Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

 Hello Alice, Yes Malachi does a great job! You can’t even mention his name at ewtn Anyway dear girl I will answer more tomorrow – my sister and kids just got home!

Yes, he does that but I never could discern his agenda.  One might have thought he would have left the church altogether with what he must have known. . . I never did manage to figure out where he was coming from but I fear much (not necessarily all) he wrote was essentially true. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Peace, Dawn " I often wonder if religion is the enemy of God. It’s almost like religion is what happens when the spirit has left the building " – Bono of U2

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 Wow,  if God works through harlots maybe I did see him on 42nd and broadway last year                    Peace, Dawn

Mary Magdelen comes to mind, as well as the woman, caught in the act of adultery, who was brought before Jesus in order to entrap Him into a judgement of her…the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" was a powerful lesson, that was the result of an adulteress…. God seems to be able to work through whomever He wishes… — Buny http://members.delphi.com/sumbuny/index.html

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 Wow,  if God works through harlots maybe I did see him on 42nd and broadway last year                    Peace, Dawn Mary Magdelen comes to mind, as well as the woman, caught in the act of adultery, who was brought before Jesus in order to entrap Him into a judgement of her…the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" was a powerful lesson, that was the result of an adulteress….

Hey, no fair!  Nowhere is Mary Magdalen identified as being a sexual sinner.  She had seven demons cast out of her, which implies a healing.  The Gerasene Demoniac isn’t automatically assumed to have been a sexual sinner.  Why is poor Mary M?

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           The darkest period of the Papacy: Eh! Over twenty centuries, you’re bound to end up with a few bad apples <g Perhaps God works through them, too, just like he did through all those

badkings and harlots of the Old Testament.  Wow,  if God works through harlots maybe I did see him on 42nd and broadway last year                    Peace, Dawn " I often wonder if religion is the enemy of God. It’s almost like religion is what happens when the spirit has left the building " – Bono of U2

Response:

This is all very interesting and comes as no surprise to me because I’ve learned much of this before.  In fact, Father Malachi Martin writes of much of it in his "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church", 1981.  I learned a lot of this in my Western Civ class at a secular university. Now what about those of us who still believe in the basics concerning the eucharist?  To whom shall we go?  Where are the keys then, if not still held by the Roman Catholic Church? If one isn’t careful, one could come to the conclusion that the true church and keys were hijacked somewhere along the way and what we have now is built on fraud and outright deception. How can we know that during those turbulent years, the orders for priests remained inviolate and were administered correctly by the laying on of hands?  That is where true succession is with me, in priestly orders through the laying on of hands, and not in papal succession.  Even popes would have to be validly consecrated priests to be valid popes. As of now, it seems that we have to have almost the same faith that orders have been done correctly down through time, in spite of the violence and depravities, that we have in Christ himself.  IOW we are trusting men in the church to tell us to trust them and their orders are valid. What is amazing is that the basic moral teachings of the church are on target and the church is once again in an ascendancy and exerts enormous power over catholics and noncatholics alike in world affairs.

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Wow,  if God works through harlots maybe I did see him on 42nd and broadway last year

Actually I’m sure you did.  However, it it’s likely you just didn’t recognize him/her in that form. I’m sorry, I just couldn’t resist. Dan

Response:

Wow,  if God works through harlots maybe I did see him on 42nd and broadway last year Actually I’m sure you did.  However, it it’s likely you just didn’t recognize him/her in that form. I’m sorry, I just couldn’t resist. Dan

 LOL I loved it Dan – please keep it up – we need a sense of humor here don’t you agree? Peace, Dawn " I often wonder if religion is the enemy of God. It’s almost like religion is what happens when the spirit has left the building " – Bono of U2

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is all very interesting and comes as no surprise to me because I’ve learned much of this before.  In fact, Father Malachi Martin writes of much of it in his "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church", 1981.  I learned a lot of this in my Western Civ class at a secular university. Now what about those of us who still believe in the basics concerning the eucharist?  To whom shall we go?  Where are the keys then, if not still held by the Roman Catholic Church? If one isn’t careful, one could come to the conclusion that the true church and keys were hijacked somewhere along the way and what we have now is built on fraud and outright deception. How can we know that during those turbulent years, the orders for priests remained inviolate and were administered correctly by the laying on of hands?  That is where true succession is with me, in priestly orders through the laying on of hands, and not in papal succession.  Even popes would have to be validly consecrated priests to be valid popes. As of now, it seems that we have to have almost the same faith that orders have been done correctly down through time, in spite of the violence and depravities, that we have in Christ himself.  IOW we are trusting men in the church to tell us to trust them and their orders are valid. What is amazing is that the basic moral teachings of the church are on

targetandthe church is once again in an ascendancy and exerts enormous power over catholicsand noncatholics alike in world affairs.

 Hello Alice, Yes Malachi does a great job! You can’t even mention his name at ewtn Anyway dear girl I will answer more tomorrow – my sister and kids just got home!   Peace, Dawn " I often wonder if religion is the enemy of God. It’s almost like religion is what happens when the spirit has left the building " – Bono of U2

Response:

           The darkest period of the Papacy:

Eh! Over twenty centuries, you’re bound to end up with a few bad apples <g Perhaps God works through them, too, just like he did through all those bad kings and harlots of the Old Testament.

Response:

           The darkest period of the Papacy: Adrian 11(867-872). John VIII (872-882). Marinus (882-884). With these Popes began the Darkest Period of the Papacy(870-1050). The 200 years between Nicolas I and Gregory VII is called by historians the MIDNIGHT OF THE DARK AGES. Bribery, Corruption, Immorality and Bloodshed, make it just about the Blackest Chapter in the Whole History of the Church. Adrian III (884-885). Stephen V (885-891). Formosus (891-896). Boniface VI (896). Stephen VI (896-897). Romanus (897). Theodore II (898). John IX (898-900). Benedict IV (900-903). Leo V (903). Christopher (903-904).                                     "Rule of the Harlots": Sergius III (A.D. 904-911). Said to have had a mistress, Marozia. She, her mother Theodora, and her sister, "filled the Papal chair with their paramours and bastard sons, and turned the Papal Palace into a den of robbers." Called in history The Rule of the Harlots (904-963). Anastasius III (911-913). Lando (913-914). John X (914-928), "was brought from Ravenna to Rome and made Pope by Theodora for the more convenient gratification of her passion." He was smothered to death by Marozia, who, then, in succession, raised to the Papacy Leo VI (928-929), and Stephen VII (929-931), and John XI (931-936), her own illegitimate son. Another of her sons appointed the four following Popes, Leo VII (936-939), Stephen VIII (939-942), Martin III (942-946), and Agapetus II (946-955). John XII (955-963), a grandson of Marozia, was "guilty of almost every crime; violated virgins and widows, high and low; lived with his fathers mistress; made the Papal Palace a brothel; was killed while in the act of adultery by the woman’s enraged husband."                 Depths of Papal Degradation: Leo VIII (963-965). John XIII (965-972). Benedict VI (972-974). Donus II (974). Benedict VII (975-983). John XIV (983-984). Boniface VII (984-985), murdered Pope John XIV, and "maintained himself on the blood-stained Papal Throne by a lavish distribution of stolen money." The Bishop of Orleans, referring to John XII, Leo VIII and Boniface VII, called them: "monsters of guilt, reeking in blood and filth; Antichrist sitting in the Temple of God". John XV (985-996). Gregory V (996-999). Sylvester II (999-1003). John XVII (1003). John XVIII (1003-1008). Sergius IV (1009-1012). Benedict VIII (1012-1024), bought the Office of Pope with open bribery. This was called SIMONY, that is, the purchase or sale of Church Office with money. John XIX (1024-1033), Bought the Papacy. He passed through all the necessary clerical degrees in one day. Benedict IX (1033-1045), was made Pope as a boy 12 years old, through a money bargain with the powerful families that ruled Rome. "Surpassed John XII in wickedness; committed murders and adulteries in broad daylight; robbed pilgrims on the graves of martyrs a hideous criminal, the people drove him out of Rome." Some call him the Worst of all the Popes. Gregory VI (1045-1046), Bought the Papacy. Three rival Popes: Benedict IX, Gregory VI, Sylvester III. "Rome swarmed with hired assassins; virtue of pilgrims was violated." Clement II (1046-1047), was appointed Pope by Emperor Henry III of Germany "because no Roman clergyman could be found who was free of the pollution of Simony and Fornication." Damascus II (1048). Loud protests against Papal Infamy, and a Cry for Reform found answer in Hildebrand.                           Golden Age of Papal Power: Hildebrand, small of stature, ungainly in appearance, feeble in voice, yet great in intellect, fiery in spirit, determined, and a zealous advocate of Papal Absolutism, associated himself with the Reform Party, and led the Papacy into its Golden Age (1049-1294). He controlled the five successive Papal administrations immediately preceding his own: Leo IX (1049-1054); Victor II (1055-1057); Stephen IX (1057- 1058); Nicolas II (1059-1061); Alexander II (1061-1073). Hildebrand, Pope Gregory VII (1073-1085). His great object was to Reform the Clergy. The two prevailing Sins of the Clergy were Immorality and Simony. Simony was the Purchase of Church Office with Money. The Church owned a large share of all property, and had rich incomes. Practically all Bishops and Priests had paid for their office, for it gave them a chance to live in luxury. Kings habitually sold Church Offices to the highest bidder, regardless of fitness or character. This brought Pope Gregory VII into bitter contest with Henry IV, Emperor of Germany. He deposed Gregory. Gregory, in turn, excommunicated and deposed Henry. War followed. For years Italy was devastated by the opposing armies. Gregory, in the end, was driven from Rome, and died in exile. But he had, in great measure, made the Papacy independent of Imperial Power. Repeatedly Gregory had called himself "Overlord of Kings and Princes," and made good his claim. Victor III (1086-1087). Urban II (1088-1099), continued war with the German Emperor. Became leader in the Crusade Movement, which added to Papacys Leadership. Pascal II (1099-1118), continued War with German Emperor. Gelasius II (1118-1119). Calixtus II, (1119-1124). Honrius II (1124-1130). Innocent II (1130-1143), maintained his office by armed force against Anti-Pope Anacletus II, who had been chosen by certain powerful families in Rome. Celestin II (1143-1144). Lucius II (1144-1145). Eugene III (1145-1153). Anastasius IV (1153-1154). Adrian IV (1154-1159). Only English Pope. Gave Ireland to the King of England, and authorized him to take possession. This authorization was renewed by the next Pope, Alexander III, and carried out in 1171. Alexander III (1159-1181). In conflict with four Anti-Popes. Renewed war with the German Emperor for supremacy. Many campaigns and pitched battles between the Papal Armies and German Armies, with terrible slaughter. Alexander was finally driven from Rome by the people, and died in exile. Lucius III (1181–1185). Urban III (1185-1187). Gregory VIII (1187). Clement III (1187-1191). Celestine II (1191-1198). Summit of Papal Power: Innocent III (1198-1216). Most Powerful of all the Popes. Claimed to be "Vicar of Christ," "Vicar of God," "Supreme Sovereign over the Church and the World." Claimed the right to Depose Kings and Princes, and that "All things on earth and in heaven and in hell are subject to the Vicar of Christ." He brought the Church into Supreme Control of the State. The Kings of Germany, France, England, and practically all the Monarchs of Europe obeyed his will. He even brought the Byzantine Empire under his control. Never in history has any one man exerted more power. He ordered Two Crusades. Decreed Transubstantiation. Confirmed Auricular Confession. Declared that Peters successor "can never in any way depart from the Catholic faith," Papal Infallibility. Condemned the Magna Charta. Forbade the Reading of the Bible in vernacular (common language). Ordered the Extermination of Heretics. Instituted the Inquisition. Ordered the Massacre of the Albigenses. More Blood was Shed under his direction, and that of his immediate successors, than in any other period of Church History, except in the Papacy’s effort to Crush the Reformation in the 16th and 17th centuries. One would think Nero, the Beast, had come to life in Name of the Lamb. Papal Power Maintained by the Inquisition: The Inquisition, called the "Holy Office," was instituted by Pope Innocent III, and perfected under the second following Pope, Gregory IX. It was the Church Court for Detection and Punishment of Heretics. Under it everyone was required to inform against Heretics. Anyone suspected was liable to Torture, without knowing the name of his accuser. The proceedings were secret. The Inquisitor pronounced sentence, and the victim was turned over to Civil Authorities to be Imprisoned for Life, or to be Burned. The victims property was confiscated, and divided between the Church and the State. In the period immediately following Pope Innocent III the Inquisition did its most deadly work against the Albigenses, but also claimed vast multitudes of victims in Spain, Italy, Germany and the Netherlands. Later on the Inquisition was the main agency in the Papacy’s effort to Crush the Reformation. It is stated that in the 30 years between 1540 and 1570 no fewer than 900,000 Protestants were put to death in the Popes war for the extermination of the Waldenses. Think of Monks and Priests, in holy garments, directing, with Heartless Cruelty and Inhuman Brutality, the work of Torturing and Burning alive Innocent Men and Women, and doing it in the Name of Christ, by the direct order of the "Vicar of Christ." The Inquisition was the Most Infamous and Devilish Thing in Human History. It was devised by Popes, and used by them for 500 years, to Maintain their Power. For its record none of the subsequent line of "Holy" and "Infallible" Popes have ever apologized [ as of 1962]. WBSG Note: In March of the year 2000, in a special ceremony at the Vatican, John Paul II asked for forgiveness for the failings of ‘his’ church over the centuries, including its mistreatment of Jews and its violation of the rights of ethnic groups. And even today, many Catholic clergy are making independent apologies for things that have been brought to light by the secular press. The irony in this is that when one supposedly "Infallible" Pope apologizes for the error of another supposedly "Infallible" Pope," he shows the folly of the Catholic false teaching that the Pope, a mere man, is perfect and "Infallible." Let’s examine the Catholic "secret": Source: Chicago Tribune newspaper; Mar 31, 2000: Diocese apologizes for earlier abuses OAKLAND — In an emotional ritual, the regions Roman Catholic diocese made a public apology to victims of abuse by priests. Bishop John S. Cummins joined fellow clergy, victims and their families for the service. during which the diocese expressed deep regret for the "grave evil" of sexual abuse. "The … read more »

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