Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group, folks) God is Faithful The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age. What I noticed as a youngster was more on the line of Christianity calling on us to be better, nicer, more talented, always MORE. Evidently you aren’t interested in a faith that expects and encourages you to G R O W. I *AM* interested in your faith… that’s why I’m here. Just not interested in participating in it. But I have spent my last 50 years studying WHY we believe in Christ. We aren’t stupid. There are MANY educated Christians in MANY professions, such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, programmers, research scientists. I don’t doubt that… in fact, I know it to be true. My background is similar to the one you’ve described for yourself. I know several intelligent, thinking christians myself… in fact, most of my friends and family call themselves "christian"… That’s why they’re so much fun to talk to about this issue. The point at which we break down is when I simply ask, "why?" What would compel a person to believe something like that? Which is not to ask why one would WANT to believe it… I think the benefits from such belief are evident. But how could you take an honest look around you and believe such a thing? How could anyone take an HONEST look around themselves and NOT believe in the God of the Bible? The Truth is so EVIDENT.
In what way is the ‘truth’ of your religion evident? Show me the evidence. That’s where I just don’t get it. If you sincerely search, and you’re not merely being a troll, I suggest you do this. Begin reading the New Testament in a modern translation you can enjoy and understand easily. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you as you read. Something like, "I want to get to know you, God! Show me who you are and teach me as I read." He has promised to NEVER fail to fulfill that promise.
I’ve tried your religion in the past, and it didn’t work. I guess I could never really convince myself that I was talking to someone other than myself during ‘prayer’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And most of the time when the conversation breaks down to this pivotal point, people start getting pissed off and calling names, or don’t have anything substantive to say… at least so far in my experience. Well, ask your questions, as long as you are sincere, and genuine,and respectful. I have trained in "answering questions" (also called "apologetics") since my childhood. I may have had a benefit you have not had. ALL my pastors from my earliest memories were the Bible scholars of the 20th Century. SO I learned from the most learned men of my time (and disagreed with them). Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, It doesn’t fly in the face of MY experience.
Probably because you’ve been indoctrinated to percieve the world through the lens of your religion. I’ve had that perspective myself in the past, but have since shed it. Only means you have had a very dull life. I know few Christians who can’t tell you about the miracles they’ve experienced. I don’t doubt that. I can see how people might tend to call really cool events "miracles"… A "miracle" by definition, is a "supernatural" event, an event with no known physical cause.
Right. How do you "know" when a miracle has happened? Isn’t it possible that if YOU can’t explain an event, you might assume it to be "miraculous", when in fact it might have a perfectly natural origin? I would probably just chalk it up to a beneficial turn of events. All a matter of perspective, I suppose. You could say that. AGAIN, however, not only have I experienced miracles (healings, hearing God’s voice, feeling His touch on my body), most Christians I know have done so as well. And it is frankly ignorant of you to deny merely because you have not experienced.
I’m not claiming absolute knowledge of the nonexistence of miracles. I’m merely pointing out how improbable it is that anything supernatural has ever happened. You might as well deny that bananas exist merely because you’ve never seen one.
Right… much like you might as well deny the existence of flying invisible pink elephants merely because you’ve never seen one. evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it? You ask questions that are tilted against the right answer. I find NO conflict between common sense and faith. For one thing, every time I see a miracle, it’s that much easier to believe the next one is on its way.
Because you’ve convinced yourself of the "reality" of these things. If you had a non-supernatural perspective, you might feel differently. I know MANY Christians who have advanced educations. Logic and belief are NOT opposites. I agree. But you DID suggest as much.
Sorry you misunderstood.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age. I earnestly doubt that – You sure talk a lot, retard, for someone who isn’t asked much, if anything. Indeed you do, You are SUCH a loser when the best insult you can come up with is to repeat my words back to me.
Actually, John, the poster who has done you the most damage and insulted you the deepest is … you. When you speak pretentious words which are not able to be backed up you damage yourself. When you try to hide behind your mental illness you damage yourself. You have come up with some real lulus in your time. It is a pity. And the few people who have tried to warn you away from doing that you have scorned and shoved aside. When you make a claim, you stick to it like superglue — even though the claim is patently and demonstrably false. I remember your claim about the church buildings supposedly built by Paul the Apostle with the first century cornerstones with Hindu-Arabic numeration (750 years before those numbers were invented). The claim was silly. You should have let it drop. You should have apologized. Instead you waged jihad against those who asserted (correctly) that you were in error. So actually the best way a person has to insult you is to repeat your failed claims back to you. I feel sorry for you, but you earned this. But then your IQ of 50 is no match for mine. And, no, you don’t need to know what mine is, other than WAY over double yours.
And now we have another couple of assertions without evidence. John, do you even know what IQ is? Do you realize that IQ won’t make your errors right or your lies to be true? I could easily believe you have an IQ between 85 and 115. So does 68% of the rest of the population. I could even see you with an IQ between 115 and 130. 13.5% of the population fits there. But I have seen people with genius IQs in a prison where I teach because they did not know how to behave themselves. If you would wish to seem smarter than ordinary folk such as myself, you might wish to start by saying the truth and nothing but. Then you might progress to apologizing for past errors. You might also wish to quit using your mental illness as a crutch for bad behavior. And finally, you might start respecting others even when they disagree with you and take an inward look at yourself when your arguments fail to convince others. Of course, I expect a diatribe against me if you say anything at all. Or else I expect my post to get no response as if I were talking to a brick wall. But you profess to be a Christian, and as a Christian I rather feel that you need the counsel whether you like it or not. It is not good for us to put our Savior to shame by our bad behavior. Regards, Raymond E. Griffith (snipped rest)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.netfront.net!skynet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.freenet.de!newspee r1.nwr.nac.net!ply1.onvoy!onvoy.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POS TED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian. biblestudy,alt.religion.christianity,alt.religion,christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 85 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.5.191.227 Xref: news.netfront.net alt.talk.creationism:147776 alt.religion.christian.baptist:361502 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:166230 alt.religion.christianity:90479 alt.religion:53895 x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.g iganews.com!indigo.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out. octanews.net!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian. biblestudy,alt.religion.christianity,alt.religion,christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.5.186.218 Xref: news.netfront.net alt.talk.creationism:147757 alt.religion.christian.baptist:361369 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:166214 alt.religion.christianity:90463 alt.religion:53860 x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age. I earnestly doubt that – You sure talk a lot, retard, for someone who isn’t asked much, if anything. Indeed you do, You are SUCH a loser when the best insult you can come up with is to
Yes, you are a loser. But then, that is one of your best selling points./ The famous jw whines. *I have mental problems, nobody loves me, every one picks on me, I am so brilliant, I am so smart & no one believes me, I have no money, society is against me, no one cares about my problems, etc* If there is a whine to be made, sooner or later your name will be associated with it. repeat my words back to me.
The insult, i any, is in your lack of cognitive thinking skills & your childish attempt to denigrate those that know more than you. You are not worth the time, let alone the effort of a truly original insulting post. Your presence is insult enough But then your IQ of 50 is no match for mine. And, no, you don’t need
As I said, the famous jw whine. AS to the IQ, your actions indicate one of a -50, so it really does not mater now does it. After all, you are unable to discuss your myth in depth, you can’t do anything beyond parrot what you read & name hollow threats or claims for what your gods are going to do to others. Nt much there for an IQ in the way of evidence. to know what mine is, other than WAY over double yours.
Even where it true, which it is not, so what. I still know more & am able you provide evidence for that then you have ever come close to demonstrating. You can’t even tell the audience how your gods came to be or where they came from. I can, & I can provide the basis for that information without crawling back & hiding in quotes that are in error to start with. BTW, there is no one with an IQ as high as your’s according to you, what is it anyway, 208, 210, more? jw
The whiner waiting to die, no more, no less. & his posting history backs it up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – but then, you have to have something to do until Seattle is blown away like you predicted. Wait, that was last year. OK, you need something to do while evidence is manufactured that the claimed ossuary of James is decreed real & true, even though that was not the final consensus. Wait, that was the ossuary of St. James according to you. You need something to do while the new Cliff notes ate being printed so you can discuss when your parent myth wet monotheistic, & actually get it right or at least come close. Yet, the information is in your grimorie, if you can read in context. Or else it is just your apparent nasty streak that makes you try to cock a leg on every message you can. With your posting history, it can be many things, most repulsive. jw you look and behave more like the product of a really weirdo cult. You have signally failed to break away from the cult and become Christian in any form most of us can recognise And I earnestly doubt that it is all due to "illness" – even schizophrenia If you were ever Christian one would have difficulty explaining your membership of your present "demon" obsessed cult Somehow you missed or were misfired Or missed by the clean up crew.
walksalone who doubts jw will ever have an original thought of his own, the shock of such would kill him before he had time to post one of ho is PTLs. — The Hadith Qudsi 6 The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied – you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.g iganews.com!indigo.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out. octanews.net!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian. biblestudy,alt.religion.christianity,alt.religion,christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.5.186.218 Xref: news.netfront.net alt.talk.creationism:147757 alt.religion.christian.baptist:361369 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:166214 alt.religion.christianity:90463 alt.religion:53860 x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group) Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age. I earnestly doubt that – You sure talk a lot, retard, for someone who isn’t asked much, if anything.
Indeed you do, but then, you have to have something to do until Seattle is blown away like you predicted. Wait, that was last year. OK, you need something to do while evidence is manufactured that the claimed ossuary of James is decreed real & true, even though that was not the final consensus. Wait, that was the ossuary of St. James according to you. You need something to do while the new Cliff notes ate being printed so you can discuss when your parent myth wet monotheistic, & actually get it right or at least come close. Yet, the information is in your grimorie, if you can read in context. Or else it is just your apparent nasty streak that makes you try to cock a leg on every message you can. With your posting history, it can be many things, most repulsive. jw you look and behave more like the product of a really weirdo cult. You have signally failed to break away from the cult and become Christian in any form most of us can recognise And I earnestly doubt that it is all due to "illness" – even schizophrenia If you were ever Christian one would have difficulty explaining your membership of your present "demon" obsessed cult Somehow you missed or were misfired
Or missed by the clean up crew. walksalone who tends to agree with PL, jw is nothing like he pretends to be. Other than a liar. — The Hadith Qudsi 6 The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied – you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
Response:
A "miracle" by definition, is a "supernatural" event, an event with no known physical cause.
How does a natural human being immersed in a natural world get information on an event *which by definition* has no natural evidence???
Response:
. I know few Christians who can’t tell you about the miracles they’ve experienced.
That is because you have been hanging out with weirdos If you surround yourself with lies you become a liar too in the end!
Response:
Evidently you aren’t interested in a faith that expects and encourages you to G R O W.
But you didn’t John – you just did the "Born Again" Fraud trip and never grew up again. An intellectual retard as a result – sorry – member of a Cult! But I have spent my last 50 years studying WHY we believe in Christ. We aren’t stupid. There are MANY educated Christians in MANY professions, such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, programmers, research scientists.
Some people can study forever and learn precisely nothing That is your only achievement I know MANY Christians who have advanced educations. Logic and belief are NOT opposites.
But logic reason and indeed Christianity are not compatable with your personal belief system That is the important point You aren’t a Baptist or even a Christian – you are a cult member!
Response:
God is Faithful The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it?
You’re probably too weak to muster that kind of faith. Just forget about it. Don’t lose any sleep. Your experience seems paltry, your evidence mostly hidden, and your common sense must be uncommonly nebulous. Go back to sleep.
Response:
Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age.
I earnestly doubt that – you look and behave more like the product of a really weirdo cult. You have signally failed to break away from the cult and become Christian in any form most of us can recognise And I earnestly doubt that it is all due to "illness" – even schizophrenia If you were ever Christian one would have difficulty explaining your membership of your present "demon" obsessed cult Somehow you missed or were misfired
Response:
inferiority & let the following brown stains on the carpet, watch your step. Followup set to droll trolls home group, those poor Baptists. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.netfront.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.g iganews.com!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!ply1.onvoy!onvoy.com!feed.news.qwest.net! news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.talk.creationism,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian. biblestudy,alt.religion.christianity,alt.religion,christian.roman-catholic X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 52 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.5.177.123 Xref: news.netfront.net alt.talk.creationism:146480 alt.religion.christian.baptist:357760 alt.religion.christian.biblestudy:165511 alt.religion.christianity:89555 alt.religion:52705 x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group, folks) God is Faithful The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity
Is this the same xian home where you learned at the age of four to have sex, with a five year old girl? Is this the same xian home where you were*abused* by men& women [implied] by the age of ten. Is this the same xian home you asked to be adopted out of & into a black family from? Is this the same xian home that had a wife abuser [your claim] & that you were *born again[tm]* at the age of five? Is this the same xian home that gave you such a low self esteem you must engage in puffery to try & impress others, for you know yourself to well? Is this the same xian home that taught you it was not a problem if you lied, in spite of what the xian grimorie says about that? Or did you turn out sour in spite of a xian home? at a very young age. What I noticed as a youngster was more on the line of Christianity calling on us to be better, nicer, more talented, always MORE.
& yet, you never learned the lesson, or you are making things up again. Evidently you aren’t interested in a faith that expects and encourages you to G R O W.
If growing leads to becoming like you, I can understand why no one would want to follow such a faith. Can’t say as how I blame them. But I have spent my last 50 years studying WHY we believe in Christ. We aren’t stupid. There are MANY educated Christians in MANY
We, one of those sweeping generalizations you dislike so much, when others make them. Or do you think that by saying we, that some of the intelligence of others will magically be transferred to you? professions, such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, programmers, research scientists.
& like you, porn writers of unreknown, an author no publisher seems to have heard of, library’s can’t find, etc. Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, Only means you have had a very dull life. I know few Christians who can’t tell you about the miracles they’ve experienced.
Well now, I am sure that because they & you can not tell the difference between a good break at the right time & fantasy has nothing to do with your unfounded claims. Until you provide evidence, you are just dribbling shit from both ends. evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it? I know MANY Christians who have advanced educations. Logic and belief are NOT opposites.
But do they know you, & more important, are they willing to admit to it publicly? jw The term is "gullible".
Worse than that, but there are small animals within a thousand to one million miles of here, so I should not print them out. walksalone who has longs since known jw can not provide evidence but simply make various appeals hoping someone will be stupid enough to believe them. — The Hadith Qudsi 6 The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. The Almighty will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied – you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
Response:
Evolution is a fact. The world is filled with dumb monkeys.
…and the monkey speaks! You got it half right.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -x-no-archive: yes copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the group, folks) God is Faithful The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Having been raised in a Christian home, I was exposed to Christianity at a very young age. What I noticed as a youngster was more on the line of Christianity calling on us to be better, nicer, more talented, always MORE. Evidently you aren’t interested in a faith that expects and encourages you to G R O W.
I *AM* interested in your faith… that’s why I’m here. Just not interested in participating in it. But I have spent my last 50 years studying WHY we believe in Christ. We aren’t stupid. There are MANY educated Christians in MANY professions, such as doctors, lawyers, engineers, programmers, research scientists.
I don’t doubt that… in fact, I know it to be true. My background is similar to the one you’ve described for yourself. I know several intelligent, thinking christians myself… in fact, most of my friends and family call themselves "christian"… That’s why they’re so much fun to talk to about this issue. The point at which we break down is when I simply ask, "why?" What would compel a person to believe something like that? Which is not to ask why one would WANT to believe it… I think the benefits from such belief are evident. But how could you take an honest look around you and believe such a thing? That’s where I just don’t get it. And most of the time when the conversation breaks down to this pivotal point, people start getting pissed off and calling names, or don’t have anything substantive to say… at least so far in my experience. Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, Only means you have had a very dull life. I know few Christians who can’t tell you about the miracles they’ve experienced.
I don’t doubt that. I can see how people might tend to call really cool events "miracles"… I would probably just chalk it up to a beneficial turn of events. All a matter of perspective, I suppose. evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it? I know MANY Christians who have advanced educations. Logic and belief are NOT opposites.
I agree.
Response:
God is Faithful God is a myth. There is no "god".
Its ok. You claim to be related to dumb monkeys and you prove it above. Evolution is a fact. The world is filled with dumb monkeys.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God is Faithful God is a myth. There is no "god". Its ok. You claim to be related to dumb monkeys and you prove it above. Evolution is a fact. The world is filled with dumb monkeys.
So it is a fact that you also are a dumb monkey? I don’t speak animal so I hope you can read the above.
Response:
God is Faithful
The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it?
Response:
God is Faithful The problem with all this is, how does an individual muster up enough faith to believe the whole thing in the first place? Believing in something that flies in the face of experience, evidence, and common sense must take a huge amount of faith… doesn’t it?
The term is "gullible". — Stephen Bayzik
Response:
God is Faithful
God is a myth. There is no "god".
Response:
Salvation is from God only;
And gawd doesn’t exist, as can be clearly proven. Of course one has to think to understand this, so fundies like I-know-SHIT have no chance. — Regards Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig
Response:
. While we are told in Scripture that faith is actually the fruit of the Holy Spirit
Probably correct in that in Fundamentalist American Christianity it is rotten to its fascist little core
Response:
The Holy Spirit left the people you promote decades ago
Response:
God is Faithful "God is faithful by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of Jesus Christ our Lord." I Cor 1:9 Many Christians have problems with the idea of "faith". While we are told in Scripture that faith is actually the fruit of the Holy Spirit(Gal 5 :22 ). And in Gal 2:20 were are told that it is by faith OF the Son of God that we are to live. We are also told "By grace(God’s unmerited favor giving us the power to do what we ourselves cannot do) are ye saved through faith(not our own doing but by the Spirit of God); and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8-9 There are many false religions calling themselves Christian who violate, mostly through ignorance, this concept of "faith". Most of these teach that is by one’s own faith in their faith they are saved and kept and this is a great lie. Salvation is from God only; a free gift for all those who come to Him freely seeking His already purchased forgivenesss by the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. This misunderstanding of "faith" has led many to slide away from God’s calling thinking that they cannot be saved because they just cannot conjure up enough "faith" on their own to do the job.
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