Question:
It is interesting, in passing, to note that all Scripture references in this new catechism are cited from the Revised Standard Version or from the New Revised Standard Version. The fact that the chief Apostate "church" has put such an unhesitating stamp of approval upon the critical text and the modern versions thereof is evidence that those versions are corrupted.
How many books does your Bible have, 66? Why didn’t your forerunner Luther and his types keep all 73 which were in existance since 400 or so? And what did all those people do before there was a Bible in 400? And what did all those people who couldn’t read do between 400 and the 1500’s when printing became affordable for the mass population? Yet you talk corruption. Please explain your position, and prove the sola scriptura on which your whole faith is based while your at it. How do you know which books of the Bible belong? Luther changed it, why can’t anyone else? Bruce
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The New Catholic Catechism The Roman Catholic Church published a new Catechism in 1992 in Latin and the English translation was completed in 1994. The following excerpts demonstrate without question that the Roman Catholic Church is apostate and cursed of God. Bible-believing people are commanded by God to separate from those who preach a false gospel. Some counter that not all Roman Catholics believe the following false doctrines. That might be so, but the fact is that the following is the most recent and most official declaration of true Catholic belief in print. If a professed Catholic does not agree with the following dogmas, he should not claim to be a Roman Catholic, because this IS Roman Catholicism. The blasphemous dogmas of this official Catholic catechism reveal the blindness and wickedness of those "evangelicals" who are calling for closer relationships with Romanism. It is interesting, in passing, to note that all Scripture references in this new catechism are cited from the Revised Standard Version or from the New Revised Standard Version. The fact that the chief Apostate "church" has put such an unhesitating stamp of approval upon the critical text and the modern versions thereof is evidence that those versions are corrupted. We turn now to the Catechism itself: Introduction by John Paul II The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the result of very extensive collaboration; it was prepared over six years of intense work … The project was the object of extensive consultation among all Catholic Bishops, their Episcopal Conferences or Synods, and of theological and catechetical institutes. As a whole, it received a broadly favourable acceptance on the part of the Episcopate. It can be said that this Catechism is the result of the collaboration of the whole Episcopate of the Catholic Church … the harmony of so many voices truly expresses what could be called the "symphony" of the faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual … who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes. These statements put the lie to the popular idea that there is no one true Catholic dogma and that Romanism has no symphony of faith. It also proves that it IS possible for one to know and understand what Catholicism believes without being a trained Catholic theologian. Following are the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church which are reaffirmed in the new catechism: TRADITION EQUAL WITH SCRIPTURE 80 Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other. 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.
Of course this is true, since Tradition was around before the Bible was. And they both are from God. BIBLE INTERPRETATION THE SOLE RIGHT OF POPE AND BISHOPS 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.
True also. 2 Pet 3:16 et al affirms this. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854…
Also true. Gen 3:15 affirms this. 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." …
She was indeed obedient to God and said "let it be done". 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).
She is the Mother of the Lord, Jesus, who is God. 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life.
Yes. God saved her in a special way. This is consistent with her being considered the Ark of the New Covenant and also the New Eve. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her …
She is our Mother, spiritually, since we are all brothers and sisters with Christ. She participated in God’s plan of salvation by giving birth to the Savior and being a part of his ministry. 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.).
If you don’t sin, then you don’t suffer the effects of sin… death. Enoch and Elijah also were zapped up to heaven body and soul. 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."
Exactly. Since Christ is our brother in grace, Mary must be our mother in the order of grace. 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
She interecedes for us as do all the Saints and as do our fellow Christians here on earth when we ask them. ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.
The Rosary is a reflection on the life of Christ and the life of Mary. So are the Gospels. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FULLNESS OF SALVATION ONLY THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." 846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation … thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
I’m too tired to answer the rest. But rest assured that they are all true, when understood in their context. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ALL GRACE COMES THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 819 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." 834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity." "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord" (St. Irenaeus, Adv. Haeres, 3,3,2:PG 7/1,849; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3057). NO CHRISTIAN UNITY APART FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose … The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit. SALVATION INCLUDES THE MUSLIMS 841 The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
… read more »
Response:
Hey Dave, If you all could wait, watch, and even defend and celebrate more than a millenia of mass murders, you can tolerate what Bornagain has posted, even if he posted it to you alone every moment for the rest of your entire natural life! The same logic was used against you all for ages, and it didn’t make sense for you all to stop. Take a cook drink and chill out! We handled lots worse for infinitely longer. You can handle it! Ted. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DO us all a favor and go stick your fingers in a light socket. How much would it take to get you to stand at the wrong end of a shooting gallery. You probably think you have some sort of monopoly on truth and salvation. For the past several months you’ve come on to the message boards repeating things which you’ve taken from somewhere else, often offering no explanation, and then just mechanically repeating them over and over again. This is the Fundamentalist Borken Record Method of Arguement, first used by the pharisees I personally suggest someone contact my-dejanews.com and do something about this bothersome pest who thinks he’s saving the world. Better yet maybe someone should just save the world from this pest. Ina ll honesty soulwinner, or bornagain, or whatever name you’ve pirated this week, do you REALLY think you’re doing Christianity any good. Does Jesus smile down upon your fun? Are you busy with your funny games, your rantings and your guns? Could you just go down the creek and leave us alone? Or better yet just jump in the resorvoir and get it over with now? Of course that would cause a water problem. But then again water is water and religion is religion and cereal tastes better with a chopped bannana and a little bit of sugar but you already know that. Or maybe you don’t know it; afterall its not in the Bible. So are you going to waste your life attacking other peoples beliefs? Don’t answer that you’ll take to long and probably put me to sleep. Actually I am sure God has a special place in heaven for people who condemned all non-christian religions. Some call it hell. I just call it the Southern Baptist Church. I notice some people make a distinction between the Catholic Mary and the protestant Mary. Apparently the former comes from Judea and the other one from West Virginia. I expect the reason the distinction is made is so anti-catholics can hate Mary and simeultaniously call her Jesuses Mother. Coincidentally she isn’t referred to by them as Gods mother, just Jesuses mother. Darned protestants have gone as far as to say Jesus wasn’t God. This leads me to the conclusion that anyone who says Jesus is God is going to hell. Is Bornagain (soulwinner) married? Does his spouse have to put up with his mechanical repetitions? Does he simply play a record of heavy breathing during love making? Does he tell his wife that she had better use birth control just so god knows she’s not Catholic? Does he go out of his way to eat meat on Fridays just so the cattle knows he’s still a protestant? Oh well. We’ll just have to see what the next arguement is that he repeats. I predict, if I have finally figured out the system, the next post of his should include the 34 things all Catholics "are forced to accept without question". Until then, -Dave
Response:
DO us all a favor and go stick your fingers in a light socket. How much would it take to get you to stand at the wrong end of a shooting gallery. You probably think you have some sort of monopoly on truth and salvation. For the past several months you’ve come on to the message boards repeating things which you’ve taken from somewhere else, often offering no explanation, and then just mechanically repeating them over and over again. This is the Fundamentalist Borken Record Method of Arguement, first used by the pharisees I personally suggest someone contact my-dejanews.com and do something about this bothersome pest who thinks he’s saving the world. Better yet maybe someone should just save the world from this pest. Ina ll honesty soulwinner, or bornagain, or whatever name you’ve pirated this week, do you REALLY think you’re doing Christianity any good. Does Jesus smile down upon your fun? Are you busy with your funny games, your rantings and your guns? Could you just go down the creek and leave us alone? Or better yet just jump in the resorvoir and get it over with now? Of course that would cause a water problem. But then again water is water and religion is religion and cereal tastes better with a chopped bannana and a little bit of sugar but you already know that. Or maybe you don’t know it; afterall its not in the Bible. So are you going to waste your life attacking other peoples beliefs? Don’t answer that you’ll take to long and probably put me to sleep. Actually I am sure God has a special place in heaven for people who condemned all non-christian religions. Some call it hell. I just call it the Southern Baptist Church. I notice some people make a distinction between the Catholic Mary and the protestant Mary. Apparently the former comes from Judea and the other one from West Virginia. I expect the reason the distinction is made is so anti-catholics can hate Mary and simeultaniously call her Jesuses Mother. Coincidentally she isn’t referred to by them as Gods mother, just Jesuses mother. Darned protestants have gone as far as to say Jesus wasn’t God. This leads me to the conclusion that anyone who says Jesus is God is going to hell. Is Bornagain (soulwinner) married? Does his spouse have to put up with his mechanical repetitions? Does he simply play a record of heavy breathing during love making? Does he tell his wife that she had better use birth control just so god knows she’s not Catholic? Does he go out of his way to eat meat on Fridays just so the cattle knows he’s still a protestant? Oh well. We’ll just have to see what the next arguement is that he repeats. I predict, if I have finally figured out the system, the next post of his should include the 34 things all Catholics "are forced to accept without question". Until then, -Dave
Response:
The New Catholic Catechism The Roman Catholic Church published a new Catechism in 1992 in Latin and the English translation was completed in 1994. The following excerpts demonstrate without question that the Roman Catholic Church is apostate and cursed of God. Bible-believing people are commanded by God to separate from those who preach a false gospel. Some counter that not all Roman Catholics believe the following false doctrines. That might be so, but the fact is that the following is the most recent and most official declaration of true Catholic belief in print. If a professed Catholic does not agree with the following dogmas, he should not claim to be a Roman Catholic, because this IS Roman Catholicism. The blasphemous dogmas of this official Catholic catechism reveal the blindness and wickedness of those "evangelicals" who are calling for closer relationships with Romanism. It is interesting, in passing, to note that all Scripture references in this new catechism are cited from the Revised Standard Version or from the New Revised Standard Version. The fact that the chief Apostate "church" has put such an unhesitating stamp of approval upon the critical text and the modern versions thereof is evidence that those versions are corrupted. We turn now to the Catechism itself: Introduction by John Paul II The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the result of very extensive collaboration; it was prepared over six years of intense work … The project was the object of extensive consultation among all Catholic Bishops, their Episcopal Conferences or Synods, and of theological and catechetical institutes. As a whole, it received a broadly favourable acceptance on the part of the Episcopate. It can be said that this Catechism is the result of the collaboration of the whole Episcopate of the Catholic Church … the harmony of so many voices truly expresses what could be called the "symphony" of the faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual … who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes. These statements put the lie to the popular idea that there is no one true Catholic dogma and that Romanism has no symphony of faith. It also proves that it IS possible for one to know and understand what Catholicism believes without being a trained Catholic theologian. Following are the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church which are reaffirmed in the new catechism: TRADITION EQUAL WITH SCRIPTURE 80 Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other. 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence. BIBLE INTERPRETATION THE SOLE RIGHT OF POPE AND BISHOPS 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854… 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." … 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her … 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.). 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. FULLNESS OF SALVATION ONLY THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." 846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation … thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. ALL GRACE COMES THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 819 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." 834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity." "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord" (St. Irenaeus, Adv. Haeres, 3,3,2:PG 7/1,849; cf. Vatican Council I: DS 3057). NO CHRISTIAN UNITY APART FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 820 Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose … The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit. SALVATION INCLUDES THE MUSLIMS 841 The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. SUPREMACY OF THE POPE 882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." 891 The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful–who confirms his brethren in the faith–he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. … The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. … This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. PRAYERS OF THE DEAD 956 "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. … They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus. … So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped." PRAYERS FOR THE DEAD 958 "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim … read more »
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