Question:
Christian greetings everyone in these last days of life on earth. Praise the Lord we are again being blessed with yet another glimpse into prophetic fulfillment. This is indeed a benefit for the end time Christian. Those of us that keep the Commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus are fully aware of the inevitable arrival of the mark of the beast. Better yet, we are also very much aware of the sealing of the saints by our Heavenly Father. Still, while we await that great and dreadful day we are to maintain the Christian pace and be the watchmen on the walls for those just outside the camp that are about to join our ranks. Sadly, Antichrist is also calling forth his own to ensure his camps come to their number as well. Sadly, that number accurately reflects the number of a man, and his number is 666. Just recently the media, under direct Roman influence, has once again allowed the Vatican to flex it’s ever present political muscles. However, now it is as we see prophecy declares it should be. Once again the Vatican has figured out a way mix state business with church business. Another prophetic fact is, no one seems to notice. It has been going on like this for so long that Rome has finally decided to no longer mince words as well. Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. Defiant Catholic Voters Shouldn’t Receive Communion, Say 2 Bishops Prelates in Colorado and Oregon Extend Warnings Beyond Politicians COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado, MAY 14, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Bishop Michael Sheridan says that Catholics should not receive Communion if they vote for politicians who defy Church teaching by supporting abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia or stem-cell research. -ZE04051425 The article went on to quote two other Bishops so as to make it appear this is a matter in which ALL bishops agree. That way the American Catholic will be lead to fear he or she is in genuine jeopardy if they vote against their church. Plus, the media flooded televisions, radios and newspapers with hundreds more articles on this very same topic the last few days to further solidify the assumption Rome is up in arms. Below is just one more example in fact. Notice how the article depicts the statement as "one of the strongest stands yet taken by a U.S. Roman Catholic Church leader." Bishop: BAR COMMUNION FOR ABORTION-RIGHTS VOTERS Friday, May 14, 2004 Posted: 9:42 PM EDT (0142 GMT) DENVER, Colorado (Reuters) — A Colorado Bishop, in one of strongest stands yet taken by a U.S. Roman Catholic church leader, says communion should be denied to people who vote for candidates supporting such issues as abortion rights, gay marriage, euthanasia and stem cell research. In my years of research I have seen Rome make many bold statements. But I must agree this one is a bit above the norm. As usual, the church of Rome will use scare tactics to push their agenda. However, this is not a religious action as many are aware, or may assume. This is a political move, nothing more, nothing less. To have these statements made at this time in the "political year" is apparent. Election is but a few months away and the candidate they seek to influence to their end has plenty of time to "recant" or spin the polls to his, as well as Rome’s advantage, regardless if he changes his position on the issues or not. Either way, Rome comes out smelling like a rose, and they know it. The Vatican knew all along about John Kerry’s stand, yet they didn’t make any bold statements until now. Am I for Kerry? Am I for Bush? Actually, I am for neither candidate. Washington hasn’t offered Christian’s a valid candidate in well over a century. Besides, they are BOTH pre-elected to run by the Bilderberg’s anyway. So why bother? The only thing the American people have a votable choice on now is which "flavor" the President will perform his duties. Will he be a Democratic Bilderberg man, or a Republican Bilderberg man? This is truly all we vote on now-a-days. Most understand what Rome is doing is just plain evil. They are FORCING the vote here. They are coercing masses of people to vote as they see fit. They are graphically mixing church and state. Sure they have done this "subtlety" many times before. However, now they see no problem with boldly directing the votes. By the way… If anyone thinks it’s because of abortion, stem cells, or any other excuse these bishops come up with, think again. All one needs to do is skim the history books, or just look back a few years and you will see bishops ADMITTING they knew the church took part in countless abortions as well as other atrocities. The Pope’s "Mea Culpa" of March 12, 2000 confirms that fact rather nicely I think. In fact, how can anyone believe the Vatican is concerned for human lives after admitting to killing over 500 million people during the dark ages? How can anyone believe they’re concerned after helping Hitler kill 6 million more? How can anyone think Rome is apt to embrace any moral issue after the ongoing child molestation scandals, and then the Vatican shutting down the Zero Tolerance option regarding their pedophile priests? Who is blind enough to believe this Vatican, which is right now being sued for their part in the Ustashe prison camp tortures and mass killings is trustworthy? The only ones that are blind to this are those that choose to be blind now. For there is truly that much evidence now that literally makes it impossible for someone not to know these facts. Why else do you think the Pope and all his men lied on March 12, 2000 in the so called mea culpa? They all know now that the people have access to this church’s graphic evil methods at the mere touch of a keyboard thanks to the Internet. All their dirty laundry is out in the open for all to see. That fact alone amazes me how this Vat of sin is still able to stand uncorrected by the "so called" moral authorities of this planet. Irregardless… that day is coming. Time is a funny thing. It eventually leads to a reckoning. Or as they say on the street… what goes around, comes around. My opinion? The only reason Rome is pushing Kerry against a wall before the election is because he no doubt refuses to take part in something that’s monstrously evil. So the Vatican will flexes their muscles so as to break his standoff. Is this why the FIRST Roman Catholic President, John F. Kennedy was assassinated back in 1963? Was it because he refused to do what his pope suggested? My sources, and many others say, YES! So, what’s behind all this? It’s no different than the Y2K crisis, or the so called Anthrax scare. The Vatican is doing as all big governments have always done. They make certain controlling statements, and then they WATCH THE SHEEPLE! Antichrist needs to get the people in line. He needs to know which political moves will work, and which political moves won’t. So, like it has always been done before, they will "test" the masses. This is no different than the "manufactured" election results of the Christian Coalition movement. Rome isn’t blind to the power the "church" has over the people that allow it such power. In fact, the Christian Coalition learned all it’s methods FROM Rome in the first place. I believe I made that fact quite clear in my October 2002 Newsletter entitled, "Christian Coalition to Create Image of Beast!" One more point I would like to make is this. If the Vatican didn’t have this Babylonian adopted wafer god they call the Eucharist, they would have absolutely no power over their people. Cardinal Arinze (The one running the prophesied Roman Ecumenical movement) said the following regarding same. Cardinal Arinze Explains Reasons for Instruction on Eucharist "The Greatest Treasure the Church Has" VATICAN CITY, MAY 26, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Cardinal Francis Arinze minces no words when it comes to the Blessed Sacrament. "The Holy Eucharist is the greatest treasure that the Church has on earth: It is Christ himself," said the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments. "Is it any wonder if the Church is careful to protect and guard the celebration of this august mystery?" he asked. ..Q: In the United States, but also in Europe, a great debate erupted over the consistency of Catholic politicians. There are several cases in which politicians declare themselves Catholics and then vote on laws and make statements in clear contrast with Church teachings, as is obvious in the case of the support of laws that facilitate abortion, euthanasia, homosexual marriages, and the spread of anti-life contraceptive schemes. Access by these public personages to the Eucharist creates scandal among the faithful. Does the instruction address this problem? What are the indications furnished on this matter by the dicastery over which you preside? Cardinal Arinze: Moral theology and canon law explain which Catholics may and which may not receive holy Communion… Q: … How much does the Eucharist count in the life of the Church and of the Christian community? Cardinal Arinze: The Eucharistic sacrifice is "the fount and apex of the whole Christian life." The Eucharist is at the center of the life of the Church. The holy Eucharist is the greatest treasure that the Church has on earth: It is Christ himself. -ZE04052624 In this article you see the Cardinal echoing Roman Catholic dogma concerning their idol they call the Christ. They teach their followers that the Eucharist is actually Christ Himself. And yes, we now see this Cardinal echoing the same concerns towards "Political entities" as did the Bishops in those other articles sweeping the nation. This now makes the Catholic believe it truly is an important matter. So they best toe the line, or else! To further illustrate that fact, … read more »
Response:
Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church.
And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. In particular, abortion on demand has become so engrained in our national agenda that regularly year after year a million unborn babies are slaughtered by their mothers in the name of "free choice." The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies. This of course only applies to Catholics who attend Catholic worship. Shunning is biblical. 1 Cor 5:11 We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them communion.
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Christian greetings everyone in these last days of life on earth.
Ahhh Nickie……are you feeling poorly? Please get well. Do Adventists have some form of Extreme Unction? BAM
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. In particular, abortion on demand has become so engrained in our national agenda that regularly year after year a million unborn babies are slaughtered by their mothers in the name of "free choice." The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies. This of course only applies to Catholics who attend Catholic worship. Shunning is biblical. 1 Cor 5:11 We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them communion.
Beginning with the original post, my comment is it is absolute RUBBISH. Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican.
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Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!"
I never said they didn’t. In facvt I said they are now shoving their political/religious statements in the Governments facs as of the Oct 2002 Christian Coalitian meeting. Why is it Catholic ALWAYS take people AND the Bible out of context? Had you read this post entirely Cuneen you would have avoided this embrassment. The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality.
You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish? Allowing abortions of prominent Catholics as well as nuns? Torturing and killing millions of ionnocent people? Melding Paganism with Christianity? Helping Hitler kill more? etc etc etc Too bad we can’t "VOTE" for clergy eh? In particular, abortion on demand has become so engrained in our national agenda that regularly year after year a million unborn babies are slaughtered by their mothers in the name of "free choice."
Just before Moses (a Messiah type) arrived. They killed the babies. Just before Jesus came, they killed the babies. And just before Jesus comes back, they wull kill the babies. Surprised? The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies.
Really? Then why is it they FINALLY decided to make mention of abortions and votes? Why not last year? The year before? The decade before? This of course only applies to Catholics who attend Catholic worship.
Catholicism – universal. You mean Universal, or global worship. The same worship they did at the Tower of Babel. Shunning is biblical. 1 Cor 5:11
So… abortion just started this year? Or is it because it’s an ELECTION year and Kerry is not the "perfect" Catholic? Hmmmm… seems WAY too obvious to me. We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them
communion. Oh? So PAUL was wrong and you are right? Hypocrite! If this really was a church of Christ it would not only have denied them worship YEARS ago, the Vat of sin itself would never have to admit THEY THEMSELVES took part in abortions! — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
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Christian greetings everyone in these last days of life on earth. Ahhh Nickie……are you feeling poorly? Please get well. Do Adventists have some form of Extreme Unction?
Well, I’ll say one thing in favor of Adventists, and I know quite a few of them personally, it’s not often that they feel or look poorly. They have dietary rules preventing them from eating meat, and it seems to work very well for them. A few months back I attended a large Adventist gathering/service, and out of hundreds of people, I saw only one obese person.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" I never said they didn’t. In facvt I said they are now shoving their political/religious statements in the Governments facs as of the Oct 2002 Christian Coalitian meeting.
As opposed, say, to the REVEREND Al Sharpton, or the REVEREND Jesse Jackson? Why is it Catholic ALWAYS take people AND the Bible out of context? Had you read this post entirely Cuneen you would have avoided this embrassment.
Always out of context? I hadn’t seen the original, but from what I can see of the thread, you seem to be taken pretty well in context. And for what it’s worth, it is the political process that seems to be shoving itself in the Church’s face. I suggest you read the letters of Cardinal Ratzinger, and then read how Congressman Clay believes that he can dictate Church policy in toto. The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish?
Would you like to see the statistics for other religions? Professions? You will find there is nothing to single out in Catholicism, so this is a non-starter. Allowing abortions of prominent Catholics as well as nuns?
I seem to feel Maria Monk in here…do you have any cites? Or will you make the silly claim that "that’s what the tunnels in the abbeys are for"? Torturing and killing millions of innocent people?
Let’s see the stats for these millions. Melding Paganism with Christianity?
Non-starter. The only "melding" that occured was superficial, and done in order to make Christianity seem more familiar to new converts. Dogma and doctrine were never melded. Helping Hitler kill more?
And yet numerous Jewish leaders, including Albert Einstein, Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett, and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog, expressed their public gratitude to Pius XII, praising him as a "righteous gentile," who had saved thousands of Jews during the Holocaust. In his meticulously researched and comprehensive 1967 book, Three Popes and the Jews, the Israeli historian and diplomat Pinchas Lapide, who had served as the Israeli Counsel General in Milan, and had spoken with many Italian Jewish Holocaust survivors who owed their life to Pius, provided the empirical basis for their gratitude, concluding that Pius XII "was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands." To this day, the Lapide volume remains the definitive work, by a Jewish scholar, on the subject. Interestingly, the campaign of vilification against Pope Pius can be traced to the debut in Berlin in February 1963 of a play, by a young, Protestant, left-wing West German writer and playwright, Rolf Hochhuth. The Deputy, in which Hochhuth depicts Pacelli as a Nazi collaborator, guilty of moral cowardice and "silence" in the face of the Nazi onslaught, is a scathing indictment of Pope Pius XII’s alleged indifferences to the plight of European Jewry during the Holocaust. etc etc etc
Translation: "I haven’t the time to think of more baloney right now." Too bad we can’t "VOTE" for clergy eh?
Sure, many Protestant denominations can. I wonder how they choose! Do they vote for (1) The one that makes them feel better about their lives, or (2) The one that gets more press for their church? In particular, abortion on demand has become so engrained in our national agenda that regularly year after year a million unborn babies are slaughtered by their mothers in the name of "free choice." Just before Moses (a Messiah type) arrived. They killed the babies. Just before Jesus came, they killed the babies. And just before Jesus comes back, they wull kill the babies. Surprised?
So this makes it okay, then? Sounds to me like you have the attitude that you wrongfully attribute to Pope Pius XII. The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies. Really? Then why is it they FINALLY decided to make mention of abortions and votes? Why not last year? The year before? The decade before?
What does it matter? Why haven’t other churches actually spoken out against it? In fact, why have other churches gone from being anti-abortion to pro-abortion in since the early 20th Century? Why does your God act so whimsical??? This of course only applies to Catholics who attend Catholic worship. Catholicism – universal. You mean Universal, or global worship. The same worship they did at the Tower of Babel.
Display of idiocy… You must do better than going off on a tangent that is so transparently nutty. Shunning is biblical. 1 Cor 5:11 So… abortion just started this year? Or is it because it’s an ELECTION year and Kerry is not the "perfect" Catholic? Hmmmm… seems WAY too obvious to me.
I bet it does. And if it were last year? Was Kerry campaigning last year? I do believe he was? And if it were 2002? Well, shucks! That’s just a way to beat down Hillary Clinton! And 2001…well, that would just give legitimacy to the Bush victory. No, wait. I’ll give you the chance to pinpoint a time in which the Church could actually stand up for its beliefs without annoying you. Which year would be good? We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them communion. Oh? So PAUL was wrong and you are right? Hypocrite! If this really was a church of Christ it would not only have denied them worship YEARS ago, the Vat of sin itself would never have to admit THEY THEMSELVES took part in abortions!
Again, unfounded allegations won’t buy you any respect here, but to show you as an infantile bigot. Alberich "It would be atrocious," I said, "to kill a man in order to say bu-ba-baff!" "It would be atrocious," William remarked, "to kill a man even to say ‘Credo in unum Deum.’…"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christian greetings everyone in these last days of life on earth. Ahhh Nickie……are you feeling poorly? Please get well. Do Adventists have some form of Extreme Unction? Well, I’ll say one thing in favor of Adventists, and I know quite a few of them personally, it’s not often that they feel or look poorly. They have dietary rules preventing them from eating meat, and it seems to work very well for them. A few months back I attended a large Adventist gathering/service, and out of hundreds of people, I saw only one obese person.
Brilliant. BAM
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<End of times blithering by Nicky snipped COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado, MAY 14, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Bishop Michael Sheridan says that Catholics should not receive Communion if they vote for politicians who defy Church teaching by supporting abortion, same-sex marriage, euthanasia or stem-cell research. -ZE04051425
Must be Nicky’s little remnant of Satan band supports abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia and stem cell research. Good to see Nicky’s little band is showing their true colors. -Tony
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Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic.
Sure they can. The apostles cast unrepentant sinners out of the church, and their successors can, too. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican.
Really? Ananias and Saffira were rebuked by Peter and slain by the spirit for a theological error? No, because they had defrauded the church. Paul cast out sinners in 1 Cor 5. Was it for heresy? No, it was for fornication, and not merely fornication, but fornication with his stepmother. Christianity is about what we should believe (Creed) but even more it is about how we should live.
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The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies. Really? Then why is it they FINALLY decided to make mention of abortions and votes? Why not last year? The year before? The decade before?
The stimulus I think is the possibility of electing a Catholic president who gives scandal with his anti-life positions. The bishops have been consistently anti-abortion. They were anti-abortion when the southern baptists were for it, a position they have fortunately repented of. You make it sound like they are finally getting around to being against abortion, and that’s dishonest. Of course, you hate Catholicism so much that I’d be surprised if a little dishonesty bothers you if it’s for the cause of slaying the dragon. We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them communion. Oh? So PAUL was wrong and you are right? Hypocrite! If this really was a church of Christ it would not only have denied them worship YEARS ago, the Vat of sin itself would never have to admit THEY THEMSELVES took part in abortions!
No, all I’m saying is that Paul was stricter. Perhaps with a young church (especially in the cesspool of Corinth) he had to be. What to do with the strayed sheep is always a judgement call. It’s not a matter of being wrong or right. The error of the Catholic pro-abortion folks is subtle. They PERSONALLY are against abortion, but they claim that in a pluralistic society you can’t force your beliefs on others, so we have to allow them to follow THEIR own consciences. In the past they have claimed the best way to fight abortion is through public education and awareness raising, NOT by passing sectarian laws. And so the bishops believed it was a matter of MEANS that kept them apart, but that all these Catholics shared the same ends, the end to abortion and the saving of infant lives. But these Catholic politicians are duplicitous. They continue to oppose any restrictions on abortion, even the most justified, like partial birth abortion. They support spending public money on providing free abortions and abortion counseling. They oppose any judicial nominees that are pro-life. In other words, they for all intents and purposes act like people promoting abortion, except for their little caveat, "I PERSONALLY oppose abortion." Funny way to oppose it! It has gradually become clear that they DO NOT share the same ends, the end of abortion and the saving of infant lives. And that is becoming increasingly clear to the bishops, at least to some of them. the Vat of sin itself would never have to admit THEY THEMSELVES took part in abortions!
I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like another one of your anti-Catholic mumblings….
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The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish?
The newest non sequitur. The Catholic church does not nor has it ever taught that child molestation is not sinful. Molesting a child is a heinous sin. That there have been priests who have molested children is undeniable. That they have repented, been through therapy and in some cases molested children again is undeniable. That the bishops showed negligence in believing they could be trusted with children again is undeniable. But the claim that the church "allowed molestation to flourish" is pure propaganda. The total percent of priests accused is less than 4%, and not all the accused were guilty. In a church with over 60 million members and 100,000 men in the priesthood over the last fifty years, there may have been as many as 15,000 children molested by 4,000 priests. That’s a serious breach of faith by these priests, but nowhere near "allowing child molestation to flourish." Allowing abortions of prominent Catholics as well as nuns?
If a Catholic is aborted, he never grows up to be prominent and she to be a nun! I’m not sure who you are accusing of doing the "allowing", but it is objectively an excommunicatible sin to have or procure an abortion. It doesn’t make a difference if we are talking about a prominent Catholic or a nun, and the go-ahead was given by the pope himself. It’s a sin all around. Torturing and killing millions of innocent people?
It’s abortion that kills millions of innocent every year, and that’s the evil we should all be fighting. Melding Paganism with Christianity?
Why not? The Israelites and the Jews included Canaanite feasts (Unleavened Bread, for instance) and practices in their religion, in many cases continuing to follow them even now. Once they were turned to the worship of the True God, their pagan source was irrelevant. Right now, Protestantism is melding Gnosticism with Christianity with their rejection of any material signs. Revelation calls for incense as a sign of the prayers of the people of God, calls for altars of worship, calls for wine and bread and oil and water, the richness of creation before God’s throne. And all they are left with is an anemic Christianity Lite, bare walls, bare words, bare hearts. What your brand of Christianity is afraid of is the sounds and smells and richness of the Temple of God. In resisting all suspected paganism, you also lose your Jewish roots, where worship was also a thing of robes and instruments and sounds and smells and richness, the Shikinah presence of the living God. Helping Hitler kill more?
He didn’t need any help. He was quite proficient at killing not only Jews but Christians, especially those who stood up to him. The shame of the popes of the early 20th century was that none were martyred. Given the obvious sinfulness of the times, their lack of strong witness is best demonstrated by the fact that no one hated and was threatened by them enough to kill them. Only the courageous John Paul came close to martyrdom, and he is definitely the most influential pope of the century.
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Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic. Sure they can. The apostles cast unrepentant sinners out of the church, and their successors can, too.
No doubt the Episcopalians would welcome the cast-offs and their money. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican. Really? Ananias and Saffira were rebuked by Peter and slain by the spirit for a theological error? No, because they had defrauded the church.
It’s too bad such things don’t happen today, that would surely discourage church attendence and would please persons like myself. Paul cast out sinners in 1 Cor 5. Was it for heresy? No, it was for fornication, and not merely fornication, but fornication with his stepmother.
Too bad Paul is not around today to deal with the pedophile priests and bishops. Some of the RCC clergy has gone way beyond being mere step-m*****f*****s Christianity is about what we should believe (Creed) but even more it is about how we should live.
Well, I’m certainly unimpressed with what I’ve observed, and I grew up in RCC tradition.
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But the claim that the church "allowed molestation to flourish" is pure propaganda. The total percent of priests accused is less than 4%, and not all the accused were guilty. In a church with over 60 million members and 100,000 men in the priesthood over the last fifty years, there may have been as many as 15,000 children molested by 4,000 priests. That’s a serious breach of faith by these priests, but nowhere near "allowing child molestation to flourish."
Repeatidly moving priests without warnings caused more children to be molested by that one pedophile than should have been. That is not negligence, not after the second time! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. — Alan "Ferrit" Ferris ()’.’.’() ( (T) ) ( ) . ( ) (")_(")
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Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic. Sure they can. The apostles cast unrepentant sinners out of the church, and their successors can, too.
You misunderstand what you read and, in many ways, contradict Christ himself. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican. Really? Ananias and Saffira were rebuked by Peter and slain by the spirit for a theological error? No, because they had defrauded the church. Paul cast out sinners in 1 Cor 5. Was it for heresy? No, it was for fornication, and not merely fornication, but fornication with his stepmother.
The verses from 1 Cor 5 are twisted in your mind since you very blatantly ignore the end of the quote: "hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. " That is not a cast out person but a SAVED one. Finally, Paul wrote many un-Christian and un-Christlike things. If you want to follow what he says none of you should be in church or will be saved. He repeats the same old Judaic obsession with formulas that base salvation on what you do not what you believe in. Remember what he forbids women to be teachers? If that teaching stands, for example, most nuns and Christian school teachers would be out of work because they’re women. You quote what suites you without understanding what decides faith and what decides morals. Christianity is about what we should believe (Creed) but even more it is about how we should live.
That is not what Christ teaches besides how you vote does not mean how you live your life. You and the Vatican are presuming to know how I live my life and all of you are WRONG.
Response:
That there have been priests who have molested children is undeniable. That they have repented, been through therapy
The proper place for them is jail, not therapy. That the bishops showed negligence in believing they could be trusted with children again is undeniable.
The proper place for those bishops is jail for being criminally negligent. If a Catholic is aborted, he never grows up to be prominent and she to be a nun!
If a fetus is aborted, does it go to heaven or hell? Is this a question that has an answer? Right now, Protestantism is melding Gnosticism with Christianity with their rejection of any material signs. Revelation calls for incense as a sign of the prayers of the people of God, calls for altars of worship, calls for wine and bread and oil and water, the richness of creation before God’s throne. And all they are left with is an anemic Christianity Lite, bare walls, bare words, bare hearts.
Go to a black (Afro-American) pentecostal church service sometime, preferably one with a large choir. Then report back to us if you think they’re anemic. What your brand of Christianity is afraid of is the sounds and smells and richness of the Temple of God. In resisting all suspected paganism, you also lose your Jewish roots, where worship was also a thing of robes and instruments and sounds and smells and richness, the Shikinah presence of the living God.
…see above Helping Hitler kill more? He didn’t need any help. He was quite proficient at killing not only Jews but Christians, especially those who stood up to him.
Hitler was continuing a well entrenched and established European practice, one supported by the Roman Church for many centuries. No amount of denial on your part will get you around this very basic, unpleasant fact. The shame of the popes of the early 20th century was that none were martyred. Given the obvious sinfulness of the times, their lack of strong witness is best demonstrated by the fact that no one hated and was threatened by them enough to kill them.
I think it’s a darn shame myself. We certainly need some dead popes.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. In particular, abortion on demand has become so engrained in our national agenda that regularly year after year a million unborn babies are slaughtered by their mothers in the name of "free choice." The bishops are finally showing some cajones by insisting that Catholic politicians either stop calling themselves Catholic or stop making a public show of the Catholicism by taking communion while advocating anti-life policies. This of course only applies to Catholics who attend Catholic worship. Shunning is biblical. 1 Cor 5:11 We are not even as strict at Paul, who wouldn’t even allow them to attend the worship. We merely deny them communion. Beginning with the original post, my comment is it is absolute RUBBISH. Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican.
You make as much sense as a penny Shan. — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
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Neither the bishops nor the Vatican can stop politicians or people from being Cathollic. Sure they can. The apostles cast unrepentant sinners out of the church, and their successors can, too.
sucessors? You mean the Apostles were sodomites with an appetite for young boys? I thought the PAGAN church was the forefather of that reality. Catholicism is faith in the Creed not moral questions. Those who don’t know that should go back to school including the seniles of the Vatican. Really? Ananias and Saffira were rebuked by Peter and slain by the spirit for a theological error? No, because they had defrauded the church. Paul cast out sinners in 1 Cor 5. Was it for heresy? No, it was for fornication, and not merely fornication, but fornication with his stepmother.
Then Paul would have cast out the entire lot in Rome! For the Vat of sin is truly a house of whores and whoremongers in every aspect of that word. Christianity is about what we should believe (Creed) but even more it is about how we should live.
Funny how you DON’T find that "theology" in a Bible. This is Christianity… Isaiah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Ecclesiastes 12:13, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." James 2:12, "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
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Too bad Paul is not around today to deal with the pedophile priests and bishops. Some of the RCC clergy has gone way beyond being mere step-m*****f*****s
spoken like a true Catholic. Rome would be proud — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" I never said they didn’t. In facvt I said they are now shoving their political/religious statements in the Governments facs as of the Oct 2002 Christian Coalitian meeting. As opposed, say, to the REVEREND Al Sharpton, or the REVEREND Jesse Jackson?
Psalms 111:9, "… reverend is his name." Those men claim God’s title just as does your pope. They are no more Christians than the sodomites of Rome. Why is it Catholic ALWAYS take people AND the Bible out of context? Had you read this post entirely Cuneen you would have avoided this embrassment. Always out of context? I hadn’t seen the original, but from what I can see of the thread, you seem to be taken pretty well in context. And for what it’s worth, it is the political process that seems to be shoving itself in the Church’s face. I suggest you read the letters of Cardinal Ratzinger, and then read how Congressman Clay believes that he can dictate Church policy in toto.
I suggest you read ALL the articles that came from your church shoving church and state and other demonic ideas in the faces of world governments froms day one. For a "smattering" of a few HUNDRED articles, see this… http://www.remnantofgod.org/1-w-c.htm The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish? Would you like to see the statistics for other religions? Professions? You will find there is nothing to single out in Catholicism, so this is a non-starter.
LOL! You’re kidding right? Have you seen THIS…? http://www.remnantofgod.org/rccsex.htm That’s just a few hundred articles and links proving you just lied. PLUS, where elese do you see thousands of lawsuits against ministers? Sure, you may have the occasional "so called" Protestant minister gettign arrested in a boys bed. But when you compare that with the LARGEST KNOWN ORGANIZED COLLECTION OF SODOMITE MEN (the Vatican) on earth, you fall WAAAAY short of the smallest possibilty of being believed by even a brain damaged corpse. I f I am lying, why is the USA Government put a gag ordr on the media reporting on the thousands of lawsuits on this topic against Rome. Becaus eRome forced them to! They knew if the REAL truth got out the Vat of sin would collapse, and all the pews would be empty. However, judging by how the people in this and other NG’s defend these child molesters, I can see that "some" of you would stay in your church. Hmmmm why is that? Allowing abortions of prominent Catholics as well as nuns? I seem to feel Maria Monk in here…do you have any cites? Or will you make the silly claim that "that’s what the tunnels in the abbeys are for"?
Did you READ or witness the "mea culpa" of your own Pope/ WOW! Catholcis won’t read their bibles, and they won’t even read newspapers now?????? Torturing and killing millions of innocent people? Let’s see the stats for these millions.
Again… youjr Pope ADMITTED IT. March 12, 2000.. Ummm were you in a coma? Melding Paganism with Christianity? Non-starter. The only "melding" that occured was superficial, and done in order to make Christianity seem more familiar to new converts. Dogma and doctrine were never melded.
Really? Hmmm then your FOREFATHERS LIED??? Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, …the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. {374}" -An Essay on the The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry "Cardinal Newman" p.359 (Also see According to Dr. E. D. Clarke, Travels, vol. i. p. 352.) The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the "New Babylon." -Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106 "Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use… the rulers of the church from early times were prepared should occasion arise, to adopt, or imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the (Pagan) populace." -Development of Christian Doctrine, Cardinal Newman. p. 372 Cardinal Newman lists many examples of things of "pagan origin" which the papacy brought into the church "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen: He stated, "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."–Cardinal J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic]. "The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, ‘Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.’ And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"–William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly]. "The mighty Catholic Church was little more then the Roman Empire baptized."– A. C, Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909 edition, p. 148. From ancient Babylon came the cult of the virgin mother-goddess, who was worshiped as the highest of gods–see S. H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition. This worship was taken over as Mary-worship by Rome. Heathen sun-worship on Sunday was likewise adopted by the Roman apostasy. ((( I HAVE HUNDREDS MORE QUOTES HERE FOLKS… http://www.remnantofgod.org/666-CHAR.htm#pagan It’s THAT easy to expose the bold faced LIARS) Helping Hitler kill more? And yet numerous Jewish leaders, including Albert Einstein, Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett, and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog, expressed their public gratitude to Pius XII, praising him as a "righteous gentile," who had saved thousands of Jews during the Holocaust.
Lies. Do you believe everything they say? Oh wait.. you just admitted you don’t read Newspapers on March 12, 2000. But… but.. wait a minute.. How did you find out about these lies regarding Hitlers pope? OH! I GET IT! If it’s PRO Vatican.. you believe it. If it’s ANTI Vatican you don’t.. Ok..ok.. I get it now. Look .. you can’t have it both ways. Especially after YOUR OWN POPE ADMITTED to those things you "conveniently" forgot to read. …SNIPPING THE REST OF YOUR BIASED LIES — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
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The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish? The newest non sequitur. The Catholic church does not nor has it ever taught that child molestation is not sinful. Molesting a child is a heinous sin.
Really? Then why did they ALLOW it to flourish? Why did they DROP ZERO TOLERANCE of it? Seems you need to ask your pope and fellow sodomites some QUESTIONS. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That there have been priests who have molested children is undeniable. That they have repented, been through therapy and in some cases molested children again is undeniable. That the bishops showed negligence in believing they could be trusted with children again is undeniable. But the claim that the church "allowed molestation to flourish" is pure propaganda. The total percent of priests accused is less than 4%, and not all the accused were guilty. In a church with over 60 million members and 100,000 men in the priesthood over the last fifty years, there may have been as many as 15,000 children molested by 4,000 priests. That’s a serious breach of faith by these priests, but nowhere near "allowing child molestation to flourish." Allowing abortions of prominent Catholics as well as nuns? If a Catholic is aborted, he never grows up to be prominent and she to be a nun!
Oh? Then your bishops and cardinals LIED on March 12 2000??? Why is it you catholcis CONVENIENTLY forget these facts? I’m not sure who you are accusing of doing the "allowing", but it is objectively an excommunicatible sin to have or procure an abortion. It doesn’t make a difference if we are talking about a prominent Catholic or a nun, and the go-ahead was given by the pope himself. It’s a sin all around. Torturing and killing millions of innocent people? It’s abortion that kills millions of innocent every year, and that’s the evil we should all be fighting.
Ok. so lets forget about the millions your popes killed and make nice nice? Melding Paganism with Christianity? Why not?
BECAUSE GOD SAID DON’T DO IT? Would that suffice? "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him…" -1 Kings 18:21, "When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." -Deuteronomy 12:29-32 wow… defend defend defend! That’s all I see Catholics doing lately. — …Nicholas www.RemnantofGod.org
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sure, they have made political statements from their pulpits for years. I know, I was trapped in Roman Catholicism for 29 years, I’ve seen and heard enough to know. However, now they are shouting boldly that if Catholics vote in certain ways they will be refused certain blessings from their church. And Protestant ministers don’t make political statements? How naive! The evening news shows candidates galore speaking at First CME Church or First Unitarian or whatever. You’ll never see that in a Catholic church! If you did, some ACLU type would scream "Church and State! Church and State!" I never said they didn’t. In facvt I said they are now shoving their political/religious statements in the Governments facs as of the Oct 2002 Christian Coalitian meeting. As opposed, say, to the REVEREND Al Sharpton, or the REVEREND Jesse Jackson? Psalms 111:9, "… reverend is his name." Those men claim God’s title just as does your pope. They are no more Christians than the sodomites of Rome.
And yet you seem to have no problem with their "shoving their political/religious statements in the Governments facs [sic]." Why is that? Why is it Catholic ALWAYS take people AND the Bible out of context? Had you read this post entirely Cuneen you would have avoided this embrassment. Always out of context? I hadn’t seen the original, but from what I can see of the thread, you seem to be taken pretty well in context. And for what it’s worth, it is the political process that seems to be shoving itself in the Church’s face. I suggest you read the letters of Cardinal Ratzinger, and then read how Congressman Clay believes that he can dictate Church policy in toto. I suggest you read ALL the articles that came from your church shoving church and state and other demonic ideas in the faces of world governments froms day one. For a "smattering" of a few HUNDRED articles, see this… http://www.remnantofgod.org/1-w-c.htm
I suggest that I have read more of them than have you, my sadly deluded compadre. The issue today is whether a professed Catholic can publicly support politicians whose moral teachings are repugnant to morality. You mean like allowing child molestation to flourish? Would you like to see the statistics for other religions? Professions? You will find there is nothing to single out in Catholicism, so this is a non-starter. LOL! You’re kidding right? Have you seen THIS…? http://www.remnantofgod.org/rccsex.htm That’s just a few hundred articles and links proving you just lied.
Quoting yourself or your own webpage is hardly evidence to support your argument. But, read: OVERALL DATA The National Child Abuse and Neglect Data Systems was developed by the Children
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The following is an attachment; a testimony that I received from a 28 >year old woman, from the internet. We share similar experience, as you > will read. Attachment follows: >Shiloh wrote: >I am reading a lot about people and their experience with being >labeled d+m+n-p+ssessed. I too was labeled d+mo+n p+sss-ssed >this summer. I went through three months of intense ex+rc-sm. Each >time coming out of the "session" with such a longing to die that I would >immediately seek refuge in the comfort of my warm blood. I know this >probably sounds weird, but this is just what I did. It was either >that, or standing in the middle of a river at midnight trying to wash >(baptize) myself clean. After three months of this literal h+ll I >have arisen from the dead into the light that says that I now have >even more alters than when I started working with this religious >freak. I was convinced that S=tan was inside of me and so were a lot >of my alters. I am now worse off than I ever was as far as >unification and therapy progression goes. So, all you religious >experts on p+ssessi*n and d*m*n*ology Tell me, if dem*n p*ssessi*n is >the cause of my multiplicty than why am I even more "multiple" after >such intense exorcism? and let me tell you of the reality of this >fragmented dwelling- My multiplicity is the full fledged product of >the hypocrytic church, quite contrary to your view of my submission to >S*t*n and his angels. Faith wrote: 