Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean. JP Dean, you seem to say that truth is an unjustified stumbling block. Is that correct? If you are a Catholic, I think you should refresh your understanding. If you are interested in a biblical assessment of Mary’s role in salvation history I suggest you read "Eve, Mary, and the Incarnation" at the web site below my name. If you disagree with that writing you can assign responsibility to me and bring your criticism to me on this forum for open discussion for all to assess. JP
Jerry, You seem to be missing my point. I apologize for not first visiting your web site, but I don’t expect to find anything there with which I disagee or which will expand my knowldege of the biblical assessment of Mary’s role in salvation. Truth can be a stumbling block. The issue is which elements of the truth are necessary for one to be a Christian. Acceptance of The Church’s teachings about Mary (with which, as I said, I agree) are not necessary for one to call oneself a Christian and already stand in the way of Christian unity. Adding to those doctrines can only serve to drive yet another wedge between Catholic Christians and non-Catholic Christians. Only concepts about Christ should separate religions and denominations, not concepts about Mary. As important a role as Mary plays in salvation, she saves no one. Mary can lead one to the salvation found in Christ, but one can come to the salvation of Christ without going through Mary. I apologize. I failed to append my signature containing the site. … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53
+amdg+ –dean.
Response:
First the Council said that she was’nt.Recently the Holy See said she was’nt . Also Catholics in general are’nt pushing this title,Marian zealots are. The title smacks of Heresy! and is dificult to explain.Also if there is one thing Our Lady does’nt need is another Title. Regards John
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean. JP Dean, you seem to say that truth is an unjustified stumbling block. Is that correct? If you are a Catholic, I think you should refresh your understanding. If you are interested in a biblical assessment of Mary’s role in salvation history I suggest you read "Eve, Mary, and the Incarnation" at the web site below my name. If you disagree with that writing you can assign responsibility to me and bring your criticism to me on this forum for open discussion for all to assess.
JP I apologize. I failed to append my signature containing the site. … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53
Response:
JP Paul, the following is not in the Catechism of The Catholic Church: MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST
If you find the above in the Catechism of The Catholic Church I will profit from your citation of the location. … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I read and study the Catechism. I don’t subscribe to dishonesty. I subscribe to the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth. Paul JP Why do you subscribe to dishonesty, Paul? Were you simply misled or did you check the Catechism? … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53 These are all true. Thanks for bringing us the real doctrine. Paul Once again, when was the last time you read YOUR CATCECISM? This has ALREADY HAPPENED….. (TAKEN FROM THE OFFICAL ROMAN CATCHECISM) ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854… 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." … 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her … 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.). 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean.
Response:
I read and study the Catechism. I don’t subscribe to dishonesty. I subscribe to the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JP Why do you subscribe to dishonesty, Paul? Were you simply misled or did you check the Catechism? … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53 These are all true. Thanks for bringing us the real doctrine. Paul Once again, when was the last time you read YOUR CATCECISM? This has ALREADY HAPPENED….. (TAKEN FROM THE OFFICAL ROMAN CATCHECISM) ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854… 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." … 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her … 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.). 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean.
Response:
JP Why do you subscribe to dishonesty, Paul? Were you simply misled or did you check the Catechism? … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -These are all true. Thanks for bringing us the real doctrine. Paul Once again, when was the last time you read YOUR CATCECISM? This has ALREADY HAPPENED….. (TAKEN FROM THE OFFICAL ROMAN CATCHECISM) ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854… 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." … 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her … 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.). 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone else. +amdg+ –dean.
JP Dean, you seem to say that truth is an unjustified stumbling block. Is that correct? If you are a Catholic, I think you should refresh your understanding. If you are interested in a biblical assessment of Mary’s role in salvation history I suggest you read "Eve, Mary, and the Incarnation" at the web site below my name. If you disagree with that writing you can assign responsibility to me and bring your criticism to me on this forum for open discussion for all to assess.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again, when was the last time you read YOUR CATCECISM? This has ALREADY HAPPENED….. (TAKEN FROM THE OFFICAL ROMAN CATCHECISM) ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST 491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854… 494 … As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." … 495 … the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. 964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"; it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion. … enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her … 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son …" The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection … "In giving birth you kept your virginity… You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death" (Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.). 968 "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the Saviour’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace." 969 "… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Although I understand and don’t disagree with The Church’s philosophy and theology behind the whole co-mediatrix thing, I pray that The Church doesn’t make these ideas official dogma. Why should teachings on Mary be what holds Christian unity at bay? Beliefs about Christ should be the only beliefs that separate the various denominations from one another. Belief in the teachings concerning Mary is not necessary for salvation. The Church is about salvation and should concern itself only with issues related to the salvation of souls. The Eucharist, the nature of Christ and the resurrection are the fundamentals of our faith. The Church is putting up a stumbling block to Christian unity if she continues to follow the path that leads to non-Catholic Christians being left with the impression that we place her on equal footing with the Savior. The only stumbling block should be the life, death and resurrection of Christ and all it implies. Then again, I’m a bit of a romantic. I believe in realities that should be but never will be because of . . . well, just about everyone el +amdg+ –dean.
JP Where did you find: "MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO-REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST"???? This borders on dishonesty when you insert this among honest quotations! … Blessings, Jerry For theological content go to http://www.flash.net/~jerry53
Response:
I am sorry that you do NOT believe the bible and what it says… 1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" Notice MARY is not mentioned ANYWHERE? As a matter of fact, you won’t find the teachings of Rome and MARY in the bible ANYWHERE….it is PAGANISTIC….. Then next thing you need to find out is how to be BORN-AGAIN… Http://www.vvm.com/~bullridr/salvation.htm
Response:
If there is "one mediator" as you understand it, why do you ask your friends or pastor, etc to pray for you? Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sorry that you do NOT believe the bible and what it says… 1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" Notice MARY is not mentioned ANYWHERE? As a matter of fact, you won’t find the teachings of Rome and MARY in the bible ANYWHERE….it is PAGANISTIC….. Then next thing you need to find out is how to be BORN-AGAIN… Http://www.vvm.com/~bullridr/salvation.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again, when was the last time you read YOUR CATCECISM? This has ALREADY HAPPENED….. (TAKEN FROM THE OFFICAL ROMAN CATCHECISM) Yep, have mine open right now in my lap. ROSARY AND PRAYERS TO MARY Actually, that title is NOT in the Catechism I have, which are you reading…. I have the most recent. The title I have is II. Devotion to the Blessed Virgin 971 "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honours "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. …" The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. Yep, you curiously snipped a whole wad in the middle, but those words are in there.
Epitome of the WHOLE GOSPEL? What a bunch of GARBAGE….
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