Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

Ooh, I like that quote attribution.  :)

No apotheosis intended (just in case) I understand what you’re referring to; I just get a little annoyed/amused when I hear Anglicans refer to the conservatives or the continuers as "schismatics".  I mean, consider the origins of the Church of England…! Although I consider myself a good, theologically conservative Anglo-Catholic (though a social liberal), I’m under no illusions about the less-than-honorable beginnings of this communion.

Yeah, there’s a long tradition about defending the sanctity of mariage, "till death do us part" *chop* Andreas

Response:

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details.

I should think Anglicans ought to be careful about throwing words like "schismatic" around…  :) — Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley A foolish son is the calamity of his father : and the contentions of a wife are a continual dropping.  The Holy Bible (The Old Testament):  _The Proverbs_ 19:13

Response:

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details. I should think Anglicans ought to be careful about throwing words like "schismatic" around…  :)

How lucky I’m Lutheran (Or protestant or whatever fits the American palette of denominations)  ;-) And yes, I was talking about schismatic tendencies promoted by these "conservative Anglicans" or whatever fancy name they use. Andreas

Response:

Ooh, I like that quote attribution.  :) And yes, I was talking about schismatic tendencies promoted by these "conservative Anglicans" or whatever fancy name they use.

I understand what you’re referring to; I just get a little annoyed/amused when I hear Anglicans refer to the conservatives or the continuers as "schismatics".  I mean, consider the origins of the Church of England…! Although I consider myself a good, theologically conservative Anglo-Catholic (though a social liberal), I’m under no illusions about the less-than-honorable beginnings of this communion. — Matthew Weber Curatorial Assistant Music Library University of California, Berkeley A foolish son is the calamity of his father : and the contentions of a wife are a continual dropping.  The Holy Bible (The Old Testament):  _The Proverbs_ 19:13

Response:

Another historic step was taken Saturday, February 28th when McLaughlin and Kappinga were joined by Roman Catholic archbishops Tommasi and Castellani in an Evensong service at the church of San Michele (St. Michael) in Lucca, Italy. It was the first time in the history of the archdiocese of Lucca that Anglican and Roman Catholic bishops have prayed together in a public worship service. RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details. Does the ecumenical affairs secretary Walter Kasper in Rome know about it? Heads already rolling in Italy, or is this going to be the official style of Church diplomacy in the Vatican?

I see nothing wrong with the Roman Church supporting orthodox Christians in other denominations. Heaven knows that liberal protestants have been egging on the liberals in the Roman Church for years. It works both ways. Charles Hohenstein

Response:

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details. Praying with other Christians does not per se endorse all their positions. Choosing the renegades of one denomination for a first-time event does.

A Lutheran complaining about schismatics? LOL! Certainly however the recent ECUSA innovations in ordaining an unrepentant sinner Beg your pardon? What you state is your personal and uninformed opinion.

What part of that statement could you possibly regard as other than factual? Charles Hohenstein

Response:

Certainly however the recent ECUSA innovations in ordaining an unrepentant sinner Beg your pardon? What you state is your personal and uninformed opinion. What part of that statement could you possibly regard as other than factual?

Don’t be silly, Charles. You know well that the sinfulness of homosexual relationships is highly contentious in your church as well as in mine. Denying that is denying reality. Now that’s exactly what those conservatives who call gays "unrepentant sinners" do, as if the whole matter was obvious, which it obviously isn’t. Andreas

Response:

I see nothing wrong with the Roman Church supporting orthodox Christians in other denominations. Heaven knows that liberal protestants have been egging on the liberals in the Roman Church for years. It works both ways.

I don’t know the situation in your country well enough to be able to say they didn’t. Mind you, we are not speaking of individuals but of church officials. At least for the part of the world I know I can say I haven’t seen protestant church officials supporting RC "opposition groups" through public acts or public declarations. At grassroot level there is dialogue of course, but that’s something completely different. Andreas

Response:

Florence, Italy-A new alliance between conservative American and African Anglicans was instituted by Scott McLaughlin, archbishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the USA and Maternus Kapinga, bishop of the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania on Ash Wednesday, February 25th in Florence, Italy. Another historic step was taken Saturday, February 28th when McLaughlin and Kappinga were joined by Roman Catholic archbishops Tommasi and Castellani in an Evensong service at the church of San Michele (St. Michael) in Lucca, Italy. It was the first time in the history of the archdiocese of Lucca that Anglican and Roman Catholic bishops have prayed together in a public worship service.

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details. Does the ecumenical affairs secretary Walter Kasper in Rome know about it? Heads already rolling in Italy, or is this going to be the official style of Church diplomacy in the Vatican? Andreas f’up2 a.r.c.e

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: MONDAY March 1, 2004 FOR MORE INFORMATION IN THE USA, CONTACT ARCHBISHOP SCOTT MCLAUGHLIN, 336/870-1797 personally or 336/236-9565 through his office. Conservative Anglicans Unite For Ministry In Italy, Africa And USA Florence, Italy-A new alliance between conservative American and African Anglicans was instituted by Scott McLaughlin, archbishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the USA and Maternus Kapinga, bishop of the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania on Ash Wednesday, February 25th in Florence, Italy. The "Agreement of Intercommunion and Mutual Labor" formally places the two groups in close collaboration.

I would be interested to hear whether any other bishops of the Anglican Communion are in full communion with the "Episcopal Orthodox Church." Charles Hohenstein

Response:

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details.

Praying with other Christians does not per se endorse all their positions. Certainly however the recent ECUSA innovations in ordaining an unrepentant sinner as bishop and publicly condoning his sin does put a damper on RC relations with that church. Those who also take exception to that decision among the Anglicans will find that the Catholic Church is sympathetic.

Response:

RC Church officials publicly support schismatic tendencies in another denomination? Please, more spicy details. Praying with other Christians does not per se endorse all their positions.

Choosing the renegades of one denomination for a first-time event does. Certainly however the recent ECUSA innovations in ordaining an unrepentant sinner

Beg your pardon? What you state is your personal and uninformed opinion. as bishop and publicly condoning his sin does put a damper on RC relations with that church.

That’s another cup of tea. It is not meddling with their internal affairs. Those who also take exception to that decision among the Anglicans will find that the Catholic Church is sympathetic.

Also those who dislike women’s ordinations. Go in peace to serve the Lord (or whatever). Andreas

Response:

Please look for this new "store front" church and no doubt the head will adapt a pretentious title and join the other GRAND HIGH MUCKY MUCKS who all agree on the ST LOUIS protocols but BY GOLLY just cannot seem to accept one person as the new: 1. Arch Bishop 2. Patrriarch 3. Presiding Bishop 4. Or other proto – papal nonsence. "Primaticus Egotist Pompitus Maximus". Hey gang if they all agree on the ST LOUIS protocols why cannot they put their EGOS ASIDE and choice one person as their head. God must we have yet one more schismatic group that all claim to believe the same yet must have their own "Primaticus Egotist Pompitus Maximus". Brian J Dawson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: MONDAY March 1, 2004 FOR MORE INFORMATION IN THE USA, CONTACT ARCHBISHOP SCOTT MCLAUGHLIN, 336/870-1797 personally or 336/236-9565 through his office. Conservative Anglicans Unite For Ministry In Italy, Africa And USA Florence, Italy-A new alliance between conservative American and African Anglicans was instituted by Scott McLaughlin, archbishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the USA and Maternus Kapinga, bishop of the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania on Ash Wednesday, February 25th in Florence, Italy. The "Agreement of Intercommunion and Mutual Labor" formally places the two groups in close collaboration. The first result of the Agreement is the founding of the Episcopal Orthodox Mission in Italy, composed of Italian Anglicans formerly affiliated with the Episcopal Church USA’s Convocation of American Churches in Europe. The two bishops will share Episcopal oversight of the Italians and appointed the Very Revd Claudio Bocca as Vicar General for the Mission. The founding of the Italian mission was celebrated at a solemn Evensong hosted by Claudio Maniago, the Roman Catholic suffragan bishop of the Archdiocese of Florence, at Santa Maria Maggiore church. For its worship services, the Roman Catholic bishops have granted the Episcopal Orthodox Mission in Italy the church of Santa Maria Maggiorre in Florence and the historic church of San Paolo fuore della muro (the church of "St. Paul Outside the Walls"-erected on the site of St. Paul’s burial). The Mission has members in Florence, Rome, Lucca, and San Marino. Another historic step was taken Saturday, February 28th when McLaughlin and Kappinga were joined by Roman Catholic archbishops Tommasi and Castellani in an Evensong service at the church of San Michele (St. Michael) in Lucca, Italy. It was the first time in the history of the archdiocese of Lucca that Anglican and Roman Catholic bishops have prayed together in a public worship service. A second result of the Agreement is the appointment of bishop Kappinga as suffragan (assistant) bishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the United States and the appointment of archbishop McLaughlin as Cathedral Canon Emeritus in the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania-actions which the two bishops were able to take immediately. The Agreement between McLaughlin and Kappinga is thus significant for Anglicans in the United States, since it creates a ministry with official ties to the Anglican Communion while remaining independent of the Episcopal Church USA. The consecration of V. Gene Robinson, an acknowledged homosexual, as a bishop in the Episcopal Church USA last fall provoked the creation of the new alliance forged by the Agreement, giving Episcopalians a recognized alternative to the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA) is a member of the Anglican Communion, composed of about 70 million Christians in 38 provinces around the world. Bishops in the more conservative global south-Africa, Asia, and South America-have officially broken ties with ECUSA due to Robinson’s consecration, which they see as an heretical action contrary to biblical morality. This has caused a crisis in the Anglican Communion, with many Episcopalians in the United States looking to the global south for new leadership. The Episcopal Orthodox Church (EOC) is one of several groups in the United States that have broken away from ECUSA due to doctrinal and ecclesiastical irregularities. Although other groups in the US have developed ties to other African Anglican churches, the alliance between Mclaughlin and Kappinga represents the most conservative expression of Anglican faith and order, since both affirm the importance of biblical moral teaching and traditional catholic liturgical practice while rejecting the ordination of women and homosexuals. #### Further Contact Information: Archbishop McLaughlin returned to the United States on Monday, March 1st, and will be at his home parish in Lexington, NC until Friday, March 5th, when he will travel to Arizona to lead a spiritual Retreat of his clergy at St. Jude’s Anglican Church in Tucson. Use of his personal telephone number, above, is therefore recommended. Bishop Kappinga remains in Italy until Friday March 5th, for further talks with Vatican ecumenical officials. He may be contacted via Vicar General Claudio Bocca in Italy at 39-55-00393357174038. Italy is six hours ahead of US Eastern Standard time.

Response:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: MONDAY March 1, 2004 FOR MORE INFORMATION IN THE USA, CONTACT ARCHBISHOP SCOTT MCLAUGHLIN, 336/870-1797 personally or 336/236-9565 through his office. Conservative Anglicans Unite For Ministry In Italy, Africa And USA Florence, Italy-A new alliance between conservative American and African Anglicans was instituted by Scott McLaughlin, archbishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the USA and Maternus Kapinga, bishop of the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania on Ash Wednesday, February 25th in Florence, Italy. The "Agreement of Intercommunion and Mutual Labor" formally places the two groups in close collaboration. The first result of the Agreement is the founding of the Episcopal Orthodox Mission in Italy, composed of Italian Anglicans formerly affiliated with the Episcopal Church USA’s Convocation of American Churches in Europe. The two bishops will share Episcopal oversight of the Italians and appointed the Very Revd Claudio Bocca as Vicar General for the Mission. The founding of the Italian mission was celebrated at a solemn Evensong hosted by Claudio Maniago, the Roman Catholic suffragan bishop of the Archdiocese of Florence, at Santa Maria Maggiore church. For its worship services, the Roman Catholic bishops have granted the Episcopal Orthodox Mission in Italy the church of Santa Maria Maggiorre in Florence and the historic church of San Paolo fuore della muro (the church of "St. Paul Outside the Walls"-erected on the site of St. Paul’s burial). The Mission has members in Florence, Rome, Lucca, and San Marino. Another historic step was taken Saturday, February 28th when McLaughlin and Kappinga were joined by Roman Catholic archbishops Tommasi and Castellani in an Evensong service at the church of San Michele (St. Michael) in Lucca, Italy. It was the first time in the history of the archdiocese of Lucca that Anglican and Roman Catholic bishops have prayed together in a public worship service. A second result of the Agreement is the appointment of bishop Kappinga as suffragan (assistant) bishop of the Episcopal Orthodox Church in the United States and the appointment of archbishop McLaughlin as Cathedral Canon Emeritus in the Diocese of Ruvuma in the Anglican Church of Tanzania-actions which the two bishops were able to take immediately. The Agreement between McLaughlin and Kappinga is thus significant for Anglicans in the United States, since it creates a ministry with official ties to the Anglican Communion while remaining independent of the Episcopal Church USA. The consecration of V. Gene Robinson, an acknowledged homosexual, as a bishop in the Episcopal Church USA last fall provoked the creation of the new alliance forged by the Agreement, giving Episcopalians a recognized alternative to the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church USA (ECUSA) is a member of the Anglican Communion, composed of about 70 million Christians in 38 provinces around the world. Bishops in the more conservative global south-Africa, Asia, and South America-have officially broken ties with ECUSA due to Robinson’s consecration, which they see as an heretical action contrary to biblical morality. This has caused a crisis in the Anglican Communion, with many Episcopalians in the United States looking to the global south for new leadership. The Episcopal Orthodox Church (EOC) is one of several groups in the United States that have broken away from ECUSA due to doctrinal and ecclesiastical irregularities. Although other groups in the US have developed ties to other African Anglican churches, the alliance between Mclaughlin and Kappinga represents the most conservative expression of Anglican faith and order, since both affirm the importance of biblical moral teaching and traditional catholic liturgical practice while rejecting the ordination of women and homosexuals. #### Further Contact Information: Archbishop McLaughlin returned to the United States on Monday, March 1st, and will be at his home parish in Lexington, NC until Friday, March 5th, when he will travel to Arizona to lead a spiritual Retreat of his clergy at St. Jude’s Anglican Church in Tucson. Use of his personal telephone number, above, is therefore recommended. Bishop Kappinga remains in Italy until Friday March 5th, for further talks with Vatican ecumenical officials. He may be contacted via Vicar General Claudio Bocca in Italy at 39-55-00393357174038. Italy is six hours ahead of US Eastern Standard time.

Response: