Question:
Mary whom you say is in heaven and you pray to her to pray for you is very confusing to me right now. I Thessalonians 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. These verses plainly tell me even those who have died in Christ are not in heaven yet. How can Mary be in heaven if everyone else who has died in Christ isn’t?
Response:
<< These verses plainly tell me even those who have died in Christ are not in heaven yet. How can Mary be in heaven if everyone else who has died in Christ isn’t? How do you figure Jesus’ promise to the other fellow on the cross, "This day you will be with me in paradise."? The martyrology of the early church indicates that the early martyrs expected to be with the Lord when they died, just as the good thief did. Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, who was martyred in 155, was said to have "earned his imperishable crown." Like Stephen, he had gone to be with his Lord. Protestants today typically look on Revelations as future prophesy, that has not yet been fulfilled. The early church, however, saw it as prophesy being fulfilled. The time of tribulation for them was right now, and those who were martyrs were to be expected to be around God’s throne. Other than the verses in question, do you have any historical indication that the early church ever interpreted death as being "sleep" rather than "life with Jesus"? Deo Gratias John
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary whom you say is in heaven and you pray to her to pray for you is very confusing to me right now. I Thessalonians 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. These verses plainly tell me even those who have died in Christ are not in heaven yet. How can Mary be in heaven if everyone else who has died in Christ isn’t?
From the perspective of the Orthodox Catholic Church, the Theotokos is the first to be in world to come. She has passed the "final judgement" and is in that place where we all hope to one day be. The Orthodox Faith has long celebrated the Dormition, or Falling asleep, the death of the Theotokos. Unlike the Roman Catholic church which took this Holy Day, long celebrated in the East before it found its way into the western calendar, and stressed the assumption of the Theotokos over their confusion over the question of if she died, the clear teaching of the Orthodox Catholic Church on this issue should help you. When the Theotokos died, and again do not listen to those in the Roman Catholic church who insist she didn’t, the apostles all gathered for her funeral. St. Thomas alone was late in arriving, getting there after her body was placed in the tomb. When he did arrive there he asked that the stone be removed so that he would be able to go in and pray before her earthly remains. When he was able to enter the tomb he found it empty and saw a vision of the Theotokos before the throne of God praying for those of us in the world. To be there she had to have passed the final judgement. Again, do not be confused with Rome’s new ideas about paying for one’s salvation through such things as the false belief in Purgatory. There is a partial judgment and then there is the final judgement. We know that Mary, the Theotokos, as the first redeemed passed the final judgement and is in the world to come. None of this is contrary to the verse you quoted. I certainly hope that the teachings of the Orthodox Faith is helpful to you. Evan Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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