proclivities are considered by the Church as "wrong" c) are frightened that you cannot control the way you act. Would you be tempted to try and become a priest in the hope that the celibate call would make sure that you cannot be tempted? snip The priesthood won’t change that.  In fact, if it is so difficult for a person to control himself, he wouldn’t become a priest.  He would know that if he falls to temptation as a priest, he will be doing a lot of damage to the name of the Church and Her Priesthood. snip  There’s no way (in my opinion) that  someone that confused with that little respect for the priesthood would not be "noticed" by any psychologist.                                     Tim Haines

Response: