Question:
Its not clear if Mark was a witness or not. so beleive he was a boy at that The newest date you have is wrong. It is a bogus date promoted by a renegade biblical scholar whose name is Thiede, IIRC. Second century still earliest NT authorship by all experts. Sorry, no witnesses. —
Thiede is the "expert" who claims a peculiarly early date for the Magdalen Papyrus. It is all a bit odd really – his methodology seems severely flawed and his conclusions based more on personal religious beliefs than on science – he is an ordained minister, I seem to remember
Response:
(snip) The problem with this statement is that it is unlikely that even the author of Mark, which is generally believed to be the earliest of the Gospels, was a direct witness to the events surrounding Jesus, whatever they actually were. tim gueguen 101867
Since John Mark was a convert and companion to St. Peter, that stands to reason, doesn’t it?
Response:
So the answer is no, it doesn’t mention Jesus?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – either of these people were is not known today. — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776. Dead Sea Scrolls. DSD? Isn’t it true that the DSD don’t mention Jesus? I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
The problem with this statement is that it is unlikely that even the author of Mark, which is generally believed to be the earliest of the Gospels, was a direct witness to the events surrounding Jesus, whatever they actually were. tim gueguen 101867
Its not clear if Mark was a witness or not. so beleive he was a boy at that — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem with this statement is that it is unlikely that even the author of Mark, which is generally believed to be the earliest of the Gospels, was a direct witness to the events surrounding Jesus, whatever they actually were. tim gueguen 101867 Its not clear if Mark was a witness or not. so beleive he was a boy at that
The newest date you have is wrong. It is a bogus date promoted by a renegade biblical scholar whose name is Thiede, IIRC. Second century still earliest NT authorship by all experts. Sorry, no witnesses. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Well, Gary Denke, Geologist, your first problem is assuming that each account records one of the languages in which Pontius Pilate wrote the charge. St. John tells us in his Gospel (Chapt. 19) that the accusation against Christ on the _titulus_, a piece of wood, was written in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew. (Actually, by "Hebrew" John probably meant Aramaic.) Latin was the language of the then-dominant Roman Empire. Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean world. Hebrew accommodated the local people who didn’t know Latin or Greek. Your second problem is the question, "What did Pilate write really?" As you can see from each account, the charge is substantially the same: This man has claimed to be the king of the Lews. Interestingly enough, Gary, in the Church of Santa Croce in Rome there’s a relic of the titulus bearing the charge. (Actually, only a piece of the titulus.) What’s even more interesting is that the writing on it agrees exactly with NONE of the Gospel accounts: "This is Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews," if I remember correctly. Moreover, the Greek style of writing is consistent with a form of penmaniship used in the 1st Century — but, not later. And, what is more, the Greek, Latin, and Hebrew are all written from right to left.
Response:
either of these people were is not known today. — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dead Sea Scrolls. DSD? Isn’t it true that the DSD don’t mention Jesus? I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
Dead Sea Scrolls.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DSD? Isn’t it true that the DSD don’t mention Jesus? I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say? Actually, I think that when witnesses agree on the content of the message, but after so many years they forget the exact wording, it only goes to show that the event did happen. If, after so long, memories were perfect, it could indicate a concoction on their part.
The problem with this statement is that it is unlikely that even the author of Mark, which is generally believed to be the earliest of the Gospels, was a direct witness to the events surrounding Jesus, whatever they actually were. tim gueguen 101867
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS
The crucial point is surely that which is common to all four – and that is that the executioner of Jesus – based on the banner which almost certainly was indeed over his head – was PILATE. This casts severe doubt on the story that PILATE washed his hands of the affair having found Jesus to be an "innocent" man. The Gospels sanitise the Roman role to make the faith attractive to an audience of Roman citizens, so recently, as an empire, guilty of the destruction of Judea around 70AD It also casts doubts – whatever the exact wording – that the Jews themselves had any realistic part in his condemnation and execution – any that did would clearly have been Roman appointed puppets and not genuine representatives of the Jewish people of Jerusalem or Judea The bannerpoints to the truth that Jesus was executed for sedition against the Roman Occupation and neither for "blasphemy" (for which the penalty was stoning anyway) nor as some mysterious sacrifice to unknown and unstated powers as the perfect sacrifice that pays the price of sin. That a paganised and antisemitic view progressively crept into Christianity in the First Century is perfectly obvious from the source documents, as is the fact that much of the image we have of Jesus is a liturgical fiction that developed in the decades after his execution that is based predominantly on earlier Judaic writings. And in the Millenia since the image of Jesus developed to the point where the nineteenth century visual image was one of a long haired Swede. And this is the image that American Fundamentalism seems most keen to cling on to
Response:
DSD? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Isn’t it true that the DSD don’t mention Jesus? I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say? Actually, I think that when witnesses agree on the content of the message, but after so many years they forget the exact wording, it only goes to show that the event did happen. If, after so long, memories were perfect, it could indicate a concoction on their part. God bless, Stephen SO, it’s literally the word of god … except where it’s not and it’s infallible, except where man made mistakes….. and each and every statement has the importance of "the word of god" behind it ..except where it’s wrong.
The allowing of mistakes is also of divine importance. It teaches the important lesson on who not to trust even in regards to something important as the bible. Thus a divine message is conveyed through this situation. Translation errors, poor human memory and corruption are all marks of human influence as you had suggested. A human influence that is generally looked down upon from the very pages of the bible. Certainly the latter is a message conveyed from the scriptures so it is indeed true. That’s one hell of a convenient con you guys have going there! I can’t understand why YOU cannot understand why many people do NOT fall for it; but, then again, seeing the fraud you do accept …. maybe it’s not that surprising.
A con to some who are not well versed in the bible. There are thousands of extraordinary phenomenon present within the pages. Such as the crucifixion event being foretold over 1000 years before hand, in the book of Psalms, right down to the Roman soldiers gambling for Christ’s clothing. The only con job going on here is the ones who believe that the bible should be one hundred percent error free in order for them to have the faith in God. But, this is why God allowed this to be delivered in such a manner. That is, to weed out the people who disregard the entire statement of truth because of some corrupted or misinformed human circumstances. It certainly was not meant for all to believe. The bible is a complete book. The beginning finds it compliment in the end. GENESIS 1. Genesis, the book of the beginning. 2. The Earth is created (1.1) 3. Satan’s first rebellion. 4. Sun, moon, and stars for Earth’s government (14-16). 5. Sun to govern the day. (1.16) 6. Darkness called night (1.5) 7. Waters called seas (1.10) 8. A river for Earth’s blessing (2. 10-14) 9. Man in God’s Image. (1. 26) 10. Entrance of sin (3) 11. Curse pronounced (3. 14, 17) 12. Death entered (3.19) 13. Cherubim first mentioned in connection with man (3.24) 14. Man driven out from Eden (3.24) 15. Tree of life guarded (3.24) 16. Sorrow and suffering entered (3. 17) 17. Man’s religion, art, and science, restored for enjoyment, apart from God. (4) 18. Nimrod, a great rebel king, and hidden anti-God, the founder of Babylon (10. 8, 9) 19. A flood from God to destroy an evil generation (6-9) 20. The Bow, the token of God’s covenant with the Earth (9.13) 21. Sodom, and Egypt, the place of corruption and temptation (13, 19) 22. A confederacy against Abraham’s people over thrown (14) 23. Marriage of the first Adam (2 18-23) 24. A bride sought for Abraham’s son (Isaac) and found (24). 25. Two angels acting for God on behalf of his people. (19) 26. A promised seed to posses the gate of his enemies (22. 17) 27. Man’s dominion ceased and Satan’s begun. (3.24) 28. The old serpent causing sin, suffering, and death (3.1) 29. The doom of the old serpent pronounced (3.15) 30. Sun, moon, and stars, associated with Israel (37.9) REVELATION 1. Revelation, the book of the end. 2. The Earth passed away (21.1) 3. Satan’s Final rebellion ( (20.2,7-10) 4. Sun, moon, and stars, connected with Earth’s judgment. (6.13; 8.12; 16.8) 5. No need of the sun. (21. 23) 6. "No night there" (22.5) 7. "No more sea" (21.1) 8. A river for the New Earth (22.1,2) 9. Man headed by one in Satan’s image (13) 10. Development and end of sin (21, 22) 11. "No more curse" (22.3) 12. "No more death" (21.4) 13. Cherubim, finally mentioned in connection with man (4.6) 14. Man restored (22) 15. "Right to the Tree of Life (22.14) 16. No more sorrow (21.4) 17. Man’s religion, luxury, art, and science, in their full glory, judged, and destroyed by God. (18) 18. The Beast, the great rebel, a king, a manifested anti-God, the reviver of Babylon (13-18) 19. A flood from Satan to destroy an elect generation (12) 20. The Bow, betokening God’s remembrance of his covenant with the Earth (4.3; 10.1) 21. Sodom and Egypt again; (spiritually representing Jerusalem) (11.8) 22. A confederacy against Abraham’s seed overthrown (12) 23. Marriage of last Adam. (19) 24. A Bride made ready and brought to Adam’s Son. (19.9) See Matt 1.1 25. Two witnesses acting for God on behalf of his People. (11) 26. The promised seed into possession (11.18) 27. Satan’s dominion ended, and man’s restored (22) 28. The old serpent bound for 1,000 years (20. 1-3) 29. The doom on the old serpent executed (20.10) 30. Sun, moon, and stars, associated again with Israel (12) A historical introduction to the bible! THE MASSORAH. All the oldest and best manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible contain on every page, beside the Text (which is arranged in two or more columns), a varying number of lines of smaller writing, distributed between the upper and lower margins. This smaller writing is called the Massorah Magna or Great Massorah, while that in the side margins and between the columns is called the Massorah Parva or Small Massorah. The small writing in the margins in this particular Manuscript is seen to occupy seven lines in the lower margin, and four lines in the upper; while in the outer margins and between the three columns is the Massorah Para. The word Massorah is from the root masar, to deliver something into the hand of another, so as to commit it to his trust. Hence the name is given to the small writing referred to, because it contains information necessary to those into whose trust the Sacred Text was committed, so that they might transcribe it, and hand it down correctly. The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim (from saphar, to count, or number). Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Nehemiah 8:8 1 (compare Ezra 7:6,11). The men of "the Great Synagogue" completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410-300 B.C. The Sopherim were the authorized revisers of the Sacred Text; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorized custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. The Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places. It does not contain notes or comments as such, but facts and phenomena. It records the number of times the several letters occur in the various books of the Bible; the number of words, and the middle word; the number of verses, and the middle verse; the number of expressions and combinations of words, etc. All this, not from a perverted ingenuity, but for the set purpose of safeguarding the Sacred Text, and preventing the loss or misplacement of a single letter or word. This Massorah is not contained in the margins of any one Manuscript. No Manuscript contains the whole, or even the same part. It is spread over many Manuscripts, and Dr. C.D. Ginsburg has been the first and only scholar who has set himself to collect and collate the whole, copying it from every available Manuscript in the libraries of many countries. He has published it in three large folio volumes, and only a small number of copies has been printed. These are obtainable only by the original subscribers When the Hebrew Text was printed, only the large type in the columns was regarded, and small type of the Massorah was left, unheeded, in the Manuscripts from which the Text was taken. When translators came to the printed Hebrew Text, they were necessarily destitute of the information contained in the Massorah; so that the Revisers as well as the Translators of the Authorised Version carried out their work without any idea of the treasures contained in the Massorah; and therefore, without giving a hint of it to their readers This is the first time an edition of the Authorised Version has been given containing any of these treasures of the Massorah, that affect so seriously the understanding … read more »
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say?
Actually, I think that when witnesses agree on the content of the message, but after so many years they forget the exact wording, it only goes to show that the event did happen. If, after so long, memories were perfect, it could indicate a concoction on their part. God bless, Stephen — — Stephen Korsman www.theotokos.co.za www.theotokos.co.za/adventism IC | XC NI | KA
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say? Actually, I think that when witnesses agree on the content of the message, but after so many years they forget the exact wording, it only goes to show that the event did happen. If, after so long, memories were perfect, it could indicate a concoction on their part. God bless, Stephen
SO, it’s literally the word of god … except where it’s not and it’s infallible, except where man made mistakes….. and each and every statement has the importance of "the word of god" behind it ..except where it’s wrong. That’s one hell of a convenient con you guys have going there! I can’t understand why YOU cannot understand why many people do NOT fall for it; but, then again, seeing the fraud you do accept …. maybe it’s not that surprising.
Response:
So you put all your "faith" in a book that probably wasn’t translated properly, and live by it?? LOL! Thanks, haven’t laughed like that for a while. I have some nice bridges to sell if you are interested 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say? Fatal no…Where does it say the scriptures were translated perfectly?
Response:
Isn’t it true that the DSD don’t mention Jesus?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say?
Fatal no…Where does it say the scriptures were translated perfectly?
Response:
THE INSCRIPTIONS ON THE CROSS. Each of the four Gospels gives a different wording of these inscriptions : – 1. Matt. 27: 37: "This is Jesus, the King of the Jews." 2. Mark 15:26: "The King of the Jews" 3. Luke 23:28: "This is the King of the Jews." 4. John 19:19: "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews." Here again the difficulty is created by assuming that these similar but differing records are identical, without noticing the exact words which are written. It is universally assumed that there was only one, and then follow the efforts to explain the alleged "discrepancies" between the different versions of it. If we note carefully what is actually said all will be clear. I. Mark 15:26 can be dismissed; for he does not say anything about a "title" (Gr. titlos, John 19:19) being put on the cross or anywhere else, which any one had seen. It is a question of the Lord’s "accusation" or "indictment", or the ground or cause of His condemnation as claiming to be "the King of the Jews". II. John 19:19 speaks of a "title" written by Pilate, before it left Pilate’s presence; for no one suggests that Pilate went to the scene of the execution and wrote anything there. In Pilate’s writing the three languages were in this order: (1) Hebrew (2) Greek and (3) Latin (cp. IV. below). And it was read after the cross had been set up. This was one which gave rise to the argument between the Chief Priests and Pilate (John 19:21, 22); and this argument took place before the parting of the garments (vv 23, 24). III. The inscription in Matt. 27:37 was the result of that discussion; for another "title" was brought and was "set up over his head", after they had "parted His garments", and having sat down, they watched Him there (vv. 35, 36). As there could hardly have been two titles at the same time, the former must have been then taken down and the other substituted. We are not told how long the argument lasted or when it ceased, or what was the final result of it. IV. A further result is seen in Luke 23:38; for another was brought much later, close upon "the sixth hour" (v. 44), when the darkness fell. It was written with the languages in a different order: (1) Greek (2) Latin, and (3) Hebrew (v. 38).(But see the texts.) It was put up "over Him" (Gr. ep’ auto, v. 38), "after the revilings of the People" (cp. vv. 35-37, with v. 38); whereas Matthew’s (No. III) was set up before the revilings (cp. Matt. 27:37 with v. 39). The result is that : – 1. Mark’s was only His indictment. 2. John’s was the first written by Pilate himself (or by his order), in (1) Hebrew,(2) Greek, and (3) Latin, and was put on the cross before it left Pilate’s presence. 3. Matthew’s was the second, substituted for the first, in consequence of the arguments which took place, and was set up "over His head" after the garments had been divided, and before the revilings. 4. Luke’s was the third (and last), put up "over Him", after the revilings (Luke 23:35), and was seen just before the darkness of the "sixth hour" (v. 41). This was written in three languages, but in a different order: (1) Greek,(2) Latin, and (3) Hebrew (v. 38). Not in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin as in No. II in John 19:19. Thus, such differences as these are marks of Divine accuracy; and instead of being sources of difficulties, become, when rightly divided, the means of their removal.
Response:
If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible?
YES…….I find alot of the "lost" books are a good read. Most should be added to the bible. some are not even controvesial. Books like the Shepard of Hermes should be put in the bible tomorrow!! It would fit right in! Other books like Secrets of Enoch and the Qumran Scrolls show kenship to Revalations. Anyone who has read the War Scroll will see that the aurthor of Revelations was also an Essene from Qumran (or his "master teacher" was). — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
Response:
Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Which 1 is Greek?
The above. Mark is earliest and so probably most accurate historically. AND it is the shortest description to write (less work to write on the wooden board, plus limited room to write on said board). The latter ADDITIONS is common embellishment. All newers stories add stuff to the older likely the correct one too. Probably Greek and not Hebrew, because only the elite could speak/read Hebrew and the elite were not allied against Rome. The commoners were the ones set against Rome and the ones who Jesus lead, so the writting would most probably (almost certainly) be in Greek. The common Jews spoke/read Greek, not Hebrew, nor Latin. Excellent question BTW!! — "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
Response:
Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
….and what diference does it really make? In XC, Bari Stepanovich IC XC –+– "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." NI KA
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make? For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency.
I suppose to the fundamentalist-literalist mind it might. But since historic Christianity is not of the fundie/blind literalist mindset, it really DOESN’T matter. The revelation is the same. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say?
Only to those who want to believe such a thing in the first place. Perhaps it makes them believe their preconceived notions are actually true and therefore they are comforted. In XC, Bari Stepanovich IC XC –+– "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." NI KA
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS ….and what diference does it really make?
For those who believe the Bible is "God breathed" inerrant, infallible "truth", it shows a shocking lack of consistency. In fact, a fatal lack of consistency wouldn’t you say?
Response:
I’m sure it was basically something along those lines…..that’s the trouble with translations depends are what your definition of the word "is" is. Did those traveling with Paul hear the voice or not acts 9:7 & acts 22:9…..that doesn’t mean the Bible isn’t the word of God it just has gone through a lot of translations just like there are several books missing from the bible 1 Chron 29:29. If in some dig or as part of the dead sea scrolls we find those books should they be added to the bible? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, chapter 27 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS Mark, chapter 15 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke, chapter 23 38: And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS John, chapter 19 19: And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS Which 1 is Greek? Which 1 is Latin? Which 1 is Hebrew? Which 1 is ???????
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