Question:
x-no-archive: yes that’s what you profess. where did you read that?
Well let me see.Since you are completely ignorant: A Texan is from Texas. An American is from America. A Mexican is from Mexico. A Greek is from Greece. Where do you think a Christian is from? A catholic? Gee, you’re dumb. it’s not in the Bible cb so you made it up. quit sinning and repent. you can believe in Jesus if you open your heart to Him.
Do you have Scripture for your ignorance? Jesus Is Lord. Jesus Is God. cb in not the way the truth and the life,
That’s nice.Especially since I never claimed that. You’re futile attempt to discredit me because of an e-mail address is duly noted. Jesus is. cb go jump in a lake.
Why should I?Do you have any false doctrines to discuss or are you here just to annoy me? Sorry but it won’t work. I have had several people filled with hatred like yourself try to run me off. It won’t work. Go back to sleep. –steve
– Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
I find it comical that a JW should post to a Mormon newsgroup. I don’t know if this is meant for me, but I assume it is since it is sent a response to my post.
Sorry for the confusion. I did not post as a reply to you, even if my post happened to follow yours. I posted as a genereal comment to the originator of this thread. Peter Shalom
Response:
x-no-archive: yes it’s right to thank God cb. no you are wrong, cb. non-roman catholic christians and non-christians screw up ‘doctrine’ and twist it any which way.
non christian christians?catholics are not Christian, they are catholic. A Christian is a follower of Christ. A catholic is a follower of the pope (catholicism) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –steve x-no-archive: yes thank God the roman catholics are doctrinally right about them. wrong yet again.catholics have not a clue about salvation or baptism. They have added their own false doctrines such as "purgatory". catholicism is not doctrinally right about anything. –steve "snapshot from the crowd to the shore, baby." – the tea party 13 things the JW’s are wrong about:1. Jesus 2. salvation 3. baptism 4. the earth 5. death 6. the Kingdom of God 7. Heaven and hell 8. the 144,000 9. the Holy Spirit 10. the fulfillment of Matthew 24:26 11. Matthew 24 12. Old Testament prophecy. 13. the New World Bible translation
– Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
___Peter Jenkins___ I find it comical that a JW should post to a Mormon newsgroup. 1) Both religions have to rely on faith… —– As rightly noted by Joseph Smith, faith is "the principle of action in all intelligent beings" (LoF 1:9). Whether we are atheists or anabaptists, everything we do is actuated by our individual faith. Furthermore, as noted by Brigham Young, "There is not a person in this world … but is laboring with all his power for salvation." — Brigham Young (JD 1:1) An atheist may differ in his view of what "saves" him, but he is no different in the essentials from any religious man. As Prince says, "EVERYONE is lookin’ for the ladder." Including you, Peter. ___Peter Jenkins___ [Mormonism] cannot stand up to close scrutiny. —– Depends upon what you are scrutinizing. ___Peter Jenkins___ 2) Both rely on weird sources for inspiration. Mormons on the Golden Plates, JW’s on the Khufu Pyramid. —– Weird sources of inspiration? Mormons claim inspiration from God. The metal substance the Book of Mormon was claimed to have been originally written upon has little direct bearing on the religious significance of the text. I prefer my fully-searchable electronic version, thankyouverymuch. As for the JWs and the Khufu Pyramid…. your criticism is patently unfair. I don’t suppose they have been interested in that in nearly a hundred years. There was a time when "pyramid prophecy" was an area of intense popular interest, and this was certainly not limited to JW’s. ___Peter Jenkins___ 5) Both say that their leaders are absolute authorities, with a direct line to god (until they fail, or are proved wrong, in which case they are ‘only human’). —– I can’t speak for JW’s, but Joseph Smith taught: "An actual knowledge to any person, that the course of life which he pursues is according to the will of God, is essentially necessary to enable him to have that confidence in God without which no person can obtain eternal life… Such was, and always will be, the situation of the saints of God, that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course they are pursuing is according to the will of God they will grow weary in their minds, and faint; for such has been, and always will be, the opposition in the hearts of unbelievers and those that know not God against the pure and unadulterated religion of heaven (the only thing which insures eternal life), that they will persecute to the uttermost all that worship God according to His revelations, receive the truth in the love of it, and submit themselves to be guided and directed by His will; and drive them to such extremities that nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being the favorites of heaven, and of their having embraced the order of things which God has established for the redemption of man, will enable them to exercise that confidence in Him necessary for them to overcome the world, and obtain that crown of glory which is laid up for them that fear God" (LOF 6:2, 4). This knowledge of a necessity must come to the individual, not just to some Church leader: "God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what He will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them, for the day must come when no man need say to his neighbor, Know ye that Lord; for all shall know Him (who remain) from the least to the greatest" (TPJS 149). ___Peter Jenkins___ I never knew a Mormon who converted to the JW’s, or a JW who converted to the Morm’s (once you see through one set of lies, it is not so easy to be fooled again). —– Most folks don’t become Latter-day Saints so tht they can believe a bunch of "lies." So… what kinds of "truths" do you think Mormons find attractive in their religious tradition? As Mormonism has a very active intellectual and scholarly life, what is it that attracts and holds the attention of intelligent men and women in that religious tradition? Any guesses? Joe Swick Heretic
Response:
x-no-archive: yes thank God the roman catholics are doctrinally right about them.
wrong yet again.catholics have not a clue about salvation or baptism. They have added their own false doctrines such as "purgatory". catholicism is not doctrinally right about anything. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –steve "snapshot from the crowd to the shore, baby." – the tea party 13 things the JW’s are wrong about:1. Jesus 2. salvation 3. baptism 4. the earth 5. death 6. the Kingdom of God 7. Heaven and hell 8. the 144,000 9. the Holy Spirit 10. the fulfillment of Matthew 24:26 11. Matthew 24 12. Old Testament prophecy. 13. the New World Bible translation
– Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – emanated: You may not counter what is said in the New Testament with what is stated in the Old. Only the New may contraindicate the Old, not vice-versa. Talk about adding or changing God’s Word! If the NT contradicts the OT, then the entire NT should be discarded. The OT does not contradict the NT; the NT does not contradict the OT. It is only by *adding* and blending the philosophies of men into the scriptures, that the two appear to contradict each other. Ronald R. Day Restoration Light http://www.reslight.addr.com/ The Christ contraindicated several things stated in the Old Testament… "An eye for an eye", for example. Alan
No, he provided the ultimate fulfillment of the law; he gave himself, his perfect humanity as the ultimate eye for eye — life for life, as a ransom for the whole human race. Those Jews who believe in him become dead to the law due to their acceptance of his sacrifice, thus are released from the penalty of the law. If you really believe he contradicted the OT, then by the law you should reject him. The truth is, however, he fulfilled and magnified the law, he did not contradict it, although he did contradict some of the Jewish additionns of the law. Ronald R. Day
Response:
you will live forever the question is where!! with God or with the devil God provided the way, have you trusted and received the way yet? Jesus is the way to eternity with God.
Sorry, no where does the Bible ever say that the willful wicked will live forever. After the judgment of the heathen, only those who are obedient will receive everlasting life; the wicked depart into everlasting punishment in the lake of fire, which is the second death– eternal non-existence. — Matthew 25:46; Revelation 20:13-15. See: "Hope of Life After Death" and "Mankind’s Course to the Day of Judgment" http://www.reslight.addr.com/ Ronald R. Day
Response:
I find it comical that a JW should post to a Mormon newsgroup.
I don’t know if this is meant for me, but I assume it is since it is sent a response to my post. I suppose the original poster, being a JW, thought to influence Mormons to become to JWs. As for myself, I am not with the JWs, and feel no need to save as many as possible from eternal destruction in Armageddon. I believe, as Brother Russell did, that the gospel is sent forth to select a few in this age to rule with Jesus in order to bless all mankind during the Millennial rule. I have continued the crossposts as was given by the orignal poster because I do not know what newsgroup(s) posters before me are reading. Ronald R. Day Restoration Light http://www.reslight.addr.com/l-russell.html (Resource page on Charles Taze Russell) http://www.reslight.addr.com/l-jws.html (Resource page on Jehovah’s Witnesses)
Response:
you will live forever the question is where!! with God or with the devil God provided the way, have you trusted and received the way yet? Jesus is the way to eternity with God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I should point out for those of you who have not seen any of my other posts, I am an Ex Mormon. I stumbled across certain things and started doing my own research. Even though my research barely scratched the murky surface; what I found, was enough to make me part company with the Morm’s. Around the same time, a JW came to ‘witness’ to my wife. My wife let her in out of curiosity, and I started to read a little about the JW background as well. It was quite eye opening. I learned that neither JW’s or Morm’s have a monopoly on religious persecution (receiving persecution at the hands of others, or giving persecution, being mean, spiteful and nasty to anyone who leaves the ‘true’ Church). Neither of you should laugh at the ‘weird’ beliefs of the other side. Both are comical when looked at through a sceptical eye. Both religions treat their adherents like the proverbial mushroom. You are both kept in the dark by your leaders. Break free and don’t confuse IGNORANT with FAITHFUL Peter Shalom
Response:
I should point out for those of you who have not seen any of my other posts, I am an Ex Mormon. I stumbled across certain things and started doing my own research. Even though my research barely scratched the murky surface; what I found, was enough to make me part company with the Morm’s. Around the same time, a JW came to ‘witness’ to my wife. My wife let her in out of curiosity, and I started to read a little about the JW background as well. It was quite eye opening. I learned that neither JW’s or Morm’s have a monopoly on religious persecution (receiving persecution at the hands of others, or giving persecution, being mean, spiteful and nasty to anyone who leaves the ‘true’ Church). Neither of you should laugh at the ‘weird’ beliefs of the other side. Both are comical when looked at through a sceptical eye. Both religions treat their adherents like the proverbial mushroom. You are both kept in the dark by your leaders. Break free and don’t confuse IGNORANT with FAITHFUL Peter Shalom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
I find it comical that a JW should post to a Mormon newsgroup. 1) Both religions have to rely on faith, as they cannot stand up to close scrutiny. 2) Both rely on weird sources for inspiration. Mormons on the Golden Plates, JW’s on the Khufu Pyramid. 3) JW’s have forecast the end of the world 4 times. Mormons have said it is ‘nigh at the door’ for the last 160 years. 4) Both intrude on people, knocking on doors, hoping to catch them at times of family stress. 5) Both say that their leaders are absolute authorities, with a direct line to god (until they fail, or are proved wrong, in which case they are ‘only human’). I never knew a Mormon who converted to the JW’s, or a JW who converted to the Morm’s (once you see through one set of lies, it is not so easy to be fooled again). Peter Religion- the opiate of the masses (Karl Marx)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may not counter what is said in the New Testament with what is stated in the Old. Only the New may contraindicate the Old, not vice-versa. Talk about adding or changing God’s Word! If the NT contradicts the OT, then the entire NT should be discarded. The OT does not contradict the NT; the NT does not contradict the OT. It is only by *adding* and blending the philosophies of men into the scriptures, that the two appear to contradict each other. Ronald R. Day Restoration Light http://www.reslight.addr.com/
The Christ contraindicated several things stated in the Old Testament… "An eye for an eye", for example. Alan
Response:
You may not counter what is said in the New Testament with what is stated in the Old. Only the New may contraindicate the Old, not vice-versa.
Talk about adding or changing God’s Word! If the NT contradicts the OT, then the entire NT should be discarded. The OT does not contradict the NT; the NT does not contradict the OT. It is only by *adding* and blending the philosophies of men into the scriptures, that the two appear to contradict each other. Ronald R. Day Restoration Light http://www.reslight.addr.com/
Response:
Well, Sue, I must say that MY Bible talks about God creating a new heaven and a new earth. right before the beginning of eternity.
I am not with the JWs, but I do share some beliefs with them. I know of no scriptures that speaks of the "beginning of eternity," nor could there be a "beginning of eternity." From Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913) Eternity E*ter"ni*ty, n.; pl. Eternities. [F. ['e]ternit['e], L. aeternitas, fr. aeternus. See {Etern}.] 1. Infinite duration, without beginning in the past or end in the future; also, duration without end in the future; endless time. And, while we’re on the subject of eternity, I must ask a few ?’s of you, as an obvious Jehovah’s Witness: 1) Don’t JWs believe that Jesus is merely an agent of God, that He is actually the Archangel Michael? (Clearly contradicting John 1:1,14)
There is nothing in John 1:1,14 that contradicts the idea that Jesus, before coming the earth, was Michael the Archangel. 2) Don’t JWs believe that there is no hell? (clearly contradicting every Bible verse that refers to hell as "lake of fire", etc.)
Again, I believe the JWs teach similarly to what Brother Russell, taught that there is a hell, the condition or realm of the dead. There is not one scripture that refers to hell as the "lake of fire." Hell is destroyed by being cast into the "lake of fire", which lake represents the second death. — Revelation 20:14,15. See: "Hope of Life After Death" http://www.reslight.addr.com/ 3) Don’t JWs believe that only 144,000 people will actually go to heaven? (taking the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. COMPLETELY out of context)
The 144,000 stand with Jesus on the heavenly Mt. Zion, thus representing that they are the joint-heirs with Christ. — Revelation 14:1; Hebrews 12:22; Romans 8:17. See: "With What Body Will We Be Raised?" http://www.reslight.addr.com/ 4) Indeed, don’t JWs say that Jesus is not divine, part of the Trinity, etc.???
I think the JWs believe similarly to Bro. Russell, that Jesus is divine. This does not make him part of any triune God. See: http://www.reslight.addr.com;/l-trinity.html Resource Page of Trinity Refutation Please, let’s talk about eternity. Wanna know the true God of the Bible? Try reading the actual KJV, not the one tampered with by the watchtower society.
And the KJV is inerrant? All translations I have ever seen have biases (which can be good or bad) and questionable renderings, including the KJV as well as the NWT. What if I were to PROVE to you that Charles Taze Russell was a false prophet, and therefore, couldn’t possibly be sent from the God of the Bible???
Russell never prophesied anything and never claimed to be a prophet (except in the general sense that all Christians are prophets – expounders of God’s Word). Ronald R. Day http://www.geocities.com/~reslight/ Charles Taze Russell’s Works Online
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, Sue, I must say that MY Bible talks about God creating a new heaven and a new earth. right before the beginning of eternity. And, while we’re on the subject of eternity, I must ask a few ?’s of you, as an obvious Jehovah’s Witness: 1) Don’t JWs believe that Jesus is merely an agent of God, that He is actually the Archangel Michael? (Clearly contradicting John 1:1,14) 2) Don’t JWs believe that there is no hell? (clearly contradicting every Bible verse that refers to hell as "lake of fire", etc.) 3) Don’t JWs believe that only 144,000 people will actually go to heaven? (taking the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. COMPLETELY out of context) 4) Indeed, don’t JWs say that Jesus is not divine, part of the Trinity, etc.??? Please, let’s talk about eternity. Wanna know the true God of the Bible? Try reading the actual KJV, not the one tampered with by the watchtower society. What if I were to PROVE to you that Charles Taze Russell was a false prophet, and therefore, couldn’t possibly be sent from the God of the Bible??? Mark Allison
13 things the JW’s are wrong about:1. Jesus 2. salvation 3. baptism 4. the earth 5. death 6. the Kingdom of God 7. Heaven and hell 8. the 144,000 9. the Holy Spirit 10. the fulfillment of Matthew 24:26 11. Matthew 24 12. Old Testament prophecy. 13. the New World Bible translation The bible teaches to not add to or take away from the Scriptures. Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6, Revelation 22:18-19 The NWT is a perverted and twisted distortion of the truth. The watchtower has added to the word of God and committed a grievous sin. Compare any bible or any greek interlinear with these verses in their NWT: John 1:1, Colossians 1:13-18; Revelation 5:9-10; Hebrews 1:8; 12:28 and Luke 23:43 — Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
Well, Sue, I must say that MY Bible talks about God creating a new heaven and a new earth. right before the beginning of eternity. And, while we’re on the subject of eternity, I must ask a few ?’s of you, as an obvious Jehovah’s Witness: 1) Don’t JWs believe that Jesus is merely an agent of God, that He is actually the Archangel Michael? (Clearly contradicting John 1:1,14) 2) Don’t JWs believe that there is no hell? (clearly contradicting every Bible verse that refers to hell as "lake of fire", etc.) 3) Don’t JWs believe that only 144,000 people will actually go to heaven? (taking the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. COMPLETELY out of context) 4) Indeed, don’t JWs say that Jesus is not divine, part of the Trinity, etc.??? Please, let’s talk about eternity. Wanna know the true God of the Bible? Try reading the actual KJV, not the one tampered with by the watchtower society. What if I were to PROVE to you that Charles Taze Russell was a false prophet, and therefore, couldn’t possibly be sent from the God of the Bible??? Mark Allison —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.-Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4. 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Ps.37:9,11: "Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth….The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." Isaiah 45:18: "This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited."
So you don’t believe Peter? The Watchtower book "Let God be True" (copyright 1946, p. 176-180) teaches that the Hebrew word l’ohlahm does not always mean eternal or forever but also indefinite or undetermined time. They use this definition when they want to, and forget it when it does not fit their false doctrine. — Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – God created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.-Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4. 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Ps.37:9,11: "Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth….The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." Isaiah 45:18: "This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited."
You may not counter what is said in the New Testament with what is stated in the Old. Only the New may contraindicate the Old, not vice-versa. Alan "For My flesh is food INDEED, and My blood is drink INDEED." - John 6:55 …literal to those who believe, symbolic to those who will not… "…’This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’ " – John 6:60 "After this many of His disciples drew back and no longer went about with Him." – John 6:66
Response:
God created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.-Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4. 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Ps.37:9,11: "Those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth….The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." Isaiah 45:18: "This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited."
Response:
God created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.-Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. — Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thy hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Response:
God created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.-Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4. Do you want to live forever in Paradise on earth? Do you yearn to see your loved ones again? Then you must take in accurate knowledge of God’s will and purposes. In a prayer to God, Jesus said: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." – John 17:3. "The world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever," says the apostle John. It is God’s will that "all sorts of men should be saved and come to and accurate knowledge of truth." (1 Timothy 2:3,4) Now is the time to learn what God’s will is and be resolved to live in harmony with it. Then you, along with millions of others already doing God’s will, can live forever in Paradise on earth. Questions: http://www.watchtower.org
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