Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

Article by D. Hunt    The history of celibacy makes for reading so black. . A large part [of it] is the story of the degradation of women. . Ivo of Chartres (1040-1115) tells of whole convent with inmates who were nuns only in name . [but] were really prostitutes." –Peter de Rosa, Vicars of Christ "The recent disclosures of widespread sexual misconduct on the part of certain members of the Roman Catholic clergy come as no surprise to most of us who were once priests or nuns." –Ex-nun Patrici Nolan Savas in USA Today Let there be no understanding: We are not suggesting that Catholic popes, priests, and nuns are inherently more prone to promiscuity than the rest of mankind. Our hearts are all the same. Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them. That system, as we have seen, gathered momentum through the centuries by the lust and greed of popes whose natural propensity for evil (innate in us all) found occasion through the unusual opportunities afforded by their office. To enhance their power they issued a host of false documents which purported to be the writings of early Church Fathers and decrees of early synods. One self-serving theme of these forgeries was the claim that the popes had inherited "innocence and sanctity from Peter" and could not be judged by any man. Von Dollinger writes: "A saying ascribed to Constantine, at the Council of Nice, in a legend recorded by Rufinus, was amplified till it was fashioned into a perfect mine of high-flying pretensions. Constantine, according to this fable, when the written accusations of the bishops against each other were laid before him, burned them, saying … that the bishops were gods, and no man could dare to judge them" (J.H. Ignaz von Dollinger, The Pope and the Council, London, 1869, pp. 89-91). If one is on the level of the gods, what privileges could not one claim? Gods are above the law. No wonder, then, that the popes began to declare openly that they had power over kings and kingdoms and all persons, and power to behave like tyrants. The added pretense of infallibility only made matters worse. Each priest and nun, by association, shares (though to a lesser extent) this same corrupting absolutism and elevation above laypersons. Add to this pretended Godlike authority the unnatural rule of celibacy (an intolerable burden which only a small minority of persons could possibly bear) and the stage is set for all manner of evil. A sincere Catholic historian writes: "The fact is that priestly celibacy had hardly ever worked. In the view of some historians, it has probably done more harm to morals than any other institution in the West, including prostitution. … "The proof of the harm done by celibacy comes not from bigoted anti-Catholic sources; on the contrary, it includes papal and conciliar documents and letters of reforming saints. They all point one direction: far from being a candle in a naughty world, priestly celibacy has been more often tha not a stain on the name of Christianity" (Peter de Rosa, Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy, Crown Publishers, 1988, pp. 395-96). CELIBACY’S ROOTS AND FRUITS One must understand that mandatory celibacy is not taught in the Bible, nor was it practiced by the apostles. This teaching developed as an integral part of the evolving papal system and gradually became essential to it. The concern was not morality, for celibacy proved to be a veritable cornucopia of evil. In fact, the rule of celibacy was not the prohibition of sex but of marriage. Pope Alexander II (1061-73), for example, refused to discipline a priest who had committed adultery with his father’s second wife because he hadn’t committed the sin of matrimony. That was the great evil which had to be eliminated for the priesthood to be totally devoted to the Church. All down through history not only priests and prelates but popes as well had their mistresses and visited prostitutes. Many were homosexuals. No member of the clergy was ever excommunicated for having sex, but thousands have been put out of the priesthood for the scandal of getting married. Why then the strict insistence upon celibacy, even to the present day, if it really doesn’t mean abstinence from sex? It is because the rule of celibacy has a very practical and lucrative result for the Church: It leaves priests and especially bishops and popes without families to whom to bequeath property and thereby impoverish the Church. The clergy must have no heirs. Pope Gregory VII, bemoaning the difficulty in stamping out marriage among priests, declared: "The Church cannot escape from the clutches of the laity unless priests first escape from the clutches of their wives." Here is another vital reason for celibacy: to create a priesthood without the encumbrance (and loving loyalties) of wives and children. Thus fornication and adultery, though forbidden in theory, were preferable to a marriage relationship. Nineteenth-century historian R.W. Thompson explains: "It was considered absolutely necessary to the perfect working of the papal system that there should organize a compact body of ecclesiastics, destitute of all those generous sympathies which grow alone out of the family relation, that they might be the better fitted to do the work of the popes." (R.W. Thompson, The Papacy and the Civil Power, New York, 1876, p.443). Though married men in those early days were allowed to enter the priesthood, they were required to live celibate lives. Pope Leo I (440-61) decreed that married clergy were to treat their wives "as sisters." Few if any Catholics realize that as late as the reign of Pope Gregory VII (1073-85) it was accepted for priests to be married and supposedly live in celibacy with their wives. Such a requirement was both unnatural and unrealistic. Who could keep such a rule? All over Italy the clerics openly had largely families and no discipline was enacted against them. After all, many of the popes had large families as well and sometime made no secret of it. De Rosa comments: "This theological confusion in an age of depravity led the clergy, in fifth-century Rome in particular, to become a byword for everything that was gross and perverted. …When Pope Sixtus III (432-40 was put on trial for seducing a nun, he ably defended himself by quoting Christ’s words, `Let him who is without fault among you throw the first stone.’ "…roving monks were proving to be a social menace … there … were long periods when many monasteries were nothing but houses of ill repute. … The second Council of Tours in the year 567 … publicly admitted there was hardly a cleric anywhere without his wife or mistress" (De Rosa, op. cit., pp. 402-03). A SYSTEM MADE FOR PROSTITUTION For centuries the priesthood was largely hereditary. Most priests were the sons of other priests and bishops. More than one pope was the illegitimate son of a previous and supposedly celibate pope. For example, Pope Sylverius (536-7) was fathered by Pope Hormisdas (514-23), and John XI (931-5) by Sergius III (904-11) of his favorite mistress, Marozia, to whom we referred earlier. Among the other bastards who ruled the Church were Popes Boniface I (41822), Gelasius (492-6), Agapitus (535-6), and Theodore (642-9). There were more. Adrian IV (1154-9) was the son of a priest. No wonder Pope Pius II (1458-64) said Rome was "the only city run by bastards." Pius himself admitted to fathering at least two illegitimate children, by different women, one of them married at the time. The rule of celibacy literal created prostitutes, making Rome the "Mother of Harlots," as the apostle John foresaw. In his fiery sermons, Savonarola of Florence, Italy (soon to be martyred), called Rome "a harlot ready to sell her favors for coin" (Will Durant, The Story of Civilization, Simon and Schuster, 1950, vol. VI, p. 18) and accused the priests of bringing "spiritual death upon all … their piety consists in spending their nights with harlots." He cried, "one thousand, ten thousand, fourteen thousand harlots are few for Rome, for there both men and women are made harlots" (Ibid., vol. V, pp. 155-56). Pope Alexander VI threatened to "lay an interdict upon Florence" if it did not silence Savonarola. The city rulers obeyed for fear that as a result of the interdict all "the Florentine merchants in Rome would be thrown into jail" (Ibid., pp. 157-58). The pope wanted Savonarola brought to Rome for trial as a heretic, but the Signory of Florence wanted to execute him themselves. After signing confessions that had been wrung out of them by the cruelest of torture, Savonarola and two comrade friars were hanged and burned to ashes (Ibid., pp. 159-60). Yet this man who preached against the Church leaders’ immorality and was slain by Roman Catholics is now celebrated by the Vatican as "a giant of our faith, martyred May 23, 1498" (Inside the Vatican, April 1994, p. 55 under the heading "23 May"). What revision of history! Visiting Germany in the eighth century, St. Boniface found that none of the clergy honored their vows of celibacy. He wrote to Pope Zachary (741-52): "Young men who spent their youth in rape and adultery were rising in the ranks of the clergy. They were spending their nights in bed with four or five women, then getting up in the morning … to celebrate mass." Bishop Rathurio complained that if he excommunicated unchaste priests "there would be none left to administer the sacraments, except boys. If he excluded bastards, as canon law demanded, not even boys [would be left]" (De Rosa, op. cit., pp. 404-05). Even idealists became unprincipled rogues because the priesthood was one of the surest and fastest ways to wealth and power and afforded unique opportunities for the most … read more »

Response:

Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them.

Bull.  Mother Theresa and her sisters were and are celibates who continue to attract idealists to a lifetime of service and love.  What perverts and destroys clerical commitment is burnout and a secular society that patronizes and condemns their sacrifice.   The sexual sins of the clergy and the celibates are no worse than the sexual sins of our society; the sexual revolution has tarred ALL our churches.  How many divorced and remarried clergy exist in churches that allow married clergy?  Blessing same-sex "marriages" isn’t an example of loosening traditional sexual morality?   We tolerate children having sex with each other (ever hear of high school condom programs?); we tolerate gay recruiting on campus (ever hear of gay high school clubs?).  And they we wonder why our young people, including young priests, are screwed up sexually? It’s not celibacy.  Traditional marriage is equally scoffed at.  Sexual abuse of children comes from all parts of adult society.  It’s society’s rampant sexual immorality that’s the cause.  All the other "answers" are a cop-out.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them. Bull.  Mother Theresa and her sisters were and are celibates who continue to attract idealists to a lifetime of service and love.  What perverts and destroys clerical commitment is burnout and a secular society that patronizes and condemns their sacrifice. The sexual sins of the clergy and the celibates are no worse than the sexual sins of our society; the sexual revolution has tarred ALL our churches.<

Oh no. Papist filth is always Papist filth.

Response:

Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them. Bull.  Mother Theresa and her sisters were and are celibates who continue to attract idealists to a lifetime of service and love.  What perverts and destroys clerical commitment is burnout and a secular society that patronizes and condemns their sacrifice.

Nuns.  Ain’t got none, don’t want none, never will git none. The sexual sins of the clergy and the celibates are no worse than the sexual sins of our society;

Except that not only are they sinners but hypocrites as well.  Jesus hated hypocrisy, so yes, the clergy resides on the bottom of the barrel. the sexual revolution has tarred ALL our churches.

Excuses, excuses! How many divorced and remarried clergy exist in churches that allow married clergy?

Oddly enough, the funnymentalists and Baptists seem to have higher divorce rates than the general population. Blessing same-sex "marriages" isn’t an example of loosening traditional sexual morality?

If a same sex marriage is monogamous, and an opposite sex marriage is not, which one is the most "moral"? We tolerate children having sex with each other (ever hear of high school condom programs?); we tolerate gay recruiting on campus (ever hear of gay high school clubs?).  And they we wonder why our young people, including young priests, are screwed up sexually?

Who says our young people are screwed up sexually?  It’s all a matter of point of view.  They’d consider YOU screwed up! It’s not celibacy.  Traditional marriage is equally scoffed at.  Sexual abuse of children comes from all parts of adult society.  It’s society’s rampant sexual immorality that’s the cause.  All the other "answers" are a cop-out.

Yeah right.  You blame the pedophilia scandals in your pathetic, ridiculous cult – on society!  Talk about copping out!  What hypocrisy! — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them. Bull.  Mother Theresa and her sisters were and are celibates who continue to attract idealists to a lifetime of service and love.  What perverts and destroys clerical commitment is burnout and a secular society that patronizes and condemns their sacrifice. Nuns.  Ain’t got none, don’t want none, never will git none. The sexual sins of the clergy and the celibates are no worse than the sexual sins of our society; Except that not only are they sinners but hypocrites as well.  Jesus hated hypocrisy, so yes, the clergy resides on the bottom of the barrel. the sexual revolution has tarred ALL our churches. Excuses, excuses! How many divorced and remarried clergy exist in churches that allow married clergy? Oddly enough, the funnymentalists and Baptists seem to have higher divorce rates than the general population. Blessing same-sex "marriages" isn’t an example of loosening traditional sexual morality? If a same sex marriage is monogamous, and an opposite sex marriage is not, which one is the most "moral"? We tolerate children having sex with each other (ever hear of high school condom programs?); we tolerate gay recruiting on campus (ever hear of gay high school clubs?).  And they we wonder why our young people, including young priests, are screwed up sexually? Who says our young people are screwed up sexually?  It’s all a matter of point of view.  They’d consider YOU screwed up! It’s not celibacy.  Traditional marriage is equally scoffed at.  Sexual abuse of children comes from all parts of adult society.  It’s society’s rampant sexual immorality that’s the cause.  All the other "answers" are a cop-out. Yeah right.  You blame the pedophilia scandals in your pathetic, ridiculous cult – on society!  Talk about copping out!  What hypocrisy!

This is from the One, Holy, Apostolic Church, beyond which there can be no salvation. A light set on a hill. The salt of the earth.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of these tragic individuals no doubt began with high moral and spiritual aspirations and in that spirit set out upon what they sincerely intended to be a life of purity and devotion to Christ. It was the system of hierarchical privilege, power, and authority over the laity which perverted and destroyed them. Bull.  Mother Theresa and her sisters were and are celibates who continue to attract idealists to a lifetime of service and love.  What perverts and destroys clerical commitment is burnout and a secular society that patronizes and condemns their sacrifice. The sexual sins of the clergy and the celibates are no worse than the sexual sins of our society; the sexual revolution has tarred ALL our churches.