Catholics & Catholicism

Question:

I’ve even found web pages saying that the the Norse sagas *describe* how the Amanita was used to induce berserkery and that it was an important trade commodity during the viking age. Rubbish.

Be careful of the pro-drug lobby. They’re often slightly less fanatical than Judeo-Christians. I was hoping some could help enlighten us on this question, but none have replied. United Metal Front www.anus.com/metal/ www.metalhaus.com bbs.anus.com

Response:

I’ve even found web pages saying that the the Norse sagas *describe* how the Amanita was used to induce berserkery and that it was an important trade commodity during the viking age. Rubbish. Be careful of the pro-drug lobby. They’re often slightly less fanatical than Judeo-Christians. I was hoping some could help enlighten us on this question, but none have replied.

The last few days I’ve come across a number of pro-drug places with Amanita info, but they actually don’t touch the berserkery/viking issue (probably because "these drugs may make you randomly kill and destroy anything that comes within your reach" statements will catch some unwanted attention ; they are more into trying to emphasize how common and "natural" drug use used to be, with those Siberian tribes as leading example. I haven’t seem them distort the source info (what was reported by the scientific/exploration expeditions), but the conclusions are quite far out sometimes. Of what I wrote above, the first is an extrapoltion of the commonly held "truth" I’ve been attacking in this thread – if "everyone" agrees that the vikings took amanita, surely it must be because it’s actually written somewhere? – while the second is a mix-up with Siberia again – it seems like Amanita muscaria actually was traded there until the Russian authorities had got a tighter grip of the area and banished this trade. — Thomas Wolmer

Response:

A few thousand years earlier, yes… Bet they had ‘berzerkrs’ back then, too!

Possibly, but according to "something I read somewhere on the net", reindeer weren’t kept as herd animals until relatively late (after supposed birth of guy who ended up on a stick), before that they were just hunted, which would mean that the urine trick seems less likely. I’m on shakier than usual ground here though. Haha, who cares about them, maybe your local Simon Wiesenthal center can help point you in the right direction to truthful historians… !!?? What is this? Haha, I didn’t mean to imply you were a Jew or anything, sorry about that

OK I just thought I’d use it as a meaningful pointer as to what ‘truth’ and ‘valid references’ were.

Well, in this case I was attacking what has become a myth in itself: that it’s (today) a widely supported theory. I’ve even found web pages saying that the the Norse sagas *describe* how the Amanita was used to induce berserkery and that it was an important trade commodity during the viking age. Rubbish. The website speaks of "many scandinavian historians" who believe in amanita/berserker theory. These "many historians" don’t exist. .: This website is wrong. They don’t exist?  I will admit I don’t know them at present, but neither have I looked especially hard, outside the ‘point and click’ world of the Internet.. I do not doubt a sizeable portion of ‘historical pharmacologists’ far more knowledgeable and experienced than myself would share a sentiment to mine.

I admit that neither have I done any searches outside the net for pharmacological info, but here I found only one piece with "scolarly ambition" (in Swedish) which mentions the berserker connection: http://www.umu.se/pharm-neuro/pharmacology/utbildning/10-p/projektvt-… And it references some other thing (in Swedish): H. Persson et al. Giftsvampar och svampgifter, Brevskolan (30-33). 1990 Which is on the sceptical side of the debate. I dunno what this R. Gordon Wasson who wrote "Soma: Divine Mushroom of Immortality" classifies as, but he’s sceptical too. As for historians, apart from the