Question:

"The I.R.S. argues that freedom of religion does not grant freedom from taxes if churches engage in politics." November 22, 2005 Editorial Taxing an Unfriendly Church Shortly before the last election, a former rector at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, Calif., gave a fiery antipoverty and antiwar sermon. He did not endorse a presidential candidate, but he criticized President Bush’s policies in Iraq and at home. Now the Internal Revenue Service has challenged the church’s tax-exempt status. It’s important to know just how the tax police have chosen this church – and other congregations – to pursue after an election that energized churchgoers of most denominations. I.R.S. officials have said about 20 churches are being investigated for activities across the political spectrum that could jeopardize their tax status. The agency is barred by law from revealing which churches, but officials have said these targets were chosen by a team of civil servants, not political appointees, at the Treasury Department. The I.R.S. argues that freedom of religion does not grant freedom from taxes if churches engage in politics. That should mean that the 2004 presidential campaign would be an extremely fertile field. While some churches allowed Democrats to speak from the pulpit, the conservative Christians last year mounted an especially intense – and successful – drive to keep President Bush in office. Some issued voter guides that pointedly showed how their own religion was allied with Mr. Bush’s views. Several Roman Catholic bishops even suggested that a vote for John Kerry would be a mortal sin. Since the election, Republicans have held two openly political nationally televised revival meetings at churches to support Mr. Bush’s judicial nominations. If the I.R.S. is pursuing any of those churches, we certainly have not heard from them about it. All Saints in Pasadena has released copies of the letter from the I.R.S., along with tapes of the sermon and a defense of the church’s antiwar mission going back to the days when church leaders protested internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. The I.R.S. letter stated that the agency had "concerns" about a sermon by the Rev. George Regas that The Los Angeles Times called "a searing indictment of the Bush administration’s policies in Iraq." Church leaders have hired lawyers and refused to agree to a settlement that requires them to admit that the sermon was over the line drawn by the I.R.S. The Rev. J. Edwin Bacon, the rector of All Saints, told parishioners that the church would continue to resist the government’s efforts. That sounds right. With the feverish courting of religious voters these days, the I.R.S. does have the daunting task of separating politics from church policy. Still, it would seem to be hard to justify picking on a church that has a long record of opposition to wars waged by leaders from both parties.

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Robert wrote: > <George Carlin> If the churches want to take part in politics, tax the fuckers.

Tax the celibates, too.

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marasu on 23/11/2005 2:36 am wrote: > Robert wrote: >> <George Carlin> If the churches want to take part in politics, tax the >> fuckers. > Tax the celibates, too.

Sklenge on 23/11/2005 5:44 am [YES 5:44 AM! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD] wrote: This happens in a roundabouty way; people with kids get kickbacks. — Sklenge

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Robert <twpresid…@phreaker.net> wrote in news:Xns9716AEA4D464Dtwpresidentphreakern@208.49.80.124: > <George Carlin> If the churches want to take part in politics, tax the > fuckers.

Yeah, I really see Bush wanting to tax his supporters.  I’m sure any pro- Bush sermons from any pulpit will be seriously considered by the IRS. — As for the pastor, after four days of listening to science experts dismantling the case for intelligent design, he was unimpressed.  "They’re babblers," said the pastor, the Rev. Jim Grove, who leads a 40-member independent Baptist church outside of Dover. "The more Ph.D.’s you get, it seems like the further away from God you get."  (NY Times, 10-2-05)

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Somehow, any time a liberal opens his mouth, he’s accused of trying to influence politics. Any time any of the few people who have any real power or influence in the US fuck someone in the ass, the ass-fuckee thanks him for sticking it to the liberals! KC

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"KC Carter" <newmediapr…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1132893862.522275.75140 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Somehow, any time a liberal opens his mouth, he’s accused of trying to > influence politics. Any time any of the few people who have any real > power or influence in the US fuck someone in the ass, the ass-fuckee > thanks him for sticking it to the liberals! > KC

That’s what a card-carrying ACLU LIEbrul would say! — As for the pastor, after four days of listening to science experts dismantling the case for intelligent design, he was unimpressed.  "They’re babblers," said the pastor, the Rev. Jim Grove, who leads a 40-member independent Baptist church outside of Dover. "The more Ph.D.’s you get, it seems like the further away from God you get."  (NY Times, 10-2-05)

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> That’s what a card-carrying ACLU LIEbrul would say!

As we all pay higher energy and healthcare costs b/c the president has let his friends rig the market. It’s all worth it as long as we don’t research stem cells. KC

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Question:

I’ve spent more than a few hours thinking about becoming heavily involved in Buddhist studies, as well as becoming a protestant minister. BB On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:04:14 -0400, calm_hun…@webtv.net (Daniel Urtiz) wrote: >Kez, >I’ve never been a priest myself. In fact, I’ve never been much of >anything that is useful to society. But sometimes I do have an interest >in becoming a Roman Catholic priest. The fact that I am mentally ill >could hinder me with regard to gaining entry into the priesthood, but I >prefer to be optimistic about that. Never say never. >Daniel Urtiz >Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

– Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

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I was not long ago attracted to a live as a monk. However I am nowadays again not much interested in religion etc Berty

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Kim, That epistle to John could be credited to Saint Paul. Sometimes the scholars themselves are not certain wh the author is. Pseudonyms in the Bible are not uncommon. Daniel Urtiz Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

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thanks. "Daniel Urtiz" <calm_hun…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:15769-433E207C-448@storefull-3353.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kim, > That epistle to John could be credited to Saint Paul. Sometimes the > scholars themselves are not certain wh the author is. Pseudonyms in the > Bible are not uncommon. > Daniel Urtiz > Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

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John says that if you can be without a wife do so, and spend your life worshipping god.. but if you cannot be without a woman, get married … something to that effect. I dont know what bible Catholics read. I just know their beliefs – from what little I know –  are very different than mine. Kim "Daniel Urtiz" <calm_hun…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:22200-433DB0B5-506@storefull-3354.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Spheric, > I prefer that the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church be preserved. I > don’t believe priests should be allowed to marry nor do I believe women > should be ordained as priests. If those interested in becoming priests > have inclinations to the contrary, then perhaps they should become > Protestant ministers, instead of making things hard for those who prefer > keeping with tradition. > Daniel Urtiz > Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

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Spheric, I prefer that the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church be preserved. I don’t believe priests should be allowed to marry nor do I believe women should be ordained as priests. If those interested in becoming priests have inclinations to the contrary, then perhaps they should become Protestant ministers, instead of making things hard for those who prefer keeping with tradition. Daniel Urtiz Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

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When I was in the military, I was told that more than 50% of people separating from the military would go on to factory work, not use the GI Bill, and pretty much stay in the factory or in low paying jobs. Buther Boy On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:45:04 +0100 (BST), "HA SPHERIC ZION" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote: >kez wrote: >> I will have to rethink how I think about priests. I thought they rode >> bicycles and listened to The Archers on Radio 4 and had tea and biscuits >> with little old ladies in the afternoon. >> Also I will have to rethink retired soldiers. I thought they all became >> prison officers or probation or police or psych nurse assistants, led cub >> scout groups, that kind of thing >> THE WORLD IS STRANGE >> — kez >When I was in America, it was still fashionable for one to become a >priest.  At least no one gave you sideways glances when you announced >you were going to seminary.  Attitudes have certainly changed.  The >priesthood is no longer as attractive.  Priests are aging and there are >fewer youth in the pipeline.  The Catholic Church’s mishandling >paedophile priests has certainly left a black mark.  I think that young >men considering priesthood these days must contend with perceptions that >they are predatory homosexuals. >I personally believe that the Church is due for reform.  Vows of >celibacy are outdated.  Priests should be allowed to marry.  Women >should be ordained.  I will not see these reforms in my lifetime. >I renounced priesthood for a woman.  The love I felt could have never >been sublimated.  No priest should be asked such. >Former military personnel go on to be millwrights, shop stewards, >clergy, retailers, school teachers, physicians, playwrights, >footballerss, and all kinds of things. >We are bonded by our humanity.  You are my brother, for better or for >worse.  I am happy to call you my brother, kez.

– Remove the word Spam from my e-mail to contact me… http://www.PrivacySig.com/SIGbutherboySpam-gmail-black.png ~

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I am trying to imagine you as a priest. Was that before or after you were a soldier? C of E congregations are mostly little old ladies. I think they would be shocked by you raping a murdering girls in ‘Nam! — kez

Response:

Kez, I’ve never been a priest myself. In fact, I’ve never been much of anything that is useful to society. But sometimes I do have an interest in becoming a Roman Catholic priest. The fact that I am mentally ill could hinder me with regard to gaining entry into the priesthood, but I prefer to be optimistic about that. Never say never. Daniel Urtiz Constantine Catholics, unite against the police.

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"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message news:Y2l0.8251120895dd7a3e5d4933ece8d4f813@1128063562.nulluser.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> kez wrote: >> I am trying to imagine you as a priest. Was that before or after you > were a >> soldier? C of E congregations are mostly little old ladies. I think they >> would be shocked by you raping a murdering girls in ‘Nam! >> — kez > I was in Nam long before I became a priest.  It was Nam and LSD that led > me to G-d and the priesthood.  Catholic.  I had gone to college, studied > philosophy, lived on the streets at the time, had the GI Bill (American > education program for vets), learned so much it was incredible.    War > is terrible, but because of the horrors of war, I found LSD.  Through > LSD, I found G-d.  I spent some times in isolation at monasteries and > discovered that the monastic life was not for me, but the Jesuitical > approach appealed to me.  I joined the seminary and became a priest. > Let be very clear about this:  Regarding rape.  To the victors go the > spoils.  A nineteen year old god will stick his cock in anything.  And > there’s no such thing as murder in wartime.  To suggest otherwise is > lunacy.  For we become gods through acts of creation and destruction. > We create life and we are gods.  We destroy life and we are gods. > I am humble enough to understand that one day my body will fall away and > my spirit will rejoin the collective.  And on that day, I can look G-d > square in the eye and say "You made me.  I am just like you.  Now let’s > get to work." > — > HA SPHERIC ZION

I will have to rethink how I think about priests. I thought they rode bicycles and listened to The Archers on Radio 4 and had tea and biscuits with little old ladies in the afternoon. Also I will have to rethink retired soldiers. I thought they all became prison officers or probation or police or psych nurse assistants, led cub scout groups, that kind of thing THE WORLD IS STRANGE — kez

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Question:

Hunt. Death penalty. Killer. Black. Underestimate. Fanatic. Holy Orders. Spiritual theft. Church militant. Anathema. Soldier of Christ. Machista.

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Almost all. Kop killer. Soldier saint. White witch. God gestalt.

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Roman Catholic Church vs. To Reign in Hell. Kill the Anglos, before they kill you. It is convenient for evil to latch onto evil, under the guise of forgiving it. A movie: – Children of the Corn. – Lord of the Flies.

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It was before and it could again. Your mind is off limits.

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I think they’re more inclined to stealing their way into heaven than interested in earning God’s favor. The thing that could be is not expressed.

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Horror > Pornography > Drugs. Daniel Urtiz ———- "Know thyself." — Socrates.

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The Stations of the Cross, numerology, and INRI. Perhaps just five. Drop the Annointing of the Sick and Confirmation. Don’t take your medicine. Ever again. Home remedies. vs. Weird moms. Daniel Urtiz ———- "Know thyself." — Socrates.

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TO REIGN IN HELL. Daniel Urtiz ———- "Know thyself." — Socrates.

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Knowledge, home remedies, and B.S. Daniel Urtiz ———- "Know thyself." — Socrates.

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the son found her in the attic

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Question:

<HHIss…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1116517168.415012.116270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… > As Vote Nears, DeLay Attacks Bill Expanding Stem Cell Research

DeLay’s a total asshole, of course.  But I think that on the issue of stem cell research the states will gradually follow CA’s example and decide to go ahead without Fed funding.  The US can hardly afford to be left out of the potential bonanza that this presents.  Whether there will be any usable results in our lifetimes is iffy, but obviously the research should and will go forward.

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I totally agree. Also, it is impossible to keep poltical issues outside our discussions, because it is politics that takes (or tries to take) decisions that are potentially affecting us. If politics does not spare us, how can we  avoid politics. Jan "Anthony" <jaw…@nospam.aol.com> wrote in message

news:AOedndsk8NqQYRHfRVn-sg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <HHIss…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:1116517168.415012.116270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… >> As Vote Nears, DeLay Attacks Bill Expanding Stem Cell Research > DeLay’s a total asshole, of course.  But I think that on the issue of stem > cell research the states will gradually follow CA’s example and decide to > go ahead without Fed funding.  The US can hardly afford to be left out of > the potential bonanza that this presents.  Whether there will be any > usable results in our lifetimes is iffy, but obviously the research should > and will go forward.

Response:

<HHIss…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1116517168.415012.116270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Note: Is this guy for real ? Now this ? Maybe it’s a question of that > some guys want things to stay the same and not have the boat rocked so > they continue to have the so-called "preconceived" power that’s > basically based on a certain "mindset", right ? Now repeat after me, > "DeLay must go! clap! clap! clap! Delay must go! clap! clap! clap!…" > As Vote Nears, DeLay Attacks Bill Expanding Stem Cell Research > By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG > Published: May 19, 2005 > WASHINGTON, May 18 – With a vote on embryonic stem cell research > expected as early as next week, the House majority leader vowed on > Wednesday to defeat a measure that would expand federal financing of > the science.

Lets wait untill Korea and some other countries are so far ahead of us that we will never catch up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Once people understand the issue," said the majority leader, > Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, "more than 70 percent are against > embryonic stem cell research." > Mr. DeLay said there would be votes on two competing measures. One, > sponsored by Representative Michael N. Castle, Republican of Delaware, > would loosen restrictions that President Bush imposed in August 2001 on > federal financing of such research. The other, sponsored by > Representative Christopher H. Smith, Republican of New Jersey, would > encourage research on a different type of stem cell, drawn from > umbilical cord blood, by creating a national network of cord-blood > banks. > Mr. DeLay told reporters that he was "adamantly opposed" to the Castle > bill, which has 201 co-sponsors from both parties; 218 votes are > required for approval. Mr. Smith’s measure, which Mr. DeLay supports, > has 41 co-sponsors. > Because embryonic stem cells have the potential to give rise to any > cell or tissue in the body, scientists and patients’ advocates say the > research offers great prospects for treatments and cures. But to obtain > the cells, scientists must destroy human embryos, and so the research > also draws intense opposition, particularly from conservatives and the > Roman Catholic Church. > Mr. Bush’s policy permits the federal government to pay for studies > only on those colonies, called lines, of stem cells that were created > prior to his 2001 announcement, so as not to encourage the further > destruction of embryos. The Castle bill, similar to one sponsored in > the Senate by Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, would roll > back that restriction, permitting the creation of new lines from > embryos that would otherwise be discarded by fertility clinics.

The government has no business telling researchers how to do research. Well at least not like this. Of coarse certain safety standards and health hazards must be watched. But letting a church group decide that we can’t do research is insane. > The issue prompted intense debate Wednesday within the Republican > caucus, which met behind closed doors in late afternoon to discuss it. > Some Republicans were seething over a poll conducted by the Winston > Group and partly financed by the Republican Main Street Partnership, a > group of moderates. Mr. Castle is the partnership’s president. > The survey questioned voters in 13 Republican districts and found that > 66 percent supported embryonic stem cell research, while 27 percent > were opposed. But lawmakers in those districts, including > Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, the third-ranking Republican in > the House, were not told about the poll and were caught off guard by > it.

Those darn fact thingies always gettin in the way of a good snow job. > Mr. Blunt emerged tight-lipped from Wednesday’s meeting, brushing aside > questions from supporters, except to say that he did not support Mr. > Castle’s bill. > As the vote draws closer, interest groups on both sides are gearing up. > In addition to its poll, the Republican Main Street Partnership has > begun running television advertisements in support of the Castle > measure. But the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops released > a competing poll saying a majority of Americans, 52 percent, opposed > embryonic stem cell research while just 36 percent supported it.

Hmm let me guess they questioned a group of people whos names they got off a catholic church membership list. > On Wednesday, Cardinal William H. Keeler of Baltimore, the American > bishops’ chief representative on abortion, sent a letter to all members > of Congress saying the Castle bill would encourage large-scale > destruction of human embryos, which the church regards as human beings.

That would be the left over embryos from fertility clinics. They are normally thrown away. I wonder how many embryos the good cardinal has adopted or placed in homes. > "I urge you in the strongest possible terms," Cardinal Keeler wrote, > "to oppose all destructive and morally offensive proposals of this > kind."

And can we please get back our old maps. I’m tired of people telling me the world isn’t flat.

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<HHIss…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1116533806.001315.154490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > It’s you that’s bringing politics into this group. I didn’t say > anything about politics. If you came into that assumption, then it’s > you that looking at things from a partisan point of view, not me.

I’ll tell ya what. It is politics. So what! This is a political issue that affects lots of us. I am deaf (in one ear) because of nerve damage. One of the most promising areas of stem cell research is in repairing nerves. The idea that a bunch of politicians are not allowing research, or limiting research just so they can grab a few (extra) votes pisses me off no end. I say we spend 86 billion dollars on stem cell rersearch and leave Iraq alone. > I, has an hearing impaired individual that wants to hear better, have > the right to have issues with those that are against something, in this > case, the stem cells research, that would help the hearing-impaired to > hear better. > I didn’t say anything about supporting one party over another. I’d have > had the same beef with DeLay if he had been a Democrat.

You go! > The fact that some of you have responded to my posting in a certain way > shows some of your true colors. That’s it’s you that perceiving these > things from a political point of view out of an habit that you don’t > even realize it…

Oh you must be one of dem dare libruls. I’ll bet ya gots pink flowers in your garden and a commie flag in your garage.

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It’s you that’s bringing politics into this group. I didn’t say anything about politics. If you came into that assumption, then it’s you that looking at things from a partisan point of view, not me. I, has an hearing impaired individual that wants to hear better, have the right to have issues with those that are against something, in this case, the stem cells research, that would help the hearing-impaired to hear better. I didn’t say anything about supporting one party over another. I’d have had the same beef with DeLay if he had been a Democrat. The fact that some of you have responded to my posting in a certain way shows some of your true colors. That’s it’s you that perceiving these things from a political point of view out of an habit that you don’t even realize it…

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Note: Is this guy for real ? Now this ? Maybe it’s a question of that some guys want things to stay the same and not have the boat rocked so they continue to have the so-called "preconceived" power that’s basically based on a certain "mindset", right ? Now repeat after me, "DeLay must go! clap! clap! clap! Delay must go! clap! clap! clap!…" As Vote Nears, DeLay Attacks Bill Expanding Stem Cell Research By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG Published: May 19, 2005 WASHINGTON, May 18 – With a vote on embryonic stem cell research expected as early as next week, the House majority leader vowed on Wednesday to defeat a measure that would expand federal financing of the science. "Once people understand the issue," said the majority leader, Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, "more than 70 percent are against embryonic stem cell research." Mr. DeLay said there would be votes on two competing measures. One, sponsored by Representative Michael N. Castle, Republican of Delaware, would loosen restrictions that President Bush imposed in August 2001 on federal financing of such research. The other, sponsored by Representative Christopher H. Smith, Republican of New Jersey, would encourage research on a different type of stem cell, drawn from umbilical cord blood, by creating a national network of cord-blood banks. Mr. DeLay told reporters that he was "adamantly opposed" to the Castle bill, which has 201 co-sponsors from both parties; 218 votes are required for approval. Mr. Smith’s measure, which Mr. DeLay supports, has 41 co-sponsors. Because embryonic stem cells have the potential to give rise to any cell or tissue in the body, scientists and patients’ advocates say the research offers great prospects for treatments and cures. But to obtain the cells, scientists must destroy human embryos, and so the research also draws intense opposition, particularly from conservatives and the Roman Catholic Church. Mr. Bush’s policy permits the federal government to pay for studies only on those colonies, called lines, of stem cells that were created prior to his 2001 announcement, so as not to encourage the further destruction of embryos. The Castle bill, similar to one sponsored in the Senate by Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania, would roll back that restriction, permitting the creation of new lines from embryos that would otherwise be discarded by fertility clinics. The issue prompted intense debate Wednesday within the Republican caucus, which met behind closed doors in late afternoon to discuss it. Some Republicans were seething over a poll conducted by the Winston Group and partly financed by the Republican Main Street Partnership, a group of moderates. Mr. Castle is the partnership’s president. The survey questioned voters in 13 Republican districts and found that 66 percent supported embryonic stem cell research, while 27 percent were opposed. But lawmakers in those districts, including Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, the third-ranking Republican in the House, were not told about the poll and were caught off guard by it. Mr. Blunt emerged tight-lipped from Wednesday’s meeting, brushing aside questions from supporters, except to say that he did not support Mr. Castle’s bill. As the vote draws closer, interest groups on both sides are gearing up. In addition to its poll, the Republican Main Street Partnership has begun running television advertisements in support of the Castle measure. But the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops released a competing poll saying a majority of Americans, 52 percent, opposed embryonic stem cell research while just 36 percent supported it. On Wednesday, Cardinal William H. Keeler of Baltimore, the American bishops’ chief representative on abortion, sent a letter to all members of Congress saying the Castle bill would encourage large-scale destruction of human embryos, which the church regards as human beings. "I urge you in the strongest possible terms," Cardinal Keeler wrote, "to oppose all destructive and morally offensive proposals of this kind."

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Question:

"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message news:Y2l0.9eae0d9afd6861f7f0cb251b082e4c11@1114551619.nulluser.com… > That’s > my story and I’m sticking to it.

you should run for public office! m.

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"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message news:Y2l0.9eae0d9afd6861f7f0cb251b082e4c11@1114551619.nulluser.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My name is John Black.  I was in the US military, fought in Vietnam, > came home, got a job in law enforcement and did that for a number of > years before becoming a Roman Catholic priest.  I eventually left the > Church and went into publishing, which is what I do now.  I am a ‘mover > and shaker’ in the publishing and fashion world, but my personal life is > a mess.  I have a son and a daughter, but my son is involved with > treacherous vixen who tried to have her wealthy old husband killed. > This woman is currently scheming to have an old love of my son’s > eliminated so she can have him for herself.  My daughther is married to > a US Marine, but the guy is a bit of a doofus and is currently on the > "Missing In Action" list with the military.  My wife is missing and > presumed dead, which recently prompted me to ask my wife’s ex-husband’s > ex-wife to marry me.  I am a drug addict, but I’m getting clean.  That’s > my story and I’m sticking to it. > — > HA SPHERIC ZION

as this is a schizophrenia support group, I think you should have included your mental health history — kes

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"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message news:Y2l0.31f589ccd176192b0cf9ef26c4b95042@1114580258.nulluser.com > Are we sharing group delusions now or are the headshrinks wrong?

I don’t remember.

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"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message news:Y2l0.31f589ccd176192b0cf9ef26c4b95042@1114580258.nulluser.com… > Considering that the NHS monitors this channel, that would be > ill-advised.  I love the Tories, but I bedded Hillary Clinton in the > early 90s (my god but that woman is a firebrand in the sack!) and I’m > fairly certain that qualifies as a rules violation, hence my membership > is no longer in good standing.  For the record, I never bedded Maggie > Thatcher, although I masturbated frequently during TV coverage of the > Falklands campaign.  Have you ever punched an Argentine?  I have and > it’s damned good sport.  Are we sharing group delusions now or are the > headshrinks wrong? > — > HA SPHERIC ZION

Shucks.  I was the one that gave Bill Clinton the blow job and then quickly swopped skirts with the Lewinsky woman, I’d hoped they’d never find out.

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"Lothar Swordfist" <lothar.s…@sci.fi> wrote in message > >"HA SPHERIC ZION" <z…@harsh.epic.com> wrote in message > >> Are we sharing group delusions now or are the headshrinks wrong? > This delusion is mine, all mine. MINE MINE MINE, dammit! Nooo..don’t > take it away from me. Nooo! sob sob.. > — > Akseli > Young, free and mostly harmless.

mojo has gone from mob delusion to Birdy defiler. Recycled parts are just a disclaimer of a vast conspiracy that gripped him. "Tweet, Tweet." Oh no, the birds have become MY group delusion! A good anti-psychotic should SHRINK group delusions like that from the size of a half-mile in diameter bubble down to the size of a hemorrhoid in several months flat. "Step away from the methane emission!" This wasn’t about farting, but the group dynamic could be much the same if the birds all get suicidally depressed everytime I come ’round. ******************************************************* Anything But Down Sheryl Crow _____ I light your cigarettes I bring you apples from the vine How quickly you forget I run the bath and pour the wine I bring you everything that floats into your mind But you don’t bring me anything but down You don’t bring me anything but down You don’t bring me anything but down When you come ’round You are a raging sea I pull myself out everyday I plea insanity Cause I can’t leave but I can’t stay You say, won’t you come find me and yes is what I say You don’t bring me anything but down You don’t bring me anything but down Everything is crashing to the ground Maybe I’m not your perfect kind Maybe I’m not what you had in mind Maybe we’re just killing time You with your silky words And your eyes of green and blue You with your steel beliefs That don’t match anything you do It was so much easier before you became you You don’t bring me anything but down You don’t bring me anything but down Everything just crashes to the ground When you come around When you come around No more playing seek and hide No more long and wasted nights Can’t you make it easy on yourself I know you wish you were strong You wish you were never wrong Well, I got some wishes of my own

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Question:

In the face of continual news of the horrendous increases in child abuse in recent years, the yahoos still deny it and claim it’s stable or dropping…often referring to "the rates" ignoring, of course, that they total population of children grows along with the total population of adults. Logic, oh logic, the victim of these selfish little social retards. The News-Enterprise Elizabethtown, Ky. Homes for abused children need aid By JOHN FRIEDLEIN Down a country road, past hay bales and rolling fields of mustard grass, stands a group of brick buildings that offer sanctuary from abuse and neglect. … State and federal money funds privately operated residential facilities like these as well as foster care programs. Government money also pays for prevention initiatives and kinship care, which places children in relatives’ homes. The problem is child-service groups must provide out-of-home care to more children while resources remain relatively flat. "There’s not enough state funding; there’s not enough federal funding," said Jill Seyfred, executive director of Prevent Child Abuse Kentucky. ….. "Dealing with child abuse is vitally important and should take priority," he said. It is a growing problem. During the fiscal year that ended last June, more than 3,700 children suffered abuse and neglect in Hardin and seven surrounding counties, Seyfred said. The statewide total topped 64,000, which is up almost 20,000 compared to eight years ago, according to the Child Welfare League of America. Seyfred said reports have increased during the past 10 years partly because of more abuse and greater awareness. Neglect shows up most on these reports. This includes children who were not properly fed, clothed or attended to by a doctor. It isn’t a matter of not having enough money to care for a child; it’s just not doing it. "Child abuse happens at all socio-economic levels and all races," Seyfred said. She gave another reason for the increase: "We’re seeing a growing number of children who have been exposed to meth labs." In fact, local police say they recently busted a meth lab that also was the site of a slumber party. …….. Full story at the link below…… <http://www.newsenterpriseonline.com/articles/2005/04/26/news/news03.txt> ……..this thread dedicated in perpetuity to the memory of Ferneal, long may he/she/it rave…uhn, wave…….. 0:->

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… >> That one sounds a lot like Dave Pelzer’s background, doesn’t it? > Only he >> wasn’t as lucky as that poor lad in this article; but he did live to > become >> a good human being, unlike so many here.  It takes all kinds. > Most anti-CPS folks do not, and do not want to, know Dave’s story. >> Regards, >> Pop > 0:->

So?  Who cares?  I certainly don’t.  Their bigotry and hatred will pay off for them, surely, but not as they expect it to.  It takes all kinds.

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Kane’s Komments Kane: bobber, things aren’t looking good for your NAMBLA and other child molestor friends, nor, for that matter, those that would sexually assualt adults either. We, this society, are starting to catch on, finally, to both the damage to society by the trauma, lifelong in many instances, that victims suffer, and the bigger truth…..that the sickos that do these things need far closer supervision, even if it costs. Nyahnyahnyahnyaaaahnyahnyah…0:-> More From The Mobile Register Controlling child sexual predators Sunday, May 01, 2005 By PAT GUYTON Special to the Register In light of increasing horror stories about convicted child molesters who are back in communities continuing to molest and even murder their young victims, citizens and politicians around the country are scrambling for some way to fix the problem. But there is no one "silver bullet," and there are no cheap solutions. First, the problem as seen from the just the tip of the iceberg:…….. http://www.al.com/opinion/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1114… http://tinyurl.com/a6jkp Kane: More, bobber the apologist…and you really won’t like this, given you are so scorched by the truth….0:->  You especially won’t care for the profiling, considering who you defend and are buddies with here. North County Times Online Edition. Last modified Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:36 PM PDT Most sex offenders know their victims well, experts say By: WILLIAM FINN BENNETT – Staff Writer The kidnap and murder of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion riveted the nation nearly three years ago. After being abducted from her Orange County neighborhood, her nude body was found the next day in the hills west of Lake Elsinore. She had been sexually assaulted and then asphyxiated. Five months before that, in February 2002, a similar story played itself out in San Diego County when Danielle van Dam was kidnapped from her quiet, upscale neighborhood and murdered. In each case, a suspect was arrested. In each case, a jury found him guilty. Two more child predators were removed from society. Finally, parents could breathe a sigh of relief. But should they? While most parents spend a good amount of time cautioning their children about strangers, experts agree that in reality, it’s much more likely a child will be victimized by someone they know. It could be a youth pastor, a teacher, a trusted family friend or —- even more likely —- a relative. The reality Two experts on sex offenders estimate that 80 percent to 90 percent or more of all child molestations are committed by people who know the victim. And sex offenders who abduct children they don’t know make up only about 5 percent of those who have served time in state prison, said Doris Mahlum, a district administrator for the California Department of Corrections Parole Division. The California attorney general’s office estimates that there are about 85,000 registered sex offenders living in the state. According to the Megan’s Law database, www.meganslaw.ca.gov, there are 2,301 registered sex offenders living in Riverside County and 2,870 registered offenders in San Diego County. For years, Mahlum worked one-on-one with hundreds of convicted child molesters at Soledad State Prison. And that contact gave her a keen perception of how their minds work, she said in a recent interview. The inner workings………….. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/05/01/news/top_stories/22_39_364… http://tinyurl.com/cqa2u

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One of the points I’ve made, but possibly not strongly enough, bobber, is that not only do molestors kill to remove witnesses, but they also do it for the sexual kicks. You are sick, bobber, very. Get your head examined. Stop trying to find ways to protect molesters and stop babbling your nonsense. You are making yourself sicker. 0;-> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151999,00.html Molesters Often Strike Again Saturday, April 16, 2005 By Catherine Donaldson-Evans Jessica Lunsford (search) and Jetseta Gage (search): two young girls recently kidnapped, molested and killed, allegedly by men who authorities said are convicted, registered sex offenders who had served time and were back in the community. Criminologists say it’s all too frequent that the perpetrator is a pathological sexual predator, as in the case of Jessica’s alleged killer in Florida, John Evander Couey (search), and Roger Paul Bentley (search), who Iowa police say murdered Jetseta. "It happens all the time," said Louis B. Schlesinger, a forensic psychologist specializing in criminal behavior and sex crimes at John J. College of Criminal Justice (search) in New York. "The dangerous ones have a high recidivism rate." According to data from the FBI’s National Crime Information Center (search), there are 381,967 entries for sex offenders in the NCIC Sex Offender Registration File – though not all states require sex offenders to be registered in the same way and some offenders are entered into the database for more than one state. The Jessica Lunsford case so outraged her Florida community that a state representative, Charles Dean, said he’s introducing a bill called the "Jessica Lunsford Act" that would, among other things, require convicted sex offenders to wear electronic tracking devices. "It’s a matter of us doing the job right. We need to find the loopholes, find the cracks," Dean told FOX News. The reason many convicted sex offenders go out and molest more children, say sociologists and criminologists, is similar to why alcoholics continue to drink. "Their sexual preference is for children. They have a compulsion to molest children," said Keith F. Durkin, a criminologist at Ohio Northern University (search) and an expert in the study of pedophilia. "Many, if not all, will molest children until the day they die. They’re dangerous and they’re going to reoffend." But there aren’t accurate numbers about the rate of recidivism among child molesters, since many of their repeat offenses go unreported. Not only are they almost certain to continue sexually abusing children, but some eventually kill their young victims – more often than not for the purpose of keeping them quiet. "Usually it’s to cover up the crime so the victim won’t say who he is," Schlesinger said. Nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford was snatched from her bedroom last month by a drug-addled Couey, police said. Couey was staying with relatives in a trailer just across from where Jessica lived with her father and grandparents in Citrus County (search), Fla. After holding her for a few days and sexually assaulting her, police said Couey, 46, killed the little girl and buried her body only a few hundred yards from her house. The coroner ruled that Jessica died by asphyxiation. Bentley, 37, is accused of abducting 10-year-old Jetseta from her home in Cedar Rapids (search), Iowa, last week and killing her. Her cause of death also was found to be asphyxiation, and authorities said there was evidence the mentally challenged girl had been molested. Bentley’s brother James Bentley, whom Jetseta’s mother dated five years ago, also allegedly sexually abused Jetseta and is in jail awaiting trial on those charges. It’s unlikely that there’s any sort of chain reaction element to such sexual crimes against children, according to experts. "The copycat value and the deterrent of being caught have minimal impact," said Jeffrey Ian Ross, a criminologist at the University of Baltimore (search). "It’s not a crime in which reason prevails." But a number of sex offenders do know they can’t be trusted around kids. Couey reportedly was so aware of his problem that he’d pleaded for help in the past, saying he was a danger to children because he couldn’t stop himself from sexually abusing them. That compulsion is what makes it next to impossible to "cure" chronic child molesters. "They’re basically untreatable," Schlesinger said. "They’re predatory, compulsive, repetitive offenders. These are very dangerous people, aroused by children. That’s part of their sexuality. It’s very, very difficult to change that." In spite of that reality, many still are only serving fractions of their sentences – which often are light to begin with. "The bottom line is that almost all these offenders will get out because they don’t have any laws barring them from getting out," Schlesinger said. "They’re allowed back in the community because the court system is following the law." That’s why parents and others in the community frequently are helpless to bring about any real change to prevent children from falling prey to molesters living in the area. "The public is getting increasingly upset when this happens," Ross said, "but they feel their hands are tied." People can take action by writing letters to local newspapers and Congress, he said. Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (search), said the existing legislation is a good start but needs to be beefed up – especially since authorities usually must rely on the offenders themselves to notify them of who and where they are. Megan’s Law (search) requires all 50 states to register sex offenders but leaves the details up to the individual states. The burden generally is on the offenders to register themselves and alert officials when they move. The sex offender registries are available online and provide basic information about and photographs of those in the database. "States should be more active in notification," Allen told FOX News. "We think the Web sites are great, but that’s not enough. Megan’s Law ought to be strengthened in every state." In the meantime, he said, parents need to take advantage of the resources already available to them and talk with their children so they know where they are and who they’re with. "Every parent needs to go to these Web sites and find out who the registered sex offenders are in their community," Allen told FOX. Ross believes cases such as Jessica’s and Jetseta’s could have an impact on legislation if there’s enough public reaction to elicit federal, rather than state, sponsorship of a tougher law. He predicted that at the very least, the conditions for releasing and paroling jailed sex offenders will tighten as a result of the murders of Jessica, Jetseta and other children in similar situations. "There may well be a strong enough backlash," Ross said. "These kinds of cases have enormous repercussions. They tug at the heartstrings of most Americans who have children." But others are more skeptical that any real progress will be made in controlling the problem of convicted sex offenders committing more crimes against children. "There will be a call for increased monitoring that will then fall by the wayside," said university criminologist Durkin, who believes convicted child molesters should be placed in special communities just for them. "But we have to take a close look at these repetitive sex offenders as a country. When we’re putting them in the community, we’re putting children at risk." FOX News’ Heather Nauert and Martha MacCallum contributed to this report. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151999,00.html

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KANE’S COMMENTARY ON CHILD AND FAMILY NEWS. Things are definately NOT looking up for some of the strange folks on these newsgroups that rely on emotion and twisting facts…nosiree. This commentary seems full of just the thing to confound them…again. This first article on sexual abuse trauma includes reference to neurological proof being found for lost or suppressed memory from trauma. Oooo…that’s going to make our nutsos that don’t believe in this phenomena upset..but then, they don’t pay any attention to facts, even science, that would confound their views. Further, the level of sexual abuse that isn’t reported until adulthood suggests there is a good deal more of it than the 10% reported to CPS would suggest. And estimates that 90% is NEVER reported. Hmmm…how would they know that? By asking adults and finding out how much was done to them and never reported, until the interview as an adult. CHILD sex abuse policy recommendations published in Science … Medical News Today – UK A University of Oregon psychologist is calling for the creation of a new national institute on child abuse and interpersonal violence in a major policy article … <http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23252> Kane: Well now. Have we seen the US influenced by foreign country’s laws and views..why yes, we have, most certainly. Will this one come across the waters? I kinda think it’s pretty much here already. I’m on the fence on this one. For malicious persecution one should sue, but then, this isn’t about malicious intent, just doing one’s job. What do YOU think…oh let me see…who should it be? Okay YOU greegor. What do YOU think? PARENTS Wrongly Accused of Child Abuse Cannot Sue Scotsman – UK … He said the seriousness of child abuse as a social problem demanded that health professionals should not be subject to potentially conflicting duties when … <http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4433532> Kane: Now why would Texas think there is underreporting of abuse, eh? 0:-> TEXAS AG provides materials to help recognize child abuse Denton Record Chronicle (subscription) – Denton,TX,USA Worry over how many cases of child abuse remain unreported each year led to the creation of a video and handbook that teach people who work with children how … <http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D89K2Q800.html> Kane: Now here’s a story. A woman involved that was NOT abused, as a child, but her two adopted sibs WERE, by her own biological father. Got to be tough for a kid to grow up thinking everything was okay, and as an adult find out something like this. NATIONAL Child Abuse Prevention Month KIMT – Mason City,IA,USA … themselves what’s approriate.". National Child Abuse Prevention Month does more than shed light on the problem of physical abuse. It also … <http://www.kimt.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=KIMT/MGArticle/IMT_Bas…> Kane: So now, we have those in the group that think shaken baby syndrom can be mimiced by other things…and whose to say. It’s probably very true…but I resent the implication that INVESTIGATIONS should not happen when children DO exhibit the signs of SBS and those other things as well, without knowing one or the other happened. That logic is about like having doctors give up Dx work based on there being a set of diagnostic indicators that can look like more than one disease…Let’s just assume it’s the less serious one and move on, eh? How does that work with a baby that has the signs of SBS….because it COULD be something else, let’s don’t submit the poor helpless little victim to more victimization by doing Dx…hokay, you bright lights in this ng? 0:-> NEVER Shake Baby: It’s National Child Abuse Prevention Month SanDiego Channel.com – San Diego,CA,USA San Diego County Supervisor Pam Slater-Price showed the dangers of shaken baby syndrome Thursday as part of National Child Abuse Prevention month. … <http://www.10news.com/health/4403982/detail.html> Kane: Well, that’s it for this round. Sadly these are coming too fast for me to keep up, and I have to reject many worthy stories, but if you have some, feel free to post them…and if you stick to this thread people will know right were to look for them. Oh, and you anti Government, anti Authority, anti CPS, anti a Brain, who have stories you feel are critical of CPS, hey…you are welcome too. Join right in. The comparisons will be interesting to observe. Give your best shot. 0:->

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<kane_poh…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1114141444.390208.313450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com…   <<<snipped if anybody bothered to read it I would crap a loaf>>> > Give your best shot. 0:->

Aren’t you protected by the Migratory Bird Act,  cuckoo? 4 n-0

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4naught wrote: > <kane_poh…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1114141444.390208.313450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… >   <<<snipped if anybody bothered to read it I would crap a loaf>>> > > Give your best shot. 0:-> > Aren’t you protected by the Migratory Bird Act,  cuckoo? > 4 n-0

THAT’S your "best shot?" You need to learn to stroke faster, troll. Yours is a lame flame of placid flacid. 0:->

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On 21 Apr 2005 kane_poh…@yahoo.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 4naught wrote: > > <kane_poh…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1114141444.390208.313450@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… > >   <<<snipped if anybody bothered to read it I would crap a loaf>>> > > > Give your best shot. 0:-> > > Aren’t you protected by the Migratory Bird Act,  cuckoo? > > 4 n-0 > THAT’S your "best shot?" You need to learn to stroke faster, troll. > Yours is a lame flame of placid flacid. > 0:->

And Kane0 is a spokeperson for the anti-spanking zealotS! ;-) Doan

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Kane comments on news of child protection. Kane: This is a repeat of an early post, but bears revisiting for the serious implications. A debate in this ng arose over the supposed reduction in child abuse reflected in the reduced reports of substantiated occurances investigated by CPS. There are many factors that might reduce the REPORTING, but many factors that do no support any actual reduction, or even stablization of the number of occurances. If nothing else the growing population of our country keeps the numbers climbing. People haven’t changed all that much. Sadly. UO expert calls for honest fight against child sex abuse The Register-Guard – Eugene,Oregon,USA … UO psychology professor Jennifer Freyd and co-authors recommend establishment of a national institute of child abuse, better research and expansion of a … <http://www.registerguard.com/news/2005/04/22/a1.childsexabuse.0422.html> CHILD-ABUSE prevention begins at home I-Newswire.com  (press release) – USA … suffering from neglect, followed by physical and sexual abuse, and emotional or psychological maltreatment, according to a National Child Abuse and Neglect … <http://i-newswire.com/pr16436.html> CHILD abuse prevention summit planned Dover Community News – Dover,NH,USA … April is Child Abuse Prevention Month. This means that there is an opportunity to celebrate your community by celebrating children and families. … <http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/dover/04222005/news/38302.htm> ATTORNEY General Unveils Child Abuse Video And Handbook KWTX – Waco,TX,USA The video and handbook, "What Can We Do About Child Abuse?" guide people through how to report child abuse and advises them on ways to talk with children … <http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/1497862.html> CHURCH wants to put a stop to child abuse News 14 Charlotte – Charlotte,NC,USA CHARLOTTE, NC — A Charlotte church is speaking out about sexual abuse among children in hopes of spreading awareness about the problem. … <http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/local_news/?ArID=92009&SecID=2>

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Kane comments on news of child protection interest…and more. Kane: This first story speaks so eloquently to the real issues, the ones so commonly, callously, and offhandedly lied about in this ng by some of you. GROUP trying to prevent child sex abuse by getting adults to … Dateline Alabama – Birmingham,AL,USA … will be part of a child abuse prevention advisory committee being organized by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, according to Marsha Gilmer … <http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050423/APN…> Kane: I love it when parents will not tolerate abuse, and stories like this warm my heart, after all those I’ve seen that are of parents being the abusers. These parents kicked butt. TEACHER-CHILD Abuse WNCT – Greenville,NC,USA Peedie Newton is nine years old and attends Samuel Vick elementary school. His parents say they now know what their child has been going through at school. … <http://www.wnct.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WNCT/MGArticle/NCT_Bas…>

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Kane’s Komments…… But don’t the statistics show the "rate" has been the same for decades? Doesn’t that mean the number is the same…oh, wait….0:-> Kane: You’ll find that this first story blows some rather large holes in the claims made in this ng about how and why states can’t cope. RISE in Child Abuse Called National ‘Epidemic’ ABC News – USA WASHINGTON, April 25, 2005 — Every year, hundreds of thousands of children are abused and neglected in the United States. Child … ""It is truly an epidemic," said Shay Bilchik, president and chief executive of Child Welfare League of America. "And we’ve seen the tremendous increase over the last 20 years." States have the primary responsibility for dealing with abused children. Many have been unable to keep pace with the number of cases, despite increases in funding from the federal government. " <http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=701293&page=1> Kane: Children put in washing machines and dryers? Yah got to be kiddin’ This is a classic WDNNSCPS kind of story. Children as disposable possessions.  What astounds me is that if you left an adult, who say was disabled and could not get out by themselves, in a locked car in the heat YOU WOULD BE CHARGE WITH AND CONVICTED OF MURDER, but because it’s a child, your own, you will have lessor charges brought and often either not convicted, or just do a bit of parole. <http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90592&page=1> CHILD abuse can leave big scars Times Record News – Wichita Falls,TX,USA … emotionally.". Wildman, the program director for Child Advocates in Wichita Falls, knows too well there’s no age limit to child abuse. … <http://www.timesrecordnews.com/trn/local_news/article/0,1891,TRN_5784…> GIVING victims of child abuse HOPE Daily Eastern News (subscription) – Charleston,IL,USA April is Child Abuse Prevention Month, and half of the children who join children’s advocacy programs have experienced or witnessed domestic violence. … <http://www.thedailyeasternnews.com/news/2005/04/26/News/Giving.Victim…> FILMMAKER, local experts shed light on child abuse The News-Review – Roseburg,OR,USA … the honored guest at the event presented by UCC’s Cultural Enrichment Committee in conjunction with the local movement, the Child Abuse Prevention Partnership. … <http://www.newsreview.info/article/20050424/NEWS/104250042>

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<kane_poh…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1114535573.802333.112450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… > Kane’s Komments……

What is a Kane? What is a "Komments" I can tell you what Kane is: a Liar. > Kane: Children put in washing machines and dryers? Yah got to be > kiddin’

 > <http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90592&page=1> Nope you ain’t "kidding" you are LYING. (same thing you accuse others of) Nothing at all in this story about "Children being put in dryers" you added dryers to the content. That is fraudulant.  Is it all you can do? Liar. al _ _  "If you don’t recall, I have helped people who did abuse or neglect their children get their children back from CPS."  - Dan Sullivan ascps http://tinyurl.com/7yoql

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Kane’s Komments Kane, well we start of this week, the first week of May, with a little evidence of the insignificant rate of child sexual abuse…that some would like us to believe, 0;->. Not that it’s the least funny. Kane: This first story concerns an apparent suicide. Oh, bobber, if only they had just had your liberal attitude about sex with minors, who likely consented, he would have never been charged, and probably wouldn’t have jumped to his death. BooHoo. The Telegraph ALTON — The body of a man who jumped from the Clark Bridge and presumably died Wednesday remained lost Thursday in the frigid waters of the Mississippi River. Late Thursday afternoon, Alton Police Chief Chris Sullivan said authorities believe the man was Franklin Eugene Carver, 67, of the 2700 block of Greenwood Lane in Godfrey, based on "strong circumstantial evidence." …. However, Carver had a recent criminal record and is an Illinois Registered Sex Offender, where he is listed as a sexual predator. Last June, the Madison County State’s Attorney’s Office charged Carver with six sex abuse charges in the molestation of a girl over a two-year period. They charged Carver with predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, who was under the age of 13, between May and September 2002. Authorities also charged him with five counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse in the molestation of the same girl between June 5, 2003, and June 25, 2004, when the girl was over 13 but under 17. Carver was a friend of the victim’s family, Lt. John Lakin, chief of detectives for the Madison County Sheriff’s Department, said last year. In 1993, Carver was charged with stalking a woman; he pleaded guilty to attempted stalking and was sentenced to 18 months of probation and fined… Kane: He seems like a decent sort, doesn’t he bobber? Just a typical May December romance gone bad because of the nasty people that think it’s not okay and went and put him on the sex offender registry. It’s THEIR fault he’s dead, right bobber? http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14438881&BRD=1719&PAG=461&d… http://tinyurl.com/abd2c Kane: Here’s how bobber and others often are fooled by reality. This recounts, in a recent sexual abuse/murder trial, how children testify tends to make them less believable….no matter that they are in fact telling the truth. The Jackson trial starts to look less like kids lying and more like the media making it a point to NOT print what they know about children’s testimony. Oh well. That makes bobber the swift happy so it can’t all be bad. PE News California It’s risky when child takes stand, experts say 11:42 PM PDT on Thursday, April 28, 2005 By LISA O’NEILL HILL and DOUGLAS QUAN / The Press-Enterprise INLAND child sexual-assault trials in 2004 Source: Riverside and San Bernardino County district attorneys’ offices The teenager testified with her left hand pressed to the side of her face to shield her view of Alejandro Avila, the man she said sexually abused her when she was 7. She sobbed, sometimes talking so quietly that she was barely audible. Although prosecutors had prepared the 14-year-old girl for court, they did not know how well she would hold up on the witness stand, a concern any time a child testifies. Children are considered key witnesses in several high-profile court cases, including the Michael Jackson molestation trial and the case of a Wisconsin man accused of organizing a child-sex ring linked to a former Riverside police officer. Testimony from children can be crucial to winning a case. Yet putting children on the stand can be risky, experts say. ….  ’She Froze’ Last year in another case, a 6-year-old girl who had been sexually assaulted and kidnapped by her father’s roommate could not speak when Nelson called her as a witness. "She never testified. She froze. Judge Thierbach took a break. She froze again," Nelson said. "Children react in all different ways." In this instance, the defendant, Charles Mix, was convicted on the strength of photographs and other evidence. Nelson said jurors tend to empathize with children who have to testify. "I would admit to you that there is a certain sympathy factor, especially with young children," she said. "Sure, I think it pulls at people’s heartstrings." Reach Lisa O’Neill Hill at loneillh…@pe.com or (951 )368-9462 Reach Douglas Quan at dq…@pe.com or (951) 368-9479 http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_D_kidwits29…. http://tinyurl.com/85bvp Kane: The following is a story with a good ending. Not happy, but good. Unlike so many stories of sexual abuse that end with death for the child. April 30, 2005 Assault survivors struggle to move on Sexual violence a daily dilemma for victims BY ELESKA AUBESPIN FLORIDA TODAY Survivor. Jane McClain, a victim of domestic abuse and sexual violence, talks about her experiences. Tim Shortt, FLORIDA TODAY Enlarge this image Facts and figures # Rape is one of the most under-reported crimes in the United States. # Sexual violence includes sexual assault, rape, incest, childhood sexual abuse or molestation. # Sexual assault includes any physical contact of a sexual nature to which a person did not consent. By the numbers 80%: Number of assaults that occur while the victim or perpetrator is under the influence of drugs or alcohol. 70%: Number of assaults committed by an acquaintance. 44%: Rape victims younger than 18. Three out of 20 are younger than 12. 16%: Approximate number of American women who are victims of an attack. 3%: Approximate number of American men who are victims of an attack. 2 minutes: How often someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted. — Sources: Women’s Center, Melbourne, Florida Department of Health,Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network,www.rainn.org For years, Jane McClain struggled with a whispering voice in her head. The voice chipped away at her self-esteem. It blamed her for the incest during childhood and for the sexual violence in her two marriages. Although untrue, that voice was McClain’s own, and it had hurt her long enough. It was time for help. http://tinyurl.com/7qyom

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Kane’s Komments and News on Child Protection Kane: Oh you child abusers are in for it in this county. Tsk. 0:-> OFFICIALS laud efforts to curb child abuse Benton County Daily Record – Bentonville,AR,USA BENTONVILLE — As part of Child Abuse Awareness Month, a Step Up For Justice rally on the square Friday honored those in the county who work to prosecute … <http://nwanews.com/story.php?paper=bcdr&section=News&storyid=20056> Kane: bobber the swift, you need to get right ON this one. Look at this, a lady ARRESSTED mind you just for her 8 year old wandering the street. This is a cryin’ shame. (Others, while bobber is boohooing over this pooooooor mother and her being unfaired against, go and read     <churchlady voice> THE REST OF THE STORY </churchlady voice> LANCASTER Woman Arrested for Child Abuse KABC – Los Angeles,CA,USA LANCASTER (CNS) — A 28-year-old Lancaster woman was behind bars tonight on suspicion of child abuse after her 8-year-old son was found wandering the streets … <http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/043005_nw_lancaster_abuse.html> Now why, I ask you, should the authorities come down on this poor woman so hard?

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… > LANCASTER Woman Arrested for Child Abuse > KABC – Los Angeles,CA,USA > LANCASTER (CNS) — A 28-year-old Lancaster woman was behind bars > tonight > on suspicion of child abuse after her 8-year-old son was found > wandering > the streets … > <http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/043005_nw_lancaster_abuse.html>

That one sounds a lot like Dave Pelzer’s background, doesn’t it?  Only he wasn’t as lucky as that poor lad in this article; but he did live to become a good human being, unlike so many here.  It takes all kinds. Regards, Pop

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pop wrote: > … > > LANCASTER Woman Arrested for Child Abuse > > KABC – Los Angeles,CA,USA > > LANCASTER (CNS) — A 28-year-old Lancaster woman was behind bars > > tonight > > on suspicion of child abuse after her 8-year-old son was found > > wandering > > the streets … > > <http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/043005_nw_lancaster_abuse.html> > That one sounds a lot like Dave Pelzer’s background, doesn’t it? Only he > wasn’t as lucky as that poor lad in this article; but he did live to become > a good human being, unlike so many here.  It takes all kinds.

Most anti-CPS folks do not, and do not want to, know Dave’s story. > Regards, > Pop

0:->

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Kane’s Komments Kane: Update on prior story of stabbing deaths of two children. Seems they are charging the mother, and also looking into a death of another child some years ago….as I pointed out to Doug, there are deaths of children that cannot be accounted for and fire is a pretty good coverup…we’ll see how this one turns out. But comparing foster and the general population to make assumptions and claims about rates of murder and abuse between the two is farcical fantasy. 0:-> ABCNEWS…… Mother Charged in Stabbing Deaths of Kids Mother Charged in Stabbing Deaths of 9-Year-Old Son and 3-Year-Old Daughter Hoffman Estates, Ill., police investigators walk up to the home of Nikolai and Tonya Vasilev, where authorities say their two children, Christian and Gracie, were found Wednesday night stabbed to death, Thursday, April 28, 2005. Authorities were questioning the parents Thursday after finding several knives they believe were the murder weapons, police said. By NICOLE ZIEGLER DIZON Associated Press Writer The Associated PressThe Associated Press HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. Apr 29, 2005 – The mother of a 9-year-old boy and 3-year-old girl who were fatally stabbed more than 100 times each inside their suburban Chicago home was charged Friday with two counts of first-degree murder, authorities said. Tonya Vasilev, 34, was expected to appear in bond court later Friday. Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children’s father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening. ……….full story at: http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=715361

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Kane’s Komments Kane: Notice how often in this stories you run into information that puts the lie to so much garbage in this ng. For instance, the idea that states do NOT want openness and public disclosure of what they do. The truth is some of you here are ignorant as posts, or know the truth and have been lying by omission…hiding that truth. This story brings out what CPS actually DOES do, routinely, as part of it’s regular duties. Enjoy. >From the next link……………

""Sometimes we’re just looked at like the boogeymen who only remove kids, and that’s not the way it is," said Janet Arnold, a family service caseworker. Arnold is tasked with working directly with families in which abuse has occurred or reported. Often, identifying families who are high risk and steering them in the direction of a volume of services such as counseling, parenting classes, utility assistance and more is the key to preventing future abuse. "Sometimes just paying their utility (bill) gets them past the bad spot. … So we do a whole lot more than the community is aware of," McCall said. Still, the numbers of abuse cases in DeSoto Parish has steadily increased. Last year, there were 183 cases of abuse and neglect investigated with 49 cases deemed valid. Thirty-three children were removed from parents or guardians." …from the story below….. EVENT aims to raise awareness of child abuse and neglect Shreveport Times – Shreveport,LA,USA "Raising Hope," a free event recognizing April as Child Abuse Awareness and Prevention Month, will be … A balloon release will honor the victims of child abuse. … <http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050430/NE…> Kane: Just to spoil the punch line….she got off….JURY trial. The prosecutor, since no one else is being charged, believes she in fact abused the child… JURY Reaches Verdict In Child Abuse Case KTEN – Denison,TX,USA A former Texoma councilwoman fighting to stay out of prison and charged with abusing her child found out her fate today. KTEN’s … <http://www.kten.com/article.asp?id=7827> Kane: Yep one of those rare exceptional "severe" abuse cases. Thank goodness CPS didn’t learn of this sooner, then the couple wouldn’t have wound up in criminal court for criminal assualt. In fact, why bother with CPS at all. Have them just  take over all the existing community intervention programs for families, and this kind of thing probably wouldn’t happen, or so the experts here tell me.  0:-> This couple surely would have gone to a Well Child clinic and take some parenting classes…wouldn’t they? SEPARATE trials set in child abuse case Houston Chronicle – Houston,TX,USA BROWNSVILLE  - A couple accused of abusing and feeding rancid meat to a 6-month-old baby will have separate trials. Veronica Martinez, 19, and Brian Martin, 20, were arrested in July 2004 and accused of abusing Martinez’s baby, including breaking bones in the child’s arms and legs. <http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3160032> Kane: I would think bobber would be thrilled by this one, as it shows an unwillingness to make sentencing harsher. On the other hand he’ll be more likely to pitchabitch that there’s any sentence at all. COURT: Habitual Offender Act Doesn’t Cover Child Abuse NBC13.com – Birmingham,AL,USA … in a first-of-its-kind case, ruled Friday that Alabama’s habitual offender law can’t be used to lengthen the sentence of a person convicted of child abuse. … <http://www.nbc13.com/news/4432799/detail.html>

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Kane’s Komments, or We Don Need No Steekin’ CPS Kane: So, they are training young people to be alert to the signs of abuse. 0:-> And pointing out some very odd data…like 60% plus of juveniles that are encarcerated for murder killed the person that beat their mother. Hmmmm. MERCY students get facts on abuse Middletown Press – Middletown,CT,USA … 63 percent of those incarcerated for murder had killed the man … the topic because "I was interested in child abuse and have known people who were abused.". … <http://www.middletownpress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14430952&BRD=1645…> SC council to probe DSS’s case handling Charlotte Observer – Charlotte,NC,USA … do not know which parent killed the children … council to study the agency’s Child Protective Services … SC DSS workers underestimated risks to abused and neglected … <http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/11508597.htm>

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Kane’s Komments Kane: It seems I’m not the only one that thinks the number of child abuse cases is rising. STATE awards grants to 13 groups preventing child abuse Newsday – Long Island,NY,USA TRENTON, NJ — State Human Services Commission James M. Davy on Thursday awarded $619,508 in grants to 13 community groups working to prevent child abuse. … <http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj–dhsgrants0…> CHILD Abuse And Neglect — Looking Beyond The Obvious Boone Mountain Times – Boone,NC,USA Prevent Child Abuse North Carolina is the only statewide, nonprofit organization dedicated to the prevention of child abuse and neglect in all its forms. … <http://www.mountaintimes.com/mtweekly/2005/0428/abuseneglect.php3> Kane: This one lied like a trooper, but broke down suddenly. How many more have done this without breaking down and gotten away with the abuse, Doug? An estimate by those in LE and CPS would guess as high as 9 to 1, 90% never even reported. And we know, don’t we Doug, that abusers don’t usually confess? MAN tearfully admits child abuse, police say St. Petersburg Times – St. Petersburg,FL,USA … Brooks has been charged with three counts of aggravated child abuse and was being held in the county jail in lieu of $60,000 bail. … "     His daughter’s head injury, her broken leg – all accidents, he told police. Then his story took a turn. By JACOB H. FRIES Published April 28, 2005 LARGO – For an hour and a half Wednesday night, 25-year-old Lee Brooks sat in police headquarters and maintained his innocence. His children’s injuries were accidental, he told Largo police Detective David Green. On one occasion, his daughter slipped from his arms and he caught her by the head, Brooks said. On another, he fell down a flight of stairs, breaking the girl’s leg. None of it was intentional, he calmly told Green. Then Brooks broke down crying."  ….more at: <http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/28/Northpinellas/Man_tearfully_admits_…> Kane: Will this, as so many others that do not involve a family member, in the family home, not be counted as part of that 10% …. or since these children are not in the custody of the state, with it simply be referred to the police for criminal investigation? Where will this be counted, if at all? STUDENT Accused Of Child Sex Abuse The Ledger – Lakeland,FL,USA … of Children and Families notified Lakeland police about the incidents April 4 after a call reporting abuse was made to the Child Abuse Hotline, Gross said. … <http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050428/NEWS/504…>

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Kane’s Komments Kane: The incidences of child sexual abuse are not, as I’ve said in this ng for years, being reported at anything like the actual number of incidences, or even an accurate victim count. A more chilling fact is that much of it is perpetrated by other than parents and is NOT counted in CPS data for submission to federal central data bases. And, get this, federal law enforcement reporting agencies to NOT count anyone under 12 in their reports. And over a certain age either. In other words they are NOT counting sexual assaults. So where is the data? Yah got me. Scattered here and there with no central place to visit for the facts. Why is this happening? There are many reasons why, including age of the child, that it’s not reported. Here are a few for you to consider: http://www.detnews.com/2005/specialreport/0504/24/A01-159826.htm and: More often than not, a child’s abuse allegations lead to family turmoil – especially when the information slips out accidentally, said Dawn Long, executive director of the Barren River Area Child Advocacy Center. "Then you’ve got a kid who is very clearly a victim, but they refuse to talk because their family is going to shut down on them," she said. "I’m amazed that kids talk at all, really." …….more at: http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/stories/public/200504/25/4jjg_new… and; Posted on Mon, Apr. 25, 2005 ZIP code where you park at night. Do you currently have auto insurance?           Yes No Have you had a U.S driver’s license for more than 3 years?              Yes No Has any driver in your household had 2 or more accidents or moving violations in the last 3 years?                 Yes No Database can show some scary things about your neighborhood BY RALPH DE LA CRUZ South Florida Sun-Sentinel FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – (KRT) – "To Whomever Will Listen," the e-mail began. "My name is Jamie Perna. I am a 27-year-old stay-at-home mom of a wonderful 4-year-old son. I live in Davie, Florida. I am a survivor of sexual abuse." ….more at: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/living/11483269.htm and; Kane: Remember, cases such as these are NOT usually counted on the CPS data banks because such are straight criminal cases that CPS may have no contact with at all. Thursday, April 28, 2005 Hermosa Beach man held on 11 child molestation counts Police say suspect had been abusing boys for more than 20 years. He also is accused of providing them with marijuana. By Larry Altman Daily Breeze A 58-year-old Hermosa Beach man beloved by his neighbors was charged Tuesday with molesting neglected adolescent boys in his apartment since the early 1980s. Charles P. Weinberg allegedly befriended the boys, invited them into his one-bedroom home and smoked marijuana with them before engaging in sexual acts, Hermosa Beach police Sgt. Paul Wolcott said. Weinberg was arrested early Friday when he emerged from his apartment with two young boys unrelated to him, police said. Neighbors said Weinberg told them the teenage boys who came and went from his Manhattan Avenue apartment were his nephews and their friends, but authorities said that does not appear to be the case… ……more at: http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/articles/1516212.html and; Wednesday, April 27, 2005 – 9:44:37 AM Texoma Man Charged with Sex Abuse for 2nd Time A man could face life in prison after being charged with child sexual abuse for the second time. Bryan County prosecutors have filed charges against David Ray Evans for the abuse of two boys. Evans was charged with lewd molestation in 1999 but the charge was dropped after he was deemed incompetent to stand trial. He was then placed in an adult-care home in Howe, Texas. Officials say he was discharged and place in the custody of his family last year. He is currently in the Bryan County jail. …story at: http://www.kten.com/article.asp?id=7773

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Kane’s Komments Kane: Tell me again about the incidence of child sexual abuse being only 10% of the child abuse reported cases, and convince me that a great many more cases are going unreported: Report: 10,667 Children Reported Priest Abuse Fri Feb 27, 2004 06:02 AM ET NEW YORK (Reuters) – More than 10,600 children have reported being molested by priests since 1950, according to two studies that found the U.S. Roman Catholic Church suffered an epidemic of child sexual abuse involving at least 4 percent of priests, The New York Times reported on Friday. The newspaper, citing studies commissioned by U.S. Catholic bishops in 2002, said the abuse peaked with the ordination class of 1970, from which one in 10 priests was eventually accused of abuse. The report revealed that 10,667 children were allegedly victimized by 4,392 priests from 1950 to 2002, but said the figures depend on self-reporting by American bishops and were probably an undercount. ………story at: http://www.4law.co.il/comer27204.htm

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Kane’s Komments on Child Protection and News Kane: Well, the rebuttal to bobber was never responded to by him. His claim was that if the victim doesn’t know it’s sexual abuse then it isn’t. bobber, you correct me if I’m wrong here. And I’ll go to the archives to see exactly what you did say. It seems that this women did not know when she was a little girl that what was being done to her constituted sexual molestation, rape in fact. Forced touching by gangs of boys even to the point of biting her. And once AGAIN in rebuttal to all those that continually claim that because sexual abuse report RATES are stable over the years, that the numbers aren’t going UP, and that sexual abuse of children is being reported at anything like the real rate of incidences….most of which are never reported. Yet another community were the truth comes out… ………….. Stemming abuse Outreach, education program may help middle schoolers cope with feelings By Jojo Santo Tomas Pacific Sunday News santoto…@guampdn.com (Editor’s note: The following story contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse. Reader discretion is advised. The victim’s name in this story was changed to protect her privacy.) Fifteen years ago doesn’t seem that long ago to Maria. She still recalls with stark clarity her tumultuous days as a seventh- and eighth-grader at Untalan Middle School. Those were the days, she says, when it seemed she was sexually assaulted every afternoon. It happened on the bus ride home, she says. As many as eight bullies — all stronger boys — would get off at the same bus stop, choose a girl and hold her down. No one ever helped, she says, because they either didn’t care or were worried about themselves. So when she was caught, she had no choice but to take it, she says. "The ‘in’ thing with the guys in the village was biting. Doesn’t matter who they bit or where they bite you," says Maria, now 28. "If I was wearing a skirt, they would stick their hands up my legs and get into my panties. They would bite me all over. ………complete story at the link below…………… http://www.guampdn.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050424/LIFESTYLE/… http://tinyurl.com/exgzw

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Kane’s Komments on Child Protection News Kane: I wonder what is happening in PA that gives it this "honor?" PA. child abuse rates stable over past five years Pittsburgh Post Gazette – Pittsburgh,PA,USA The rate of child abuse in Pennsylvania has remained fairly stable over the past five years, with the number of cases last year only slightly higher than the … <http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05118/495580.stm> APRIL: Prevent Child Abuse Month The Free Lance-Star – Fredericksburg,VA,USA APRIL is National Child Abuse Prevention Month, and although the month is nearly over, the subject is never out of date. Every 76 … <http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2005/042005/04282005/1747878> ‘HELP Clean Up Child Abuse’ this month Searcy Daily Citizen – Searcy,AR,USA April is Child Abuse Prevention Month. In recognition of Child Abuse Prevention Month, CASA of White County presents, "Help Clean Up Child Abuse" April 1-30. … <http://www.thedailycitizen.com/articles/2005/04/28/news/features/feat…> SERIES on Child Abuse Part II of II: Child abuse prevention starts … Woodlands Villager – Woodlands,TX,USA Series I of the Child Abuse Prevention article in the April 21 edition of The Villager specifically pointed out Signs and Symptoms of child abuse. … <http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14430015&BRD=1574&PAG=461&d…> WOMAN’S hobby flowers into campaign to prevent child abuse Asheville Citizen-Times – Asheville,NC,USA First in a 10-part series about people in our community who work to end child abuse in the region. ASHEVILLE — Right near the … <http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050428/NEWS…>

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PROFILES highlight community’s advocates for child abuse … Asheville Citizen-Times – Asheville,NC,USA ASHEVILLE — April is Child Abuse Prevention Month, and advocates for children have tied nearly 1,000 blue ribbons to trees around City-County Plaza to raise … <http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050427/NEWS…> THE impact of child sexual abuse Marshalltown Times Republican – Marshalltown,IA,USA … It may be stuffing envelopes at or contributing to the operation of Child Abuse Prevention Services, becoming a Big Brother/Big Sister, becoming a Blue Star … <http://www.timesrepublican.com/edit/story/0426202005_edtedit.asp> MAN Arrested When Child Abuse Photos Were Found on His Cell Phone KSL-TV – Salt Lake City,UT,USA When available, the raw script from this video story is presented below. Please note that these scripts come directly from our TV … <http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=39&sid=200817> MOTHER jailed on suspicion of child abuse Arizona Republic – Phoenix,AZ,USA SOUTH PHOENIX – Authorities early Monday jailed a Phoenix mother on suspicion of child abuse after the woman admitted locking her 7-year-old daughter in a room … <http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0426phx-child…>

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Question:

Don’t ever say you are sorry to this creep, we are here for you. Most of us have been in your shoes. I wish you healing and fond memories, and a big (((hugs from))) Sue and Janie (golden retriever), Ginger (Australian shepherd), Toy Boy (toy poodle) and Buddy (Australian Shepherd)

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Re: Not a good day for me.   Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Apr 3, 2005, 8:43am (CDT-2) From: mlare…@NODAMNSPAMearthlink.net (Michael

Question:

I was of course referring to the growth of Protestantism in refernce to the Borgias.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe Islam views earthly unity as secondary to that of the spiritual realm. On the surface there may indeed seem to be many sects.  But American current policy, just like that of the Papacy under the Borgias, is having a unifying effect upon the world of Islam. Why are Muslims Divided into Sects? managed to get two posts onto soc.religion.islam before getting cut off for some reason Don’t give up on SRI. They have some very touchy rules that you somehow violated. Touchy – but not unreasonable. Try again – and follow the guide lines carefully. I’d be interested in the thoughts of any Muslims on this. I’m not a Muslim, sorry. But I doubt if you will get a satisfactory answer. Here is my take on the situation: Potentially there could be as many sects as there are Muslims. In Islam one’s alligence is to Allah rather than to The Church. In practice the situation is closer to one sect per mosque. By and large every Mosque belongs to the sect of its leader (usually, but not always, the imam). Most of the imams have strong enough personality traits (if the mosque is going to survive) to constitute a separate sect. But all theses little sects are constantly forming and reforming joint projects. I don’t think anybody is keeping track in the UK or US, much world-wide. Good Luck on your search for knowledge.

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Was Mo bisectual?

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Maybe Islam views earthly unity as secondary to that of the spiritual realm. On the surface there may indeed seem to be many sects.  But American current policy, just like that of the Papacy under the Borgias, is having a unifying effect upon the world of Islam.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are Muslims Divided into Sects? managed to get two posts onto soc.religion.islam before getting cut off for some reason Don’t give up on SRI. They have some very touchy rules that you somehow violated. Touchy – but not unreasonable. Try again – and follow the guide lines carefully. I’d be interested in the thoughts of any Muslims on this. I’m not a Muslim, sorry. But I doubt if you will get a satisfactory answer. Here is my take on the situation: Potentially there could be as many sects as there are Muslims. In Islam one’s alligence is to Allah rather than to The Church. In practice the situation is closer to one sect per mosque. By and large every Mosque belongs to the sect of its leader (usually, but not always, the imam). Most of the imams have strong enough personality traits (if the mosque is going to survive) to constitute a separate sect. But all theses little sects are constantly forming and reforming joint projects. I don’t think anybody is keeping track in the UK or US, much world-wide. Good Luck on your search for knowledge.

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Some of them believe that muhammed was a paedophile, while others believe that he was a camel fucker.

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 He was multi talented and practiced both perversities..

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There are many sects due to individual natures of people. One way is not for everyone. shak el http://www.lulu.com/content/114194

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Why are Muslims Divided into Sects? managed to get two posts onto soc.religion.islam before getting cut off for some reason

Don’t give up on SRI. They have some very touchy rules that you somehow violated. Touchy – but not unreasonable. Try again – and follow the guide lines carefully. I’d be interested in the thoughts of any Muslims on this.

I’m not a Muslim, sorry. But I doubt if you will get a satisfactory answer. Here is my take on the situation: Potentially there could be as many sects as there are Muslims. In Islam one’s alligence is to Allah rather than to The Church. In practice the situation is closer to one sect per mosque. By and large every Mosque belongs to the sect of its leader (usually, but not always, the imam). Most of the imams have strong enough personality traits (if the mosque is going to survive) to constitute a separate sect. But all theses little sects are constantly forming and reforming joint projects. I don’t think anybody is keeping track in the UK or US, much world-wide. Good Luck on your search for knowledge.

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Why are Muslims Divided into Sects? It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (Pbuh) was a Muslim.

Muslims should get their information about other religions from scholars of those religions,  just as they want non-Muslims to get their Islamic facts from Muslims. Read the Holy Bible. Jesus was a Jew. The above chapter, verse, and preposterous allegation only prove the complete and utter illegitimacy of the Quran and Islam. So many lies, so few pages. If only all Muslims read the Qur’an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith, Inshallah most of these differences would be solved and we could be one united Muslim Ummah.

There are many sects in Christianity and Judaism, but you don’t hear them complaining. They are fine, free, and prosperous just like that. Islam shows it’s backwardness yet again. Diversity is a good thing. Unless you are a Sunni or Wahabbi (Fascist) Muslim.

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  They find that having good sects can be elusive.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are Muslims Divided into Sects? Dr. Zakir Naik There are many non-Muslims who have studied Islam. Most of them have only read books on Islam written by biased critics of Islam. These non-Muslims have a different set of twenty common misconceptions about Islam. For instance, they claim to have found contradictions in the Qur’an, they contend that the Qur’an is unscientific etc. In this issue I shall deal with why are Muslims Divided into Sects? Question: When all the Muslims follow one and the same Qur’an then why are there so many sects among Muslims? Answer: It is a fact that Muslims today are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers.

<big snip Hi, Your post made me think. Like many other people (probably) I first got interested in Islam following the events of 9/11, the invasion of Iraq and the problems in Israel/Palestine. I am a Christian and live in an area of the UK where there are few Muslims, so I knew next to nothing about Islam. The first book I read was the Complete Idiot’s Guide to the Koran, which, as far as I can tell, teaches authentic Islam despite being from a rather unusual stable. I’ve also had some offline discussions with Salahuddin, read most of the posts on uk.religion.islam (including ones that also made it to other newsgroups, but not these days the ones where certain individuals dump a dozen newspaper articles at a time), managed to get two posts onto soc.religion.islam before getting cut off for some reason and have posted a few myself to uk.religion.islam. My initial impession was of Islam being a well organised, easy-to-understand religion. The Qu’ran was claimed to have been delivered to one man with no arguments about what made up the text and this was the supreme authority by which Allah showed people how to live and how to worship him. Compared to the Christian faith, it seemed so simple, which is a claim made in one or two of the testimonies of converts to Islam that have been posted here. I knew of there being Sunnis and Shi’ites, but the one split seemed pretty good going compared to what there is in Christianity. My reading of the Qu’ran so far is that there is some good stuff in there, e.g. God existing, God being holy, our responsibilities to him and to others, its requirement for Muslims to believe the Jewish/Christian scriptures etc., mixed in with some duff stuff, e.g. misinterpreting what the Gospels say. I’ve come to realise that things are a lot more complicated in Islam than it first appeared. In your post, you mentioned the various groups that exist with the Muslim community and there have been posts about the claims for variations in the text of the Qu’ran. My question today is how on earth do you know which hadiths are authentic and which are not? If I’ve understood correctly, all authentic Muslim groups believe that people need to follow the authentic hadiths as well as the Qu’ran as the Qu’ran does not cover everything. In that sense, it now appears in my mind that the nearest equivalent to mainstream Islam in the Christian faith, in terms of where teaching comes from, is the Roman Catholic church rather than historic Protestantism since the RC church holds that the church can add teachings over and above those which are explicitly stated in the bible. Historic Protestantism (Evangelicalism) teaches that everything that is necessary for salvation is to be found in the bible (e.g. see 2 Timothy 3.16) and if something isn’t clearly taught in the bible, we should not require people to believe it. The point of my long ramble is that working out which hadiths are authentic and applying them seems really complicated and perhaps beyond the reach of most people. What comes across intially as a simple-to-understand religion is actually more complicated than Christianity – even with the Trinity included! I’d be interested in the thoughts of any Muslims on this. Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 1.7). Alan Cossey

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Why are Muslims Divided into Sects?  Dr. Zakir Naik There are many non-Muslims who have studied Islam. Most of them have only read books on Islam written by biased critics of Islam. These non-Muslims have a different set of twenty common misconceptions about Islam. For instance, they claim to have found contradictions in the Qur’an, they contend that the Qur’an is unscientific etc. In this issue I shall deal with why are Muslims Divided into Sects? Question: When all the Muslims follow one and the same Qur’an then why are there so many sects among Muslims? Answer: It is a fact that Muslims today are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers. 1. The Glorious Qur’an says: And hold fast, All together, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; [Al-Qur'an 3:103] Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah to which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Besides saying Hold fast all together, it also says, Be not divided. 2. The Glorious Qur’an says: As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, thou hast No part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end Tell them the truth Of all that they did. [Al-Qur'an 6:159] In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide the religion and break it up into sects. But when one asks a Muslim, who are you, the common answer is either I am a Sunni, or I am Shia. Some mention subjects and call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki. Some say I am a Deobandi, while some others say I am a Barelvi. Some say I am a Bohra and some others call themselves Aga Khani or Ismaili. One may ask such Muslims, Who was our beloved prophet (Pbuh)? Was he a Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Hambali or a Maliki? No! He was a Muslim, like all the other prophets and messengers of Allah before him. It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (Pbuh) was a Muslim. Further, in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (Pbuh) was not a Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim. 3. If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say I am a MUSLIM, not a Hanafi or a Shafi. No verse of the Qur’an encourages a Muslim to call himself a Hanafi or a Shafi. In Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33: Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) To Allah, works righteousness, And says, I am of those Who bow in Islam (Muslim)? [Al-Qur'an 41:33] The Qur’an says: "Say I am of those who bow in Islam. In other words, say, I am a Muslim." 4. The Prophet (Pbuh) dictated a letter, to be sent to the Emperor of Persia, inviting him to accept Islam. In this letter he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an from Surah Al- Imran chapter 3 verse 64: Say ye: Bear witness That we (at least) Are Muslims (bowing To Allah’s Will). [Al-Qur'an 3:64] 5. We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbal and Imam Malik. They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hardwork. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the views and research of Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi, etc. But when posed a question, who are you, the reply should only be I am a Muslim. 6. Some may argue by quoting the Hadith of our beloved Prophet from Abu Dawood Hadith no 4579. In this Hadith the prophet (Pbuh) is reported to have said, My community will be split up into seventy-three sects. This Hadith reports that the prophet predicted the emergence of seventy-three sects. He did not say Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. The Glorious Qur’an commands us not to create sects. Those who follow the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith, and do not create sects are the people who are on the true path. According to Tirmidhi Hadith no 171, the Prophet (Pbuh) is reported to have said, My Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in hell fire except one sect. The companions, asked Allah’s messenger which group that would be. Whereupon he replied, It is the one to which I and my companions belong. The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, Obey Allah and obey His Messenger. A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be. If only all Muslims read the Qur’an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith, Inshallah most of these differences would be solved and we could be one united Muslim Ummah.

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" As Muslims, We have an obligation to invite people to  our Islamic values, morals, and commitment to worship  of Allah." Yeah, sure. And when you cannot get the ‘invited’ people to see it your way, you kill them. Islam is a religion of violence. It is a religion of slave-making. Islam is a false religion. — ‘All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.’

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Alan, "Adhabuhu" has been using the alias "Romero" for months now. He will not even read your posts, unless you include the line "I have converted to Islam".

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I strongly believe that true Muslims are the best people on earth.

Even apes are better than muslims. Logos Remove A B C

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I strongly believe that true Muslims are the best people on earth. Even apes are better than muslims.

That’s because Apes are a higher life form than muslims. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Logos Remove A B C

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. There is a God out there and we must believe that He is on the side of people who are on Huq (truth). My intention is to educate mis-led & mis-inform readers online about Islam, and prove to the readers that Islam is indeed a religion of peace and that Muslims can live side by side with other faiths. We have as Muslims massive responsibility as individuals and as groups to expose the lies and educate the readers who we really are or more importantly what Islam stands for. I strongly believe that true Muslims are the best people on earth. I also believe that we can win the hearts of masses despite the efforts by Anti-Muslims tactics such as Identity theft, forgeries, deception etc… However those dirty tricks used by anti-Muslims failed to scared the people who wish to a convert and accepted Islam as hisher faith. It’s only exposed the prejudice, bigotry, and racism adapted by the enemies of Islam. As Muslims, We have an obligation to invite people to our Islamic values, morals, and commitment to worship of Allah.

Yeah wonderful murderers. I worship the ground they got coming to them. <signed A second-class "dimmi"

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In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Islam is indeed a religion of peace and that Muslims can live side by side with other faiths. I strongly believe that true Muslims are the best people on earth.

**  Muslim fundamentalists are undoubtedly the best people on earth for doing something about the overpopulation problem on this planet. —

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How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? Charismatics: Only one. Hands are already in the air. Pentecostals:  Ten.  One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against  the spirit of darkness. Presbyterians:  None.  Lights will go on and off at predestined times. Roman Catholic and Orthodox:  None.  Candles only. Baptists:  At least 15.  One to change the light bulb, and three committees to approve the change and decide who brings the potato salad. Episcopalians:  Eight. One to call the electrician, and seven to say how much they liked the old one better. Mormons:  Five.  One man to change the bulb, and four wives to tell him how to do it. Unitarians:  We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against the need for a light bulb.  However, if in your own journey you have found light bulbs work for you, that is fine.  You are invited to write a  poem or compose a modern dance about your personal relationship with your light bulb, and present it next month at our annual light bulb Sunday service, in which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent, fluorescent, three-way, long-life and tinted, all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence. Methodist:  Undetermined.  Whether your light is bright, dull, or completely out, you are loved.  Churchwide lighting service is planned for Sunday. Bring bulb of your choice and a covered dish. Lutheran:  None.  Lutherans don’t believe in change. Amish:  What’s a light bulb?

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Hi Alias, Very interesting  but your posting is not for this NG, so was mine about the piles a month ago. CB "Alias" <a.k…@masked-and-anonymous.com.edu.org.biz.tv> wrote in message

news:l9_Qd.19453$US.12838@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? > Charismatics: Only one. Hands are already in the air. > Pentecostals:  Ten.  One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against  the > spirit of darkness. > Presbyterians:  None.  Lights will go on and off at predestined times. > Roman Catholic and Orthodox:  None.  Candles only. > Baptists:  At least 15.  One to change the light bulb, and three committees > to approve the change and decide who brings the potato salad. > Episcopalians:  Eight. One to call the electrician, and seven to say how > much they liked the old one better. > Mormons:  Five.  One man to change the bulb, and four wives to tell him how > to do it. > Unitarians:  We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against > the need for a light bulb.  However, if in your own journey you have found > light bulbs work for you, that is fine.  You are invited to write a  poem or > compose a modern dance about your personal relationship with your light > bulb, and present it next month at our annual light bulb Sunday service, in > which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including > incandescent, fluorescent, three-way, long-life and tinted, all of which are > equally valid paths to luminescence. > Methodist:  Undetermined.  Whether your light is bright, dull, or completely > out, you are loved.  Churchwide lighting service is planned for Sunday. > Bring bulb of your choice and a covered dish. > Lutheran:  None.  Lutherans don’t believe in change. > Amish:  What’s a light bulb?

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hehe http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

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which would be anything big enough to reduce the farts escaping, I think. No reflection on the joke.  I thought it was OK, but I’m pretty patient with people trying to break the ice the only way they know how, through constant irritation and insiuation to keep the spotlight.  I always bin a big spotlight grabber but I never knew what to do once it actually shone on me. I have a notorious reputation for distracting serious people. fuk em. =&-) Cactus Jammies <elmoemer…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6596-4215FE8A-978@storefull-3251.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hehe > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile > http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

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That is way too funny !! I’m printing it off and take it to church tomorrow. Thanks! hc "Alias" <a.k…@masked-and-anonymous.com.edu.org.biz.tv> wrote in message

news:l9_Qd.19453$US.12838@news.ono.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? > Charismatics: Only one. Hands are already in the air. > Pentecostals:  Ten.  One to change the bulb, and nine to pray against  the > spirit of darkness. > Presbyterians:  None.  Lights will go on and off at predestined times. > Roman Catholic and Orthodox:  None.  Candles only. > Baptists:  At least 15.  One to change the light bulb, and three committees > to approve the change and decide who brings the potato salad. > Episcopalians:  Eight. One to call the electrician, and seven to say how > much they liked the old one better. > Mormons:  Five.  One man to change the bulb, and four wives to tell him how > to do it. > Unitarians:  We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against > the need for a light bulb.  However, if in your own journey you have found > light bulbs work for you, that is fine.  You are invited to write a  poem or > compose a modern dance about your personal relationship with your light > bulb, and present it next month at our annual light bulb Sunday service, in > which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including > incandescent, fluorescent, three-way, long-life and tinted, all of which are > equally valid paths to luminescence. > Methodist:  Undetermined.  Whether your light is bright, dull, or completely > out, you are loved.  Churchwide lighting service is planned for Sunday. > Bring bulb of your choice and a covered dish. > Lutheran:  None.  Lutherans don’t believe in change. > Amish:  What’s a light bulb?

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Lol! I especially liked the Mormon one… WS

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One. Aliass . You fuckin moron. You are as faithful as Bill Clinton is to Hillary. You are the kind of one world, United Nations asshole most Americans despise. And fuck your "FAT MAN". (budda) Randy

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Forget to take your meds? — Alias Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me. Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail. <tobees…@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:9920-4217FF4F-76@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One. Aliass . You fuckin moron. You are as faithful as Bill Clinton is > to Hillary. You are the kind of one world, United Nations asshole most > Americans despise. And fuck your "FAT MAN". (budda) Randy

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finally someone lightens things up a little. Then the fighting starts again.  Does anyone know a NG that is a little less pissy?

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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:49:06 -0500, "burningdaylight" <burningdayli…@private.com> wrote: >finally someone lightens things up a little. Then the fighting starts >again.  Does anyone know a NG that is a little less pissy?

Not as far as Hepatitis C support goes.  Maybe some moderated web site support groups.  But it is not so bad.  Sometimes it is kind of funny.

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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:49:06 -0500, "burningdaylight" <burningdayli…@private.com>, in message ID <057861f9ac9dc4a2ebc9f707848d8…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com>, in the newsgroup alt.support.hepatitis-c wrote: >finally someone lightens things up a little. Then the fighting starts >again.  Does anyone know a NG that is a little less pissy?

Not an NG but there are moderated hep c forums at www.delphiforums.com — Paul Use the reply by email facility in your newsreader to send email

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dont do the meds, Aliasss

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