Question:
<snip I never meant to get anything started either. I just felt the need to speak out and maybe point out that we all are not Christians on here but we do suffer from infertility so that is why we come to this NG.
Yes, we are not even all believers of anything, but our beliefs or non-beliefs are a factor in coping in life crises such as infertility. <snip Crystal I understand, too, what Crystal was saying about it not pertaining specifically to infertility. However, in my original post of the "God’s Embroidery" piece, I thought it was relevant to infertility as it dealt with God’s plan for us (our lives) not making sense to us at the moment and isn’t that what we’re all going through?
I would agree that life often makes no sense whatsoever. I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone and I certainly didn’t mean to start this big controversy. I receive many, many inspirational/religious things via email and very, very rarely share them with you all. I just know that I could not be going through this without my faith (and I’m sure we are all in agreement about that, though we may differ on the specific faith that we have) and I’d like to share that faith with anyone who needs help.
Nope! Don’t assume that we "are all in agreement" on having faith. I often hear "You have to believe in SOMETHING". Well, perhaps not believing counts as something. I don’t believe in the Christian God or any god for that matter. If someone even could prove to me that there was a super being creature that had control, then I’d give that creature a tongue lashing. Who made up the rules? After being raised a Roman Catholic for 32 years, I became a (born again) Christian.
I was ‘raised’ Roman Catholic too, but left when I was allowed as an adult. I’m still trying to spoon out pieces of indoctrination from my mind. Sigh! That decision has given me a tremendous amount of peace and happiness about my life.
The decision to leave Roman Catholicism and Christianity and basically any belief has given me a tremendous amount of peace and happiness about my life and in my life. I won’t write more on the subject here out of respect for those of you who think we’re getting too far off topic, but if anyone would like to email me privately, I would love to hear from you. Debbie
Take care to believers of ’something’ and those who don’t believe too, Meg F
Response:
AMEN!!!! (and very well put, Patti!!) I think that if religion helps some people, then it should be on this NG. I do<BR Clomid and IUI and I am not offended by IVF or Injectible posts just because it<BR doesn’t pertain to me. Not every post in this newsgroup is for every person<BR who comes here. Although I read them all….I’d say 1/2 the posts in here are<BR something I can relate with…so i focus on those instead. =)<BR <BR There are all colors of the spectrum in this newsgroup. Simply click on the<BR "mark read" button for those posts that you care not to read.
KellyClark
Response:
From what i have read, you seem to be the only one offended here. It appears that the Inspiration and Faith poems have done just that, inspired and given faith. They are labeled just what they were in content: Inspiration, Faith. That pretty much described what the post is about. Just like people put (m/c ment) (pg ment) they are warned if they do not want to read about m/c or pg, DONT CLICK. Same goes for these. Now this is getting all blown out of proportion and some are offended. We should just put (rel ment) on our posts for those who are offended. I am sure i am not the only one here who puts our faith in God here, whether Catholic or Christian. We are all in the same boat and shouldnt be told what to say or what not to say about it. Simply dont click….. KellyClark
Response:
I’m also Roman Catholic. That’s not exactly sonmething that should be shouted on this, or any IF newsgroup, as our Church’s teachings tell us that procreation is Gods work. ANY & ALL IF treatments *ARE* against the teachings of our church. I choose to follow my heart & answer to my God, when it’s time. Luck & fertile Prayers to all who pass this way. I am not a<BR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Christian, I am Roman Catholic,<BR <BR Roman Catholics are Christians.
Response:
Excuse me…….But, Christian means ‘Christ-like’! & what about our Jewish & other in our quest to rid ourselves of IF! I beg to differ…it’s a little different. My sister recently converted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -from<BR Roman Catholic to a Christian……I don’t know much about being a Christian<BR other than what my sister has done to the family—but that is a whole other<BR issue with her abandoning the family (because we are all "unsaved" and she<BR doesn’t agree with Catholic priests teachings etc…) I have nothing against<BR any religion, and what is between my sister and my family is just a very<BR personal, heartbreaking issue. She had to get excommunicated from our Church<BR before going on to this other Religion. The only basic thing I can think of<BR that is different in order to explain is that we (Catholic) believe and pray to<BR the Virgin Mary…my sister believes that the Virgin Mary is not to be idolized<BR and will not pray to her. This she was taught in her prayer retreat. There<BR are several other differences with the bible and all, but I’m not much into all<BR that so I never really listen to her.<BR <BR There is a difference between the two religions…sorry! I have proof as it<BR has torn my whole family apart in the midst of my IF treatments
Response:
Debbie & all, As I stated before I wasn’t offended by these posts in fact the post made sense to me. I responded to these posts because these were among two or three others that had no mention to infertility (and contained God). And I couldn’t find the others at the time. I never meant to get anything started either. I just felt the need to speak out and maybe point out that we all are not Christians on here but we do suffer from infertility so that is why we come to this NG. I just wish others would have read what I was writing and got my message before Tracy spoke up. I thought I explained myself well but apparently not. BTW Tracy thanks. Crystal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I understand, too, what Crystal was saying about it not pertaining specifically to infertility. However, in my original post of the "God’s Embroidery" piece, I thought it was relevant to infertility as it dealt with God’s plan for us (our lives) not making sense to us at the moment and isn’t that what we’re all going through? I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone and I certainly didn’t mean to start this big controversy. I receive many, many inspirational/religious things via email and very, very rarely share them with you all. I just know that I could not be going through this without my faith (and I’m sure we are all in agreement about that, though we may differ on the specific faith that we have) and I’d like to share that faith with anyone who needs help. After being raised a Roman Catholic for 32 years, I became a (born again) Christian. That decision has given me a tremendous amount of peace and happiness about my life. I won’t write more on the subject here out of respect for those of you who think we’re getting too far off topic, but if anyone would like to email me privately, I would love to hear from you. Debbie
Response:
I understand, too, what Crystal was saying about it not pertaining specifically to infertility. However, in my original post of the "God’s Embroidery" piece, I thought it was relevant to infertility as it dealt with God’s plan for us (our lives) not making sense to us at the moment and isn’t that what we’re all going through? I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone and I certainly didn’t mean to start this big controversy. I receive many, many inspirational/religious things via email and very, very rarely share them with you all. I just know that I could not be going through this without my faith (and I’m sure we are all in agreement about that, though we may differ on the specific faith that we have) and I’d like to share that faith with anyone who needs help. After being raised a Roman Catholic for 32 years, I became a (born again) Christian. That decision has given me a tremendous amount of peace and happiness about my life. I won’t write more on the subject here out of respect for those of you who think we’re getting too far off topic, but if anyone would like to email me privately, I would love to hear from you. Debbie
Response:
I’m<BR sure lots of us here share many things — Christianity, love of animals,<BR favorite movies, etc. But there are so many other places to discuss those. <BR
I WAS ONE OF THOSE WHO REPLIED TO CRYSTALS POST. BUT AFTER READING THIS, I AGREE… THIS REALLY HITS IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD….I STAND CORRECTED =) KellyClark
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not a Christian, I am Roman Catholic, Roman Catholics are Christians. I beg to differ…it’s a little different. My sister recently converted from Roman Catholic to a Christian……I don’t know much about being a Christian other than what my sister has done to the family—but that is a whole other issue with her abandoning the family (because we are all "unsaved" and she doesn’t agree with Catholic priests teachings etc…) I have nothing against any religion, and what is between my sister and my family is just a very personal, heartbreaking issue. She had to get excommunicated from our Church before going on to this other Religion. The only basic thing I can think of that is different in order to explain is that we (Catholic) believe and pray to the Virgin Mary…my sister believes that the Virgin Mary is not to be idolized and will not pray to her. This she was taught in her prayer retreat. There are several other differences with the bible and all, but I’m not much into all that so I never really listen to her. There is a difference between the two religions…sorry! I have proof as it has torn my whole family apart in the midst of my IF treatments. But anyway…this is an IF board….so let’s get back to infertility! =)
I read somewhere that way, way back before Christianity, most gods where female because females can create life and that makes them godlike (to simplify it). When Christianity was introduced they also wanted a female in Christianity so that more people would accept a church that prayed to a male god (which I guess was unusual back then). That’s why the Virgin Mary has the role it has in today’s church. Has anybody read the "Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley? I just love that book. The fact that you hunt eggs for easter has not much to do with Christianity. Christ’s resurrection just coincides with the pageant fertility celebrations. With eggs being the symbol of fertility. I don’t know why the easter bunny is distributing them, though. Probably because rabbits are pretty fertile, too. Maybe I should go for more egg hunts next year, that might improve my fertility…… 
But enough of that. I hope I didn’t offend anybody, I didn’t mean to. I just find the history of the church, any faith very intriguing. Heike — Remove "nospamblabla" from reply-to-address when replying.
Response:
The bottom line–even according to the RC Church…is that it is a couple’s individual choice RE: how to proceed where IF Tx is concerned. And as a recovering Catholic…I find the intrusion of anyone….priest, pope or other…in a couple’s personal decision(s) is tad presuming….
Response:
I am not offended! But I come here for infertility. That’s it. If you read my previous post then you never thought or answered my question.
I think it’s obvious many of the repliers did not read Crystal’s post carefully. She didn’t say keep your religion off the ng. She simply asked that this ng be used for posts related to infertility. I think it’s a good idea. I’m sure lots of us here share many things — Christianity, love of animals, favorite movies, etc. But there are so many other places to discuss those. Tracy
Response:
I’m also Roman Catholic. That’s not exactly sonmething that should be shouted on this, or any IF newsgroup, as our Church’s teachings tell us that procreation is Gods work. ANY & ALL IF treatments *ARE* against the teachings of our church. I choose to follow my heart & answer to my God, when it’s time.
My DH and I consider ourselves to be pretty devout Roman Catholics. We decided way back at the beginning of this IF thing that we would not pursue any treatments that were not in accordance with Church teachings. However, it is not true that the Church does not permit ANY IF treatments. I won’t go into all the details here (I’d probably mess up the explanations anyway!) :) There is a good article in the April 1997 issue of St. Anthony Messenger for those who are interested: http://www.americancatholic.org/sam_home.html Click on Archive (on the left hand side), then scroll down and click on April 1997. The article is entitled "Helping Childless Couples Conceive" To quickly summarize though, at this time the Church does not sanction IVF or ZIFT (though there are many scholars and theologians who respectfully disagree with the offical position). Medications (clomid, injectibles) are permitted in conjunction with natural marital intercourse. As far as GIFT, the article points out since there is no offical position (at least as of the article’s publication), each Catholic is free to discern his/her own moral situation and make an informed choice. I’m not trying to start any arguments about why the Church does not approve of certain ART procedures (that info is in the above mentioned article). I’m also definitely NOT making any moral judgments about those who choose IVF — just trying to clear up some misconceptions! Amy
Response:
As a Catholic, I disagrre with you statement. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the Son of God etc. Yes, there are many differences between Protestents and Catholics, but we are all Christians.
Response:
Oh gosh, I know this is sooo off topic, but according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary…… Chris*tian*i*ty (noun) First appeared 14th Century 1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2 : conformity to the Christian religion 3 : CHRISTENDOM 2 There are many forms of Christianity, the followers of which are all Christians. However, I think "Born Again Christians" tend to believe that they are the only "true" Christians, …….but I could be wrong. (no flames please….it’s just my understanding)
Response:
I did not mean to get something started on here! I wish you would reread my post. I said that I know that our beliefs have helped us through infertility and many other times but I really don’t think that this newsgroup is the one to be putting out posts that just pertain to religion. Now if someone put a post that was about how they were having a hard time with their infertility and they went on to say that they had gone to church. I could see where that had to do with infertility but in reality the few posts that I have seen have nothing to do with the subject of this NG. Lets look at it another way. How would you all feel if I put a post out that was Pagan or Wiccan and had nothing in it about infertility? Most likely I would be told that this is not the place for such a post. I respect that! That is why I have respected those on this newsgroup by keeping my posts on subject. Now once again I am not upset or flaming but like I said before I know that all of you don’t want to read posts that are Pagan or Wiccan based so I respect you and don’t send them out. Please think how you would feel if I did so. That’s all I am asking. I will respect this NG by keeping the rest of my posts on the subject of infertility. Take care, Crystal
Response:
I am not offended! But I come here for infertility. That’s it. If you read my previous post then you never thought or answered my question. So if everyone is alright with these type of posts then does that give me the right if I feel like it to post a Pagan fertility ritual or a Goddess inspiration post? I have no plans to because I like to stick to the NG subject (even though ritual would have to do with fertility) but maybe in the future I might feel the need to. I just want to make sure that no one jumps onto me because I posted such a subject. You have to realize people like myself (Pagan) are always told to just live with such things like these posts but when it comes time for us to share our beliefs no one wants us to post them. I am trying to understand where I stand in this. I have never taken a negative tone or been hateful but if I am to just "live" with this I need to know where others like myself stand as far as posting what we believe in. Crystal (PS I would never presume to tell anyone what to say or not but the same has to apply toward others telling me what I can say or not) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From what i have read, you seem to be the only one offended here. It appears that the Inspiration and Faith poems have done just that, inspired and given faith. They are labeled just what they were in content: Inspiration, Faith. That pretty much described what the post is about. Just like people put (m/c ment) (pg ment) they are warned if they do not want to read about m/c or pg, DONT CLICK. Same goes for these. Now this is getting all blown out of proportion and some are offended. We should just put (rel ment) on our posts for those who are offended. I am sure i am not the only one here who puts our faith in God here, whether Catholic or Christian. We are all in the same boat and shouldnt be told what to say or what not to say about it. Simply dont click….. KellyClark
Response:
I am not a Christian, I am Roman Catholic,
Roman Catholics are Christians.
Response:
I am not a Christian, I am Roman Catholic, Roman Catholics are Christians.
I beg to differ…it’s a little different. My sister recently converted from Roman Catholic to a Christian……I don’t know much about being a Christian other than what my sister has done to the family—but that is a whole other issue with her abandoning the family (because we are all "unsaved" and she doesn’t agree with Catholic priests teachings etc…) I have nothing against any religion, and what is between my sister and my family is just a very personal, heartbreaking issue. She had to get excommunicated from our Church before going on to this other Religion. The only basic thing I can think of that is different in order to explain is that we (Catholic) believe and pray to the Virgin Mary…my sister believes that the Virgin Mary is not to be idolized and will not pray to her. This she was taught in her prayer retreat. There are several other differences with the bible and all, but I’m not much into all that so I never really listen to her. There is a difference between the two religions…sorry! I have proof as it has torn my whole family apart in the midst of my IF treatments. But anyway…this is an IF board….so let’s get back to infertility! =) Best Wishes To All Who Pass Through This Newsgroup And Fertile Thoughts! Patti Fourth cycle of Clomid (2 at 50 mg, 2 at 100 mg) and 2 IUI’s (NO HCG shot). Last cycle- chemical pg. 1st RE appt. moved up to June 15!
Response:
The beauty of this NG is the honest expression of all who come here. Do not concern yourself with it being over run with one thing or another. You have the choice on what you read or pass up. We all find inspiation in different words ,so what may seem religious to you my inspiration to others. Just let it flow. Take care M9
Response:
I am not offended by these posts, not one bit. But I just don’t want this to over run the newsgroup.
I think that if religion helps some people, then it should be on this NG. I do Clomid and IUI and I am not offended by IVF or Injectible posts just because it doesn’t pertain to me. Not every post in this newsgroup is for every person who comes here. Although I read them all….I’d say 1/2 the posts in here are something I can relate with…so i focus on those instead. =) There are all colors of the spectrum in this newsgroup. Simply click on the "mark read" button for those posts that you care not to read. I am not a Christian, I am Roman Catholic, but with IF, we can all use any advice that can help us deal with this difficult time. Best Wishes To All Who Pass Through This Newsgroup And Fertile Thoughts! Patti Fourth cycle of Clomid (2 at 50 mg, 2 at 100 mg) and 2 IUI’s (NO HCG shot). Last cycle- chemical pg. Doing OPK 1st RE appt. Sept 4
Response:
Hi all! Please don’t take offense to this… I know that many of you are not religious and don’t want to be preached to. But, someone sent me this last week and it has really helped me to put things into perspective. Debbie
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