Question:
Not magisterial anything, and not tradition. SCRIPTURES is what they checked. Try again.
Most likely what they checked was the TANACK. After all, it is hard to check something that one is part of. dnp bardi
Response:
you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me. Yep
Not magisterial anything, and not tradition. SCRIPTURES is what they checked. Try again. Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures. Lie
Acts 17:10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Not a lie at all. Why would they search the scriptures if they couldn’t understand them? How could they "find out" anything if they didn’t have understanding? The lie is the rcc. Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures. LOL! Oh yeah like my understanding is beyond the Churches.
Like the Bereans checking the scriptures to see if what Paul said was true. But then, those Bereans obviously didn’t NEED to have Paul "explain" what the scriptures said. They used the scriptures to measure the truth or not-truth of what Paul said. The measuring rod was the scriptures, not what Paul (the church) said. You aren’t up to that type of thing? Because there is a way that is right unto God, and a way that is right unto men. One should check the way that seems right unto man, to the word of God. And to you TDP, I would say, please go to the bible to find out what it says. Bible is not the sole authority, Church came long before.
The Bible IS Authority, and your "evolved" religon is measured by it, just as the Bereans measured what Paul said by scripture. Since your "evolved" (apostate) religion doesn’t measure up well, we cannot claim your religion is an authority at all in matters of God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don’t go there trying to prove something you have already decided. That way you will tend to read more accurately. What I am saying New Prophet is that the Bible is not the sole authority. Yes, there may be some bias on part because I truly believe in the Churches Teachings. The Church preceded the Bible by some 400 years and without the Magisterium you have self interpretation. No you don’t. You have what the scriptures SAY (if God cannot communicate well enough, how can your frail old man in rome do better?). You have the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us Christians in our understanding. That is HIS job, not an old man in rome’s job. That’s right the Holy Spirit through the Church.
That is through US. We Christians ARE the church. Not the rcc, a political/religious "evolved" religion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. Of course, you catholics pooh-pooh that concept because you cannot read the Bible on your own and make sense of it, huh? Now, self interpretation leads to all sorts of ideas about what Scripture says. If you sit twenty people down in a room and have all 20 read the same verse, you will get all sorts of interpretations as to what that verse is saying. If you say so. This is why there are so many denonminations outside the Church Jesus established. In others words it’s total chaos! So your religion has brainwashed you into believing. In reality, we evangelical Christians get along quite well, have Bible studies together, pray together, have fellowship together, praise God together. Do you rcc’rs and orthodoxers get together for such stuff? I don’t think you do. Sure we do. On the other hand, the Church has one belief system and one leader to guides us worldwide. And That leader is Jesus Christ, not a feeble old man in rome. That is correct! The idea of Sola Scriptura came along some 1500 years after Christs’ death. I guess we will agree to disagree. Peace Be With You! Tony And to you.
in Christ Jesus, Christian
Response:
you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : No you don’t. You have what the scriptures SAY (if God cannot communicate well enough, how can your frail old man in rome do better?). You have the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us Christians in our understanding. That is HIS job, not an old man in rome’s job. Nor Peter, in that case, but Jesus gave him the job of feeding his sheep. I guess your lot back then accused Jesus of usurping the role of the Holy Spirit.
Try again. We have Peter, Paul, and all of the rest who penned scripture. But Peter never claimed to be "pope." Your religion just made that up. Christian
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me.
Yep Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures.
Lie Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures.
LOL! Oh yeah like my understanding is beyond the Churches. Because there is a way that is right unto God, and a way that is right unto men. One should check the way that seems right unto man, to the word of God. And to you TDP, I would say, please go to the bible to find out what it says.
Bible is not the sole authority, Church came long before. Don’t go there trying to prove something you have already decided. That way you will tend to read more accurately. What I am saying New Prophet is that the Bible is not the sole authority. Yes, there may be some bias on part because I truly believe in the Churches Teachings. The Church preceded the Bible by some 400 years and without the Magisterium you have self interpretation. No you don’t. You have what the scriptures SAY (if God cannot communicate well enough, how can your frail old man in rome do better?). You have the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us Christians in our understanding. That is HIS job, not an old man in rome’s job.
That’s right the Holy Spirit through the Church. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. Of course, you catholics pooh-pooh that concept because you cannot read the Bible on your own and make sense of it, huh? Now, self interpretation leads to all sorts of ideas about what Scripture says. If you sit twenty people down in a room and have all 20 read the same verse, you will get all sorts of interpretations as to what that verse is saying. If you say so. This is why there are so many denonminations outside the Church Jesus established. In others words it’s total chaos! So your religion has brainwashed you into believing. In reality, we evangelical Christians get along quite well, have Bible studies together, pray together, have fellowship together, praise God together. Do you rcc’rs and orthodoxers get together for such stuff? I don’t think you do.
Sure we do. On the other hand, the Church has one belief system and one leader to guides us worldwide. And That leader is Jesus Christ, not a feeble old man in rome.
That is correct! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The idea of Sola Scriptura came along some 1500 years after Christs’ death. I guess we will agree to disagree. Peace Be With You! Tony And to you. in Christ Jesus, Christian
Response:
No you don’t. You have what the scriptures SAY (if God cannot communicate well enough, how can your frail old man in rome do better?). You have the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us Christians in our understanding. That is HIS job, not an old man in rome’s job.
Nor Peter, in that case, but Jesus gave him the job of feeding his sheep. I guess your lot back then accused Jesus of usurping the role of the Holy Spirit. God bless, Stephen — — Stephen Korsman www.theotokos.co.za www.theotokos.co.za/adventism IC | XC NI | KA
Response:
you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Except the scriptures were not written by the time the events in Acts 17 occured.
Absolutely correct. Paul & company were preaching Jesus Christ from the OLD TESTAMENT, showing the prophesies that were fulfilled, etc. And they were checking to see if the OLD TESTAMENT really said those things. Now we have the WHOLE BOOK, so we check the WHOLE book. That doesn’t change the concept at all. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. Yes but the key here is that they were not looking at the New Testament to confirm those things. They were checking the Old Testament (Since they were in the Greek World probably the Septuagint) to check if the events Paul taught about Christ matched up with what was written about the Messiah. In other words they were accepting the Oral teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and using scripture to determine that these teachings were not contrary to scripture.
In other words they were DECIDING whether or NOT to accept what Paul said, checking SCRIPTURE to see if Paul was lying or telling the truth. No "interpretation" required. No "one man leader" required. Just God’s Holy Spirit guiding them to see what the TEXT SAID. Just like today. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. It can’t imply scripture only.
What they checked was scripture only. That is the ONLY THING it says they checked. NOTHING beyond that. DID Jesus fulfil the prophesies? IS what Paul said about these things true ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE? That is what they were doing. They were checking to see if what Paul claimed about Jesus was true of the Messiah and that therefore Jesus was the Messiah. That he would be born of a virgin into the House of David, and that he would have to die. Nowhere did the scriptures they checked contain the specific information about what Jesus taught or many of the things he did because many of those things were not in scripture yet. They were searching for evidence that what Paul taught was contrary to scripture.
NOT ONE WORD about "contrary to scripture," but that they "searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." NOT that they searched the scriptures to see if these things were "NOT SO." You are trying to give a negative twist that is not there. They were checking to see if Paul was right, not trying to prove him wrong. There is a difference. And they were themselves (without any old man in rome to "interpret" for them) checking scripture to see. WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAID would be the measuring rod for measuring what Paul said, not the other way around. No requirement for an old man in rome to "interpret" the scriptures for them so they could understand what the scriptures meant. Not then. Not today. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Nope its not. It is using scripture as a check on teachings.
Using the scriptures to MEASURE THE ACCURACY OF THE SPEAKERS. Not requiring an old man in rome to tell them what the scriptures mean, but reading the scriptures with understanding, then MEASURING THE ACCURACY OF THE SPEAKERS by that understanding. No different in Baptist churches today. The pastor or someone else preaches a sermon, going through a book of the Bible, giving a more thorough understanding of what it teaches (based upon study in English, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and all of the odditional tools at his disposal). We Christians in the pews CHECK THE SCRIPTURES to MEASURE THE ACCURACY OF THE SPEAKER, just as the Bereans did. Apparently you roman catholics don’t do that. It is true that most of you don’t know how. Obviously there are many things that are true that are not in the Bible (for example no where does the Bible say how far away the Sun is from the Earth). It is true that everything in the Bible is true and therefore if Paul had taught anything that was contrary to scripture then his whole teaching would have been corrupt.
On the other hand, the Old Testament DOES say a whole lot about the coming messiah (Jesus), and they DID have scripture that addressed that. And THAT is what Paul and company were speaking of, not scientific drivel. <snipped the part about the church or the Scriptures coming first I did that because whoever wrote it has not discerned that "the church" was not a "religious organization," but a loosely knit group of "congregations" (that is what the word "church," GK "ekklesia" means. . .a group of people gathered together for a purpose. NOTHING in the word about "religous organization" at all. They had secular farm meetings (ekklesias) that were not part of Christianity at all). Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures. Yes, you should definitely check it against scripture but just because you don’t find the teaching there, it doesn’t mean what they teach you is false or even that it is not in scripture (after all the Bible is a big book, it could be easy to overlook something in scripture).
Not as many of us as there are who examine it daily! And any "new" teaching cannot contradict the SCRIPTURAL TEACHING (which is from God) and be of God. Like a feeble old man in rome having a "special ability" to "interpret" the scriptures for everyone else Like the statues Like praying to folks who have died Like pretending Mary was God’s mother, or co-redemtrix. Like unmarried leaders in the church Like infant Baptism etc etc etc etc In the Name of Jesus Christ | ____ | | Christian
Response:
you posted in alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me. Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures. Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures. Because there is a way that is right unto God, and a way that is right unto men. One should check the way that seems right unto man, to the word of God. And to you TDP, I would say, please go to the bible to find out what it says. Don’t go there trying to prove something you have already decided. That way you will tend to read more accurately. What I am saying New Prophet is that the Bible is not the sole authority. Yes, there may be some bias on part because I truly believe in the Churches Teachings. The Church preceded the Bible by some 400 years and without the Magisterium you have self interpretation.
No you don’t. You have what the scriptures SAY (if God cannot communicate well enough, how can your frail old man in rome do better?). You have the HOLY SPIRIT guiding us Christians in our understanding. That is HIS job, not an old man in rome’s job. John 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 "You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. Of course, you catholics pooh-pooh that concept because you cannot read the Bible on your own and make sense of it, huh? Now, self interpretation leads to all sorts of ideas about what Scripture says. If you sit twenty people down in a room and have all 20 read the same verse, you will get all sorts of interpretations as to what that verse is saying.
If you say so. This is why there are so many denonminations outside the Church Jesus established. In others words it’s total chaos!
So your religion has brainwashed you into believing. In reality, we evangelical Christians get along quite well, have Bible studies together, pray together, have fellowship together, praise God together. Do you rcc’rs and orthodoxers get together for such stuff? I don’t think you do. On the other hand, the Church has one belief system and one leader to guides us worldwide.
And That leader is Jesus Christ, not a feeble old man in rome. The idea of Sola Scriptura came along some 1500 years after Christs’ death. I guess we will agree to disagree. Peace Be With You! Tony
And to you. in Christ Jesus, Christian
Response:
I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me.
Except the scriptures were not written by the time the events in Acts 17 occured. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true.
Yes but the key here is that they were not looking at the New Testament to confirm those things. They were checking the Old Testament (Since they were in the Greek World probably the Septuagint) to check if the events Paul taught about Christ matched up with what was written about the Messiah. In other words they were accepting the Oral teachings of Jesus and the Apostles and using scripture to determine that these teachings were not contrary to scripture. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to.
It can’t imply scripture only. They were checking to see if what Paul claimed about Jesus was true of the Messiah and that therefore Jesus was the Messiah. That he would be born of a virgin into the House of David, and that he would have to die. Nowhere did the scriptures they checked contain the specific information about what Jesus taught or many of the things he did because many of those things were not in scripture yet. They were searching for evidence that what Paul taught was contrary to scripture. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura.
Nope its not. It is using scripture as a check on teachings. Obviously there are many things that are true that are not in the Bible (for example no where does the Bible say how far away the Sun is from the Earth). It is true that everything in the Bible is true and therefore if Paul had taught anything that was contrary to scripture then his whole teaching would have been corrupt. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me. Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first.
The Church did come before the New Testament. The Church was founded as it were at the Last Supper and went public at Pentacost, decades before the first word of the New Testament would be written by Paul. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures.
Groups of believers are not the Church? What is the Church if not the groups of believers? Reading the scriptures is certainly noble and just and indeed there can be nothing in Tradition that is contrary to scripture but that does not mean that scripture is the sum total of all truth. It wasn’t when Paul was spreading the words in Acts (if it was then why did Paul need to spread the word to those who read scripture) and it is not now. It is however the highest truth. Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures.
Yes, you should definitely check it against scripture but just because you don’t find the teaching there, it doesn’t mean what they teach you is false or even that it is not in scripture (after all the Bible is a big book, it could be easy to overlook something in scripture). — Bill
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May 13th – St. Erconwald Bishop of London, died about 690. He belonged to the princely family of the East Anglian Offa, and devoted a considerable portion of his patrimony to founding two monasteries, one for monks at Chertsey, and the other for nuns at Barking in Essex. Over the latter he placed hiss sister, St. Ethelburga, as abbess. He himself discharged the duties of superior at Chertsey. Erconwald continued his monastic life till the death of Bishop Wini in 675, when he was called to the See of London, at the instance of King Sebbi and Theodore, Archbishop of Canterbury. As monk and bishop he was renowned for his holiness of life, and miracles were wrought in attestation of his sanctity. The sick were cured by contact with the litter on which he had been carried; this we have on the testimony of Venerable Bede. He was present in 686 at the reconciliation between Archbishop Theodore and Wilfrith. King Ini in the preface to his laws calls Erconwald "my bishop". During his episcopate he enlarged his church, augmented its revenues, and obtained for it special privileges from the king. According to an ancient epitaph, Erconwald ruled the Diocese of London for eleven years. He is said to have eventually retired to the convent of his sister in Barking, where he died 30 April. He was buried in St. Paul s, and his tomb became renowned for miracles. The citizens of London had a special devotion to him, and they regarded with pride the magnificence of his shrine. During the burning of the cathedral in 1087 it is related that the shrine and its silken coverings remained intact. A solemn translation of St. Erconwald’s body took place 14 Nov., 1148, when it was raised above the high altar. The shrine was robbed of its jewels and ornaments in the sixteenth century; and the bones of the saint are said to have been then buried at the east end of the choir. His feast is observed by English Catholics on 14 November. Prior to the Reformation, the anniversaries of St. Erconwald’s death and translation of his relics were observed at St. Paul’s as feasts of the first class, according to an ordinance of Bishop Braybroke in 1386. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05517a.htm <<<< Martyrology At Bologna, a commemoration of the precious death of Blessed Imelda, virgin, of the Order of Preachers After receiving the sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist, which she most ardently desired, she could not sustain the most intense fire of love. Her journey in life ended, she happily entered heaven to reign as a victim of love. A duplex feast. At Rome, the dedication of the church of St. Mary of the Martyrs. In the reign of the Emperor Phocas, Pope St. Boniface IV purified the Pantheon, the ancient temple of all the gods, and consecrated it in honor of our Lady and all the holy martyrs. But later, the Sovereign Pontiff, Gregory IV, decreed that the annual solemnity, now extended to honor all saints, should be observed by the Universal Church on November 1. At Constantinople, Blessed Mucius, priest and martyr. At the time of the Emperor Diocletian and the proconsul Laudicius, he was subjected to many penalties and tortures because of his faith. He was first tortured at Amphipolis in Macedonia; then he was taken to Constantinople where he was beheaded. At Alexandria, the commemoration of many holy martyrs, who were slain by the Arians in the church at Theonas on account of their Catholic faith. At Heraclea in Thrace, St. Glyceria, a Roman martyr. She suffered many grievous torments from the hands of the governor Sabinus in the reign of the Emperor Antoninus; but she escaped unharmed from them all by the help of God. At length she was cast to the wild beasts; when one of them had bitten her, she gave up her soul to God. At Utrecht, St. Servatius, Bishop of the Church of Tongres. His merits were made plain to all men by the fact that, in winter, when snow covered all the earth round about, it never fell upon his tomb, until by the zeal of the citizens a basilica was built thereon. His feast is observed May 22. <<<<< A prayer to Saint Raphael, the Archangel: Holy Ghost. Amen. Glorious archangel, St. Raphael, great prince of the heavenly court, illustrious by thy gifts of wisdom and grace, guide of travelers by land and sea, consoler of the unfortunate and refuge of sinners, I entreat thee to help me in all my needs and in all the trials of this life, as thou didst assist the young Tobias in his journeying. And since thou art the "physician of God", I humbled pray to thee to heal my soul of its many infirmities and my body of the ills that afflict it, if this favor is for my greater good. I ask, especially, for angelic purity, that I may be made fit to be the living temple of the
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me. Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures. Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures. Because there is a way that is right unto God, and a way that is right unto men. One should check the way that seems right unto man, to the word of God. And to you TDP, I would say, please go to the bible to find out what it says. Don’t go there trying to prove something you have already decided. That way you will tend to read more accurately.
What I am saying New Prophet is that the Bible is not the sole authority. Yes, there may be some bias on part because I truly believe in the Churches Teachings. The Church preceded the Bible by some 400 years and without the Magisterium you have self interpretation. Now, self interpretation leads to all sorts of ideas about what Scripture says. If you sit twenty people down in a room and have all 20 read the same verse, you will get all sorts of interpretations as to what that verse is saying. This is why there are so many denonminations outside the Church Jesus established. In others words it’s total chaos! On the other hand, the Church has one belief system and one leader to guides us worldwide. The idea of Sola Scriptura came along some 1500 years after Christs’ death. I guess we will agree to disagree. Peace Be With You! Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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I wrote that in Acts 17, Paul is teaching to the people of Thessalonica, and he is teaching them and reasoning with them out of the scriptures See verse 2. My argument was that Paul was teaching these people. We find out in verse 2, that he was using scriptures. Now, what was he teaching. That Christ had risen from the dead, and the Jesus was the Christ. See verse 3. That sounds very New Testament to me. Then I quoted verse 11, where it says the more noble than those at Thessalonica, received THE WORD with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. So, what do we know from Acts 17. Paul was teaching from the scriptures (verse 2). What was he preaching, The risen Christ, and that Jesus was the Christ (verse 3). What did the more noble ones do. (verse 11). They received Paul’s WORD, with eagerness, But they checked the scriptures to see if what he told them was true. I quoted Verse 11 from a few different bibles. And TDP’s comments. Lets see. Acts 17: 11 – New International Version Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
That doesn’t imply scripture only…… It doesn’t imply what. Paul was teaching to them, and they checked the scriptures to see what he told them was true. No, TDP you are right. It does not imply. It says, they checked the scriptures daily, to see if what Paul was preaching was true. Doesn’t imply scripture only, Read what the verse say?? They checked the scriptures daily, to see what Paul was preaching was true. Can you read, It says the Scriptures was what they were reading. Doesn’t imply scriptures only. It implies nothing. It says They checked the scriptures daily. What else do you want to read into that. Do you see in your obvious blindness, some word other than scripture. It does not imply scripture only to you, because you don’t want it to. Lets read more of TDP obvious bias. The rest snipped due to your constant repeating of "They searched the Scripture Daily" This does not indicate "Sola Scriptura" it defines the fact that scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. TDP, you bias is evident. Read the piece that you wote. See they searched the bible daily. Then you say it defines the fact that the scripture was read daily to see if there was any truth to what they were told. What is that EDP. What is checking the scriptures to see if what they were told is true. Isn’t that sola scriptura. Let’s repeat his last conclusion. Again, the Bible only therory has no truth. The Bible is truth but so are magisterail teachings and tradition and the fact that the Church came first. Was Paul using magesterial teachings and tradition. The bible uses teaching and tradition interchangerably in many instances. What did the people check to the scriptures. Paul’s word. Hey, that sounds like magisterial teachings and tradition to me. Lets examine, his statement that the CHURCH came first. Acts again, Look at chapter 20, verse 20. Where was Paul teaching in public. From house to house. Isn’t that amazing? There was no church, there were groups of believers and Paul taught house to house. But in Acts 17, Paul taught from scriptures, and the more noble ones, checked what he taught them, by daily reading the scriptures. Isn’t that informative, when compared to TDP’s obvious implying. All pretty simple. When the church leaders teach you, you really should check it to the scriptures. Because there is a way that is right unto God, and a way that is right unto men. One should check the way that seems right unto man, to the word of God. And to you TDP, I would say, please go to the bible to find out what it says. Don’t go there trying to prove something you have already decided. That way you will tend to read more accurately.
Response:
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) until others have responded. Vaya con Dios! jw Go this day with the Lord our God, Deacon we are atoms, in Gods mind we choose our destinies by our choices we will either live free and grow…or die as slaves ITs…our choice is ritual bio-borg’ism worth the price one must pay in order to play…? why not abolish money and find out for free…!? why not break out of ritual’ized, canned and created reality called the monied dream of evil personified, hiding in plain sight as fraternal capitalist priests playing "overlords-of-humanity" with ruthless pavlovian-inspired brainwashed greed, for profit, gain, and growth…acting as parasites on the collective souls of humanity…? Sad, but True. Capitalism is the love of money…and the addiction personified, in denial. Instead, learn how to share for free, without money? Spread the wealth by helping fill pockets of lack…by doing what one chooses to do, or do without…for free, without money limiting choices. utopianow.cjb.net abolishmoney.com ubarter.com hope this helps pass it on d 
You seem to think Paul and such were teaching outside the bible or other words, then since what they did say did become the Bible we have today, it is still only Bible, or "sola scriptura" their teachings are IN the Bible! The traditions they are pointing out were theirs, and in the Bible which we have today. Still ONLY BIBLE, or your "sola scriptura". Our comfort comes from what was writen, and being written at that time in the New Testament, not the traditions of man but the Word of God and Gods traditions, found ONLY IN THE BIBLE. It would seem you are trying to make your traditions, those of Paul and the Bible, then only in the bible is the traditions of God, and ONLY BIBLE is the place we find which are of God and the Apostles as they were then making the New Testament in their life time. 1 Cor 11:2-3 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. Again we find Paul is limiting the teachings only to the Bible and what He was teaching and HIS traditions which He delivered to them, not others centuries later, and traditions that lead to false teachings and are not from the Bible only, which would make them surely correct. Matt 15:3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? In that verse we find the kind of traditions that were not Bible only so ended up as false and transgress the commandments of God. Those that trust in tradition not found in the "sola scriptura" the Bible only, end up in sin and false teachings. as the next shows what happens with people ADD to the Bible and Add to the traditions found in the Bible, it is called "your tradition" and is seen as Hypocritical. Matt 15:6-9 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 "These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’" Col 2:8-10 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. NKJV So if you are honest you would make sure all your teachings were just that "sola scriptura" Bible only, as others lead to destrustion, lies and evil. The truth is found only in Jesus as all the fullness of God is in Him, not the outside of the Christ of the Bible. We are complete in HIM. He Jesus not a pope, not peter, not someone else is the HEAD of ALL principality and power. The truth is found ONLY IN THE BIBLE as that is what the bible is teachings. Then be nice to use English if your going to post in English. Latin if you use Latin. Thank you. Same verses in the Latin Vulate Bible. Would you like to use it to prove your point? I think if you read it in Latin, It still agrees with the Bible ONLY "sola scripura" 8 videte ne quis vos decipiat per philosophiam et inanem fallaciam secundum traditionem hominum secundum elementa mundi et non secundum Christum 9 quia in ipso inhabitat omnis plenitudo divinitatis corporaliter 10 et estis in illo repleti qui est caput omnis principatus et potestatis I so enjoyed post to you. Then 2 Timothy 3 did say it so well in this verse. 16 omnis scriptura divinitus inspirata et utilis ad docendum ad arguendum ad corrigendum ad erudiendum in iustitia 17 ut perfectus sit homo Dei ad omne opus bonum instructus Blessings, 