Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what’s called "building a case". Jesus Christ said a lot of things. According to St. John, more than could be contained in all the books in the world. Pulling out snippets and taping them together is slipshod reporting. But just for starters, Jesus Christ also said: Missionizing doesn’t belong on SCJ. Keep it on the Christian groups. I think you should listen to Jesus. Best regards, —Cindy S. What Jesus of Nazareth taught, he learned directly from God.
How nice for you to believe. Keep it where it belongs. Susan
Response:
On second thought, let’s discuss. What Jesus of Nazareth taught, he learned directly from God. What the Jews taught, and teach, they learned from their religious leaders who deny the reality of being taught truth by God.
This is, of course, a provable lie. No, we can’t prove that our Law comes from HaShem, but a) neither can you b) we certainly can prove that our leaders do not deny the reality of being given the truth by Him. & I hope you realize you just shot yourself in the foot. Since you do not allow me to elaborate: you people insiat your religion is presaged in ours. If our religion is, by your assertion, false, then so is yours. The reason why they did and still do reject Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ and Son of God.
Even tho’ this is not a complete sentence, I will refute the idea init. No, we do not "reject"; we simply know that he is not. To "reject" something means to acknowledge it in the first place. The Jews, could not and still cannot understand what Jesus of Nazareth taught.
Jesus taught to flout & the Law without care or regard for what it betokened. Yes, I am proud to say that Jews will never understand this. Now maybe you will understand the folly of cross-posting your arrogant missionizing. Susan
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what’s called "building a case". Jesus Christ said a lot of things. According to St. John, more than could be contained in all the books in the world. Pulling out snippets and taping them together is slipshod reporting. But just for starters, Jesus Christ also said: Missionizing doesn’t belong on SCJ. Keep it on the Christian groups. I think you should listen to Jesus. Best regards, —Cindy S. What Jesus of Nazareth taught, he learned directly from God. What the Jews taught, and teach, they learned from their religious leaders who deny the reality of being taught truth by God. The reason why they did and still do reject Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ and Son of God. The Jews, could not and still cannot understand what Jesus of Nazareth taught. He taught the reality of God; the reality of true salvation by the Living God. He taught the reality of God being Spirit and the reality of man being saved by being transformed by the works of God, in mind and spirit. These principles and concepts religionists cannot comprehend. Consequently, the Jews could not understand who and what true Israel was and is. What it is not, is a physical thing. Israel, is the transformed Jacob, types and kind of mankind in mind and spirit. The promise of God to Abraham was not to the Jews for Abraham was not a Jew. Jesus of Nazareth received the fulfillment of that promise and taught others how they also could receive this same promise. Jesus of Nazareth did not receive this promise from God because he was raised as a "Jew" he received it because he sought and found God; asked and received from God; what God had promised. Only in learning to reject the religion of man and obey God, did he receive the promise. He is the example of the one of mankind being saved from spiritual death, being the "firstborn" from this death. In him was resurrected the Holy Spirit of God that Adam died to, as did all mankind who came after fallen Adam. The Jews cannot understand spirituality for they are carnally minded as all religionists are. They believe the matters of God pertain to the physical body. Jesus of Nazareth taught the truth of the matter addressing the mind of mankind where the spirit is found. The Living God has promised to create in mankind a new mind and spirit by His works. This, is what Jesus of Nazareth taught. This is what his true followers received by following the way Jesus of Nazareth taught. This, is the way in and by which God "saves" mankind from spiritual death, which comes by the seed/word of fallen mankind. Jesus of Nazareth was not a religionist and did not create a religion nor follow religious teachings. He lived in the reality of God, speaking what he saw and heard while in the presence of God, the Father. He emptied himself of all man had taught him concerning God and allowed God to fill him with truth, which is the Living Word of and from God. He was not a Jew. He was transformed by God, from what man created him to be, into the Creation of God in mind and spirit. DW Suiter Son of God
Can’t you get it? We’re not interested. Tilly —
Response:
Excuse me. I was under the assumption that G_d made a promise to the children of Abraham that they were the chosen people. Without qualifications. So to think that the rules change because of Jesus means you believe in a deity who is not trustworthy. imho,what Jesus did was to admit those who follow the Noachide convenant a place within G_d’s community. Once could (and I mean no offense to anyone by this) give Jesus preeminance as the first Reform Jew. Now..as to what Paul did with the concept afterwards,that is a different tale altogether.
Response:
This is what’s called "building a case". Jesus Christ said a lot of things. According to St. John, more than could be contained in all the books in the world. Pulling out snippets and taping them together is slipshod reporting. But just for starters, Jesus Christ also said: Missionizing doesn’t belong on SCJ. Keep it on the Christian groups.
I think you should listen to Jesus. Best regards, —Cindy S.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Jews can have Israel, the true Christians get eternal life. There is no difference, except that Israel is to be a "nation of ministers" in order to spread morality and the worship of God throughout the earth. Israel is the resting place for God’s presence, and the center of his worship. As Jesus taught, "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." ( Matthew 19:17 ) "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ( Matthew 5:19 ) As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother’ ( Mark 10:17-19 ) "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." ( John 4:22 ) Knowledge of God came from the Jews, thus salvation came from them as well. This is God’s purpose for making the covenant with Israel: To bring them to salvation, and cause them to bring others to it, as well. As for Gentiles, the Torah gives the Noahide commandments upon which lies the rudaments of morality. The rest is easily gleaned from the other precepts of the Torah, and from the examples set forth in the Prophets and Writings. No one has an excuse for going astray. :-) Anthony
This is what’s called "building a case". Jesus Christ said a lot of things. According to St. John, more than could be contained in all the books in the world. Pulling out snippets and taping them together is slipshod reporting. But just for starters, Jesus Christ also said: John 14. Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11 Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? BAM
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what’s called "building a case". Jesus Christ said a lot of things. According to St. John, more than could be contained in all the books in the world. Pulling out snippets and taping them together is slipshod reporting. But just for starters, Jesus Christ also said: Missionizing doesn’t belong on SCJ. Keep it on the Christian groups. I think you should listen to Jesus. Best regards, —Cindy S.
What Jesus of Nazareth taught, he learned directly from God. What the Jews taught, and teach, they learned from their religious leaders who deny the reality of being taught truth by God. The reason why they did and still do reject Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ and Son of God. The Jews, could not and still cannot understand what Jesus of Nazareth taught. He taught the reality of God; the reality of true salvation by the Living God. He taught the reality of God being Spirit and the reality of man being saved by being transformed by the works of God, in mind and spirit. These principles and concepts religionists cannot comprehend. Consequently, the Jews could not understand who and what true Israel was and is. What it is not, is a physical thing. Israel, is the transformed Jacob, types and kind of mankind in mind and spirit. The promise of God to Abraham was not to the Jews for Abraham was not a Jew. Jesus of Nazareth received the fulfillment of that promise and taught others how they also could receive this same promise. Jesus of Nazareth did not receive this promise from God because he was raised as a "Jew" he received it because he sought and found God; asked and received from God; what God had promised. Only in learning to reject the religion of man and obey God, did he receive the promise. He is the example of the one of mankind being saved from spiritual death, being the "firstborn" from this death. In him was resurrected the Holy Spirit of God that Adam died to, as did all mankind who came after fallen Adam. The Jews cannot understand spirituality for they are carnally minded as all religionists are. They believe the matters of God pertain to the physical body. Jesus of Nazareth taught the truth of the matter addressing the mind of mankind where the spirit is found. The Living God has promised to create in mankind a new mind and spirit by His works. This, is what Jesus of Nazareth taught. This is what his true followers received by following the way Jesus of Nazareth taught. This, is the way in and by which God "saves" mankind from spiritual death, which comes by the seed/word of fallen mankind. Jesus of Nazareth was not a religionist and did not create a religion nor follow religious teachings. He lived in the reality of God, speaking what he saw and heard while in the presence of God, the Father. He emptied himself of all man had taught him concerning God and allowed God to fill him with truth, which is the Living Word of and from God. He was not a Jew. He was transformed by God, from what man created him to be, into the Creation of God in mind and spirit. DW Suiter Son of God
Response:
I hope you copied Anthony’s posts for future reference Paul ,so you don’t make the same mistakes again.
That’s alright – I’ve saved them Susan
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony Good response however Christians may and do consider themselves enlightened Jews or non-gentiles. It makes little difference when a Christian does not adhere to the Torah, nor to any aspect of its message regarding monotheism. The ultimate deciding factor is not the Christian, but the Torah and its precepts regarding monotheism, idolatry, and God. Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh? No, Judaism recognises no "plural" gods, only God who is YHVH. I believe that you are confused regarding the phrase "Elohim," which is a name of God within the Torah. Many believe that it is plural, and thus represents a plural God. In fact, this is incorrect as the verb used in this case is always in the masculine singular case, never plural when it refers to God. The reason that it is plural most likely has to do with the syntax of Hebrew: concepts which are abstract and of great importance such as this tend to be in the plural form. In the end, it is seen from its grammatical usage that it refers to a singular subject, not plural. To further substantiate this claim, the Shema gives full explanation of this concept: "Shema Yisrael: YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH echad." Which translates roughly, "Hear, Israel: YHVH is our God (our Elohim), YHVH is one." If YHVH is "our Elohim," and is still one, then no room is left open for plurality. Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity? No, Judaism doesn’t accept anything remotely resembling the Trinity. The Trinity states that God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Judaism, God has different names to refer to his separate aspects. YHVH, the Tetragrammaton, is used to denote his sense of mercy; Elohim denotes his sense of strict justice; El Shaddai denotes his aspect of the all-powerful, the one who brings about miracles; and so on. These are all different titles for the same deity, and when the Torah was given, his Eternal Name was also made known to the people: this is the Tetragrammaton. Unlike the Trinity, there is one God and one Name; within the trinity, there are three gods, and three names. Furthermore, the implications of the trinity generally violate the prohibitions within the Torah. For instance, the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor the son of man. Jesus was a man who used the title "son of man," as did one of the Prophets to denote humility. Also, the Torah commands that no one worship the image of anything in the heavens, in the earth, or under the earth. If God would then come in the form of a man, wouldn’t this be a contradiction of his own teachings, which he commanded should *never* be violated nor strayed from? Afterall, if one did not worship God who came as a man, this would be a sin; if one did worship God who came as a man, it would still be a sin as this individual would have diverged from the Torah, which is forbidden. This is not the work of God, but the work of Paul and men, as God is not the author of confusion and inconsistency. There are also inconsistencies with the idea of a trinity within the Gospels, but that would fit best in another thread. Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh? No, as Jesus taught that he was the son of man– the son of Adam– a *man.* Jesus taught that he had a Father in heaven, whereas God is the Father, and none come before him. Jesus taught that he had a God above him, whereas none exist except God. The Torah teaches that there is no one beside God; therefore, Jesus can not be a separate God, nor even a manifestation of God, as the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor a son of man. Jesus also taught that God is the Living God, never dying nor tasting death; however, Jesus did die, whereas God cannot. In philosophical summation, the all-powerful can never be limited; the creator can never be the creation; the perfect can never be the imperfect and flawed; God can and will never be a man, as he has taught against such concepts in the Torah. Since God does not change, and is not the author of confusion, he will not violate his own teachings, which would lead those who have stayed faithful to him astray. Personally as an atheist I believe none of it. Then perhaps one religion shouldn’t be placed above another, if you believe none to begin with. :-) I don’t.
I hope you copied Anthony’s posts for future reference Paul ,so you don’t make the same mistakes again. Tilly —
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh? No, Judaism recognises no "plural" gods, only God who is YHVH. I believe that you are confused regarding the phrase "Elohim," which is a name of God within the Torah. Many believe that it is plural, and thus represents a plural God. In fact, this is incorrect as the verb used in this case is always in the masculine singular case, never plural when it refers to God. The reason that it is plural most likely has to do with the syntax of Hebrew: concepts which are abstract and of great importance such as this tend to be in the plural form. In the end, it is seen from its grammatical usage that it refers to a singular subject, not plural. To further substantiate this claim, the Shema gives full explanation of this concept: "Shema Yisrael: YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH echad." Which translates roughly, "Hear, Israel: YHVH is our God (our Elohim), YHVH is one." If YHVH is "our Elohim," and is still one, then no room is left open for plurality. Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity? No, Judaism doesn’t accept anything remotely resembling the Trinity. The Trinity states that God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Judaism, God has different names to refer to his separate aspects. YHVH, the Tetragrammaton, is used to denote his sense of mercy; Elohim denotes his sense of strict justice; El Shaddai denotes his aspect of the all-powerful, the one who brings about miracles; and so on. These are all different titles for the same deity, and when the Torah was given, his Eternal Name was also made known to the people: this is the Tetragrammaton. Unlike the Trinity, there is one God and one Name; within the trinity, there are three gods, and three names. Furthermore, the implications of the trinity generally violate the prohibitions within the Torah. For instance, the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor the son of man. Jesus was a man who used the title "son of man," as did one of the Prophets to denote humility. Also, the Torah commands that no one worship the image of anything in the heavens, in the earth, or under the earth. If God would then come in the form of a man, wouldn’t this be a contradiction of his own teachings, which he commanded should *never* be violated nor strayed from? Afterall, if one did not worship God who came as a man, this would be a sin; if one did worship God who came as a man, it would still be a sin as this individual would have diverged from the Torah, which is forbidden. This is not the work of God, but the work of Paul and men, as God is not the author of confusion and inconsistency. There are also inconsistencies with the idea of a trinity within the Gospels, but that would fit best in another thread. Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh? No, as Jesus taught that he was the son of man– the son of Adam– a *man.* Jesus taught that he had a Father in heaven, whereas God is the Father, and none come before him. Jesus taught that he had a God above him, whereas none exist except God. The Torah teaches that there is no one beside God; therefore, Jesus can not be a separate God, nor even a manifestation of God, as the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor a son of man. Jesus also taught that God is the Living God, never dying nor tasting death; however, Jesus did die, whereas God cannot. In philosophical summation, the all-powerful can never be limited; the creator can never be the creation; the perfect can never be the imperfect and flawed; God can and will never be a man, as he has taught against such concepts in the Torah. Since God does not change, and is not the author of confusion, he will not violate his own teachings, which would lead those who have stayed faithful to him astray. Personally as an atheist I believe none of it. Then perhaps one religion shouldn’t be placed above another, if you believe none to begin with. :-) Anthony Yasher koach, Anthony! Best regards, —Cindy S.
Wonderful stuff Anthony! Tilly —
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony
Thankyou for yout truly excellent posts. Tilly —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony Good response however Christians may and do consider themselves enlightened Jews or non-gentiles. It makes little difference when a Christian does not adhere to the Torah, nor to any aspect of its message regarding monotheism. The ultimate deciding factor is not the Christian, but the Torah and its precepts regarding monotheism, idolatry, and God. Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh? No, Judaism recognises no "plural" gods, only God who is YHVH. I believe that you are confused regarding the phrase "Elohim," which is a name of God within the Torah. Many believe that it is plural, and thus represents a plural God. In fact, this is incorrect as the verb used in this case is always in the masculine singular case, never plural when it refers to God. The reason that it is plural most likely has to do with the syntax of Hebrew: concepts which are abstract and of great importance such as this tend to be in the plural form. In the end, it is seen from its grammatical usage that it refers to a singular subject, not plural. To further substantiate this claim, the Shema gives full explanation of this concept: "Shema Yisrael: YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH echad." Which translates roughly, "Hear, Israel: YHVH is our God (our Elohim), YHVH is one." If YHVH is "our Elohim," and is still one, then no room is left open for plurality. Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity? No, Judaism doesn’t accept anything remotely resembling the Trinity. The Trinity states that God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Judaism, God has different names to refer to his separate aspects. YHVH, the Tetragrammaton, is used to denote his sense of mercy; Elohim denotes his sense of strict justice; El Shaddai denotes his aspect of the all-powerful, the one who brings about miracles; and so on. These are all different titles for the same deity, and when the Torah was given, his Eternal Name was also made known to the people: this is the Tetragrammaton. Unlike the Trinity, there is one God and one Name; within the trinity, there are three gods, and three names. Furthermore, the implications of the trinity generally violate the prohibitions within the Torah. For instance, the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor the son of man. Jesus was a man who used the title "son of man," as did one of the Prophets to denote humility. Also, the Torah commands that no one worship the image of anything in the heavens, in the earth, or under the earth. If God would then come in the form of a man, wouldn’t this be a contradiction of his own teachings, which he commanded should *never* be violated nor strayed from? Afterall, if one did not worship God who came as a man, this would be a sin; if one did worship God who came as a man, it would still be a sin as this individual would have diverged from the Torah, which is forbidden. This is not the work of God, but the work of Paul and men, as God is not the author of confusion and inconsistency. There are also inconsistencies with the idea of a trinity within the Gospels, but that would fit best in another thread. Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh? No, as Jesus taught that he was the son of man– the son of Adam– a *man.* Jesus taught that he had a Father in heaven, whereas God is the Father, and none come before him. Jesus taught that he had a God above him, whereas none exist except God. The Torah teaches that there is no one beside God; therefore, Jesus can not be a separate God, nor even a manifestation of God, as the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor a son of man. Jesus also taught that God is the Living God, never dying nor tasting death; however, Jesus did die, whereas God cannot. In philosophical summation, the all-powerful can never be limited; the creator can never be the creation; the perfect can never be the imperfect and flawed; God can and will never be a man, as he has taught against such concepts in the Torah. Since God does not change, and is not the author of confusion, he will not violate his own teachings, which would lead those who have stayed faithful to him astray. Personally as an atheist I believe none of it. Then perhaps one religion shouldn’t be placed above another, if you believe none to begin with. :-)
I don’t.
Response:
Yasher koach, Anthony! Best regards, —Cindy S.
Toda, gam lakh. :-) Anthony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
The Jews can have Israel, the true Christians get eternal life.
There is no difference, except that Israel is to be a "nation of ministers" in order to spread morality and the worship of God throughout the earth. Israel is the resting place for God’s presence, and the center of his worship. As Jesus taught, "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." ( Matthew 19:17 ) "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ( Matthew 5:19 ) As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother’ ( Mark 10:17-19 ) "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." ( John 4:22 ) Knowledge of God came from the Jews, thus salvation came from them as well. This is God’s purpose for making the covenant with Israel: To bring them to salvation, and cause them to bring others to it, as well. As for Gentiles, the Torah gives the Noahide commandments upon which lies the rudaments of morality. The rest is easily gleaned from the other precepts of the Torah, and from the examples set forth in the Prophets and Writings. No one has an excuse for going astray. :-) Anthony
Response:
I am top-posting because I have only two brief comments: – fabulous post – left intact because it is worth repeating. Susan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh? No, Judaism recognises no "plural" gods, only God who is YHVH. I believe that you are confused regarding the phrase "Elohim," which is a name of God within the Torah. Many believe that it is plural, and thus represents a plural God. In fact, this is incorrect as the verb used in this case is always in the masculine singular case, never plural when it refers to God. The reason that it is plural most likely has to do with the syntax of Hebrew: concepts which are abstract and of great importance such as this tend to be in the plural form. In the end, it is seen from its grammatical usage that it refers to a singular subject, not plural. To further substantiate this claim, the Shema gives full explanation of this concept: "Shema Yisrael: YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH echad." Which translates roughly, "Hear, Israel: YHVH is our God (our Elohim), YHVH is one." If YHVH is "our Elohim," and is still one, then no room is left open for plurality. Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity? No, Judaism doesn’t accept anything remotely resembling the Trinity. The Trinity states that God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Judaism, God has different names to refer to his separate aspects. YHVH, the Tetragrammaton, is used to denote his sense of mercy; Elohim denotes his sense of strict justice; El Shaddai denotes his aspect of the all-powerful, the one who brings about miracles; and so on. These are all different titles for the same deity, and when the Torah was given, his Eternal Name was also made known to the people: this is the Tetragrammaton. Unlike the Trinity, there is one God and one Name; within the trinity, there are three gods, and three names. Furthermore, the implications of the trinity generally violate the prohibitions within the Torah. For instance, the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor the son of man. Jesus was a man who used the title "son of man," as did one of the Prophets to denote humility. Also, the Torah commands that no one worship the image of anything in the heavens, in the earth, or under the earth. If God would then come in the form of a man, wouldn’t this be a contradiction of his own teachings, which he commanded should *never* be violated nor strayed from? Afterall, if one did not worship God who came as a man, this would be a sin; if one did worship God who came as a man, it would still be a sin as this individual would have diverged from the Torah, which is forbidden. This is not the work of God, but the work of Paul and men, as God is not the author of confusion and inconsistency. There are also inconsistencies with the idea of a trinity within the Gospels, but that would fit best in another thread. Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh? No, as Jesus taught that he was the son of man– the son of Adam– a *man.* Jesus taught that he had a Father in heaven, whereas God is the Father, and none come before him. Jesus taught that he had a God above him, whereas none exist except God. The Torah teaches that there is no one beside God; therefore, Jesus can not be a separate God, nor even a manifestation of God, as the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor a son of man. Jesus also taught that God is the Living God, never dying nor tasting death; however, Jesus did die, whereas God cannot. In philosophical summation, the all-powerful can never be limited; the creator can never be the creation; the perfect can never be the imperfect and flawed; God can and will never be a man, as he has taught against such concepts in the Torah. Since God does not change, and is not the author of confusion, he will not violate his own teachings, which would lead those who have stayed faithful to him astray. Personally as an atheist I believe none of it. Then perhaps one religion shouldn’t be placed above another, if you believe none to begin with. :-) Anthony
Yasher koach, Anthony! Best regards, —Cindy S.
Response:
The Jews can have Israel, the true Christians get eternal life. — Dore "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be pleased" Ps 2:12 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (KJV) http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony Good response however Christians may and do consider themselves enlightened Jews or non-gentiles.
It makes little difference when a Christian does not adhere to the Torah, nor to any aspect of its message regarding monotheism. The ultimate deciding factor is not the Christian, but the Torah and its precepts regarding monotheism, idolatry, and God. Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh?
No, Judaism recognises no "plural" gods, only God who is YHVH. I believe that you are confused regarding the phrase "Elohim," which is a name of God within the Torah. Many believe that it is plural, and thus represents a plural God. In fact, this is incorrect as the verb used in this case is always in the masculine singular case, never plural when it refers to God. The reason that it is plural most likely has to do with the syntax of Hebrew: concepts which are abstract and of great importance such as this tend to be in the plural form. In the end, it is seen from its grammatical usage that it refers to a singular subject, not plural. To further substantiate this claim, the Shema gives full explanation of this concept: "Shema Yisrael: YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH echad." Which translates roughly, "Hear, Israel: YHVH is our God (our Elohim), YHVH is one." If YHVH is "our Elohim," and is still one, then no room is left open for plurality. Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity?
No, Judaism doesn’t accept anything remotely resembling the Trinity. The Trinity states that God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Within Judaism, God has different names to refer to his separate aspects. YHVH, the Tetragrammaton, is used to denote his sense of mercy; Elohim denotes his sense of strict justice; El Shaddai denotes his aspect of the all-powerful, the one who brings about miracles; and so on. These are all different titles for the same deity, and when the Torah was given, his Eternal Name was also made known to the people: this is the Tetragrammaton. Unlike the Trinity, there is one God and one Name; within the trinity, there are three gods, and three names. Furthermore, the implications of the trinity generally violate the prohibitions within the Torah. For instance, the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor the son of man. Jesus was a man who used the title "son of man," as did one of the Prophets to denote humility. Also, the Torah commands that no one worship the image of anything in the heavens, in the earth, or under the earth. If God would then come in the form of a man, wouldn’t this be a contradiction of his own teachings, which he commanded should *never* be violated nor strayed from? Afterall, if one did not worship God who came as a man, this would be a sin; if one did worship God who came as a man, it would still be a sin as this individual would have diverged from the Torah, which is forbidden. This is not the work of God, but the work of Paul and men, as God is not the author of confusion and inconsistency. There are also inconsistencies with the idea of a trinity within the Gospels, but that would fit best in another thread. Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh?
No, as Jesus taught that he was the son of man– the son of Adam– a *man.* Jesus taught that he had a Father in heaven, whereas God is the Father, and none come before him. Jesus taught that he had a God above him, whereas none exist except God. The Torah teaches that there is no one beside God; therefore, Jesus can not be a separate God, nor even a manifestation of God, as the Torah teaches that God is not a man, nor a son of man. Jesus also taught that God is the Living God, never dying nor tasting death; however, Jesus did die, whereas God cannot. In philosophical summation, the all-powerful can never be limited; the creator can never be the creation; the perfect can never be the imperfect and flawed; God can and will never be a man, as he has taught against such concepts in the Torah. Since God does not change, and is not the author of confusion, he will not violate his own teachings, which would lead those who have stayed faithful to him astray. Personally as an atheist I believe none of it.
Then perhaps one religion shouldn’t be placed above another, if you believe none to begin with. :-) Anthony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony
Good response however Christians may and do consider themselves enlightened Jews or non-gentiles. Does not Judaism recognise pluralist gods, but demands only worship of Yahweh? Does not Judaism accept that god comes in many forms, hence the Trinity theory of Christianity? Is not Jesus just another manifestation of Yahweh? Personally as an atheist I believe none of it.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies.
[snippage only for brevity of an extremely interesting and well-written post] Anthony: This was a beautiful and informative post. A number of months ago, there was a poster named "Anthony" who came to SCJ and SCI for the stated purpose of gaining a more balanced view of the situation in the Middle East. Initially, he was asking questions about Judaism and Israel and then followed up with a series of vicious anti-semitic, anti-Israel posts. Are you the same poster who has now changed his position, or are you a different Anthony entirely? (This post is infinitely more sophisticated than anything I ever saw from the other "Anthony," so I suspect you are not the same person, but I thought I would ask). Best regards, —-Cindy S.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects? Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. [snippage only for brevity of an extremely interesting and well-written post] Anthony: This was a beautiful and informative post. A number of months ago, there was a poster named "Anthony" who came to SCJ and SCI for the stated purpose of gaining a more balanced view of the situation in the Middle East. Initially, he was asking questions about Judaism and Israel and then followed up with a series of vicious anti-semitic, anti-Israel posts. Are you the same poster who has now changed his position, or are you a different Anthony entirely? (This post is infinitely more sophisticated than anything I ever saw from the other "Anthony," so I suspect you are not the same person, but I thought I would ask). Best regards, —-Cindy S.
Hello Cindy, I am a different Anthony entirely. As you will see if my posts are reviewed on Goggle, I have always been pro-Israel and pro-Judaism, albeit my writing style has dramatically improved over time due to the many number of debates and postings. Thank you for your compliments regarding this post; I’m glad there are others who are of like mind actively involved in Usenet. Anthony P.S., perhaps I should make my Usenet handle a bit more original, given that with such a generic name, no telling how many are confusing me with others such as you have mentioned. *LOL* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Most of these Jews who "claim" the right to Nazi state of Israel, would never live there!
If your lies are true, then why are there numerous Jewish students moving to Israel to study even amid the Palestinian terrorist attacks and suicide bombings? Why do so many live in Israel now, even in religious communities that are constantly targeted? One terrorist attack in America, and everyone has "psychological trauma" and multitudes appear on talkshows; in Israel, nearly every week brings another terrorist attack, and there are still those who would move there for study and worship. In any case, how are the Israelis "Nazis" for defending their civilians against terrorist attacks each and every day, when the Palestinians can murder as many civilians as they desire and be called "freedom fighters," when they are the very reason that Israel must resort to self defense in the first place? Anyone except the most coarse individuals could easily solve this problem: If Israel is so horrible for the Palestinians, then why don’t they move to another country which they find more suitable? If they are unable, why don’t they become Israeli citizens and live in Israel without trying to kill as many civilians as they see fit? Furthermore, the attacks against Israeli civilians is the prime cause for Israel to take defensive measures. In case you have a hard time understanding, I’ll repeat: Without the suicide attacks and murderous ways of the Palestinian terrorists, there would be no need for Israel to defend itself against them. Stop being a puppet of the state and propaganda, and actually comprehend that the "freedom fighters," or murderers as I call them, is the reason why the Palestinian civilians must live under hardship. Without them, there would be no problem. Of course, with people like you that love to expound hatred and ignorance, there would most likely be another problem that Israel must take care of. Israel has had these types of problems since the giving of the Torah. Anthony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects?
Response:
Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right?
Most of these Jews who "claim" the right to Nazi state of Israel, would never live there!
Response:
Many Jews claim a god given right to Israel. Can Christians claim the same right? Are not Christians just another group of Jewish sects and sub sects?
Good question. The group which Jesus began was merely a Messianic Jewish sect. They were Torah observant and did not resemble the Pagans and polytheists which lived around them. However, after Paul was finished, he had taken a monotheistic religion which worshipped God (whose name is ????) and changed it into a religion which is heavily reliant upon the Greek mystery cults and their polytheistic philosophies. Study Mithras and his following, and you’ll see great similarities. After Paul was finished with his heresies, God’s name was no longer one, as the Tanakh (‘Old Testament,’ as the Christians call it) teaches and commands, but three; No longer was God the sole focus of worship, but Jesus, a human sacrifice so that these "Jews" could put away the Torah and still try to claim piety! It is a simple question, really… should one place his or her faith in the idol of the serpent, or in God? Afterall, Paul teaches that one must place one’s faith in Jesus, whereas Jesus taught that he was as the serpent in the wilderness, whose purpose it is to direct the nation’s attention to God once more. As Jesus is as the serpent in the wilderness, should one place one’s faith in an idol, or in what the idol directs the attention to, which is God? These and many more teachings are the downfall of Paul’s heretical sect. In short, Christians are not a subdivision of Jews. It may have begun that way, but now Christianity no longer worships the God YHVH, as they have made his name three, his being three, and have made him a man, whereas the Torah teaches that his name is One, he is One, and he is not a man, nor a son of man. How, then, could the same God be worshipped? Christians have gotten rid of the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision: they have tried to make a mockery of the covenant with Abraham, whereas God commanded that it should be a sign throughout the generations of the closeness with him; how, then, may Christians be a subdivision or even a division of Judaism, when they turn their back on all the Torah teaches in favor of Greek mystery traditions? So, in response to your question, no: Christians can not claim Israel’s right. To claim Israel’s right, to even become worthy of living in the land of Israel, the Torah must be observed in piety; it is made clear within its writings that God will bring curses upon those who forsake it, yet will bring blessings upon those who observe it. (Perhaps the polytheistic additions and idolatry to Christianity are the curses by which many hatefilled individuals go astray.) How can you constantly bash Jews with your bigotry and prejudice, then turn around and act as though you may claim Israel’s right? To claim Israel’s right, you must be worthy of its inheritance; to be worthy, you must be in God’s covenant through the Torah, not Paul’s covenant to Mithras. Of course, you could just step back and say, ‘Unto us be our religion and its gains, and unto the Jews be their religion and gains,’ rather than, ‘Unto us be our religion and gains, as well as all the Jews have; however, I will condemn the Jews with the utmost vehemence,’ which is not only selfish, but perhaps indicative of jealousy regarding what God has given the Jews, and how he causes them to remain even after these many generations of fierce persecutions. Anthony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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