Question:
The church in Russia is being harassed by the govt. at the prodding of the Russian Orthodox church. Catholics in America must stand up for our Co-Relgionists in Russia.Do what ever you can to support the Catholic church in Russia. John
Response:
The church in Russia is being harassed by the govt. at the prodding of the Russian Orthodox church. Catholics in America must stand up for our Co-Relgionists in Russia.Do what ever you can to support the Catholic church in Russia. John
There have been at least two papal crusades against Russia and this latest EU(60% RC) sortie against Yugoslavia has been another…you actually think Russians don’t know what the story really is? — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
JMJ The church in Russia is being harassed by the govt. at the prodding of the Russian Orthodox church. Catholics in America must stand up for our Co-Relgionists in Russia.Do what ever you can to support the Catholic church in Russia. John Remember we live in a Protestant dominated country even though there are some 60 million of us, so don’t hold you breath. Jim Carew sfo
"Protestant dominated?" What a curious notion. Congress is one-third RC* and U.S. policy since WWII has been strictly in support of Rome’s global interests shaped by Rome’s agents in the CIA and Washington. *General rule of thumb in publically traded stock: five percent ownership, with remainder fragmented, sufficient for control. — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
JMJ The church in Russia is being harassed by the govt. at the prodding of the Russian Orthodox church. Catholics in America must stand up for our Co-Relgionists in Russia.Do what ever you can to support the Catholic church in Russia. John
Remember we live in a Protestant dominated country even though there are some 60 million of us, so don’t hold you breath. Jim Carew sfo
Response:
Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Sorry, american. The Latin inscription on the Great Seal means, "A new order for the ages." Pax vobiscum–Glenn
Response:
Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order Sorry, american. The Latin inscription on the Great Seal means, "A new order for the ages." Pax vobiscum–Glenn
Sorry Mr. Wright, Get a copy of a Latin-English dictionary more than 200 years old, or speak to an intelligent Latinist. Additionally you might read the writings of the Founders of the U.S.(Jefferson, Adams, Paine) to discover that you are understandably mistaken. — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
Sorry Mr. Wright, Get a copy of a Latin-English dictionary more than 200 years old, or speak to an intelligent Latinist. Additionally you might read the writings of the Founders of the U.S.(Jefferson, Adams, Paine) to discover that you are understandably mistaken. — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
I am an intelligent Latinist. I have a degree in it and I teach it. "The New Secular Order" would be "Novus Ordo Secularis." The word "seclorum" is the genitive plural of "seclum" (alternatively, seculum or saeculum) which means "age, generation, century." It is an objective genitive usage, and should be translated "for the ages." I also teach American literature and am very familiar with the writings of the founding fathers. Stick to political science, american. Your Latin is deplorable.
Response:
Uh, the church in Russia *IS* the Russian Orthodox church. Today, Rome is aiming for corporate reunion with the Orthodox in its long-run strategy, not soliciting individual conversions (though it accepts them) or setting up parallel Uniate churches (though it maintains them for its own people) to hurt the Orthodox churches. (NOTE: I am not advocating persecution of Roman or Eastern Catholics in Russia.) <<There have been at least two papal crusades against Russia and this latest EU(60% RC) sortie against Yugoslavia has been another…you actually think Russians don’t know what the story really is? I don’t know about ‘papal’ crusades against Russia (don’t want to calumnate anybody) and I think the New World Order behind this stupid war really doesn’t care what religion Serbia putatively is. This activity is simply the NWO using Serbia as a laboratory (the 600-year-old Balkan civil war is just an excuse to meddle) to see just how far at this point it can use military power (NATO = the US) to push a sovereign nation around. Russia has reason to be concerned, not just because Serbia is an historic Slavic Orthodox ally. What if Russia dares cross the NWO? (Glad Russia is still armed.) +++++++ + Vsjakoje dychanije da chvalit Hospoda + Let all that hath breath praise the Lord + Are you Orthodox or Catholic? Yes.
Response:
to discover that you are understandably mistaken.
He’s not mistaken. It’s a simple matter of grammar and vocabulary. How the founding fathers may or may not have mistranslated this I have know idea. Dave
Response:
to discover that you are understandably mistaken. He’s not mistaken. It’s a simple matter of grammar and vocabulary. How the founding fathers may or may not have mistranslated this I have know idea. Dave
Lexicographers change vocabularies. Look in a pre-American Revolution Latin-English dictionary, please. That, honest Latinists, the philosophy of the author of the motto, and the writings of Jefferson, Paine, and Adams convince me any other interpretation is merely the result of disinformation. No king and no pope = secular — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order Sorry, american. The Latin inscription on the Great Seal means, "A new order for the ages." Pax vobiscum–Glenn
might mean the same thing; i think when the us was born, guaranteed freedom was relatively new; it was felt that a new order of nations was being forged, getting away from monarchy and supposedly towards a more socially progressive type of world. very fine concept to celebrate in latin on a dollar bill. hopefully the ‘new world order’ is / will be intended as something to lift humankind out of darker ages into something better. unfortunately, that is probably not the motivation; the dollar bill is the sole object of the people in power no matter what it says upon that verysame dollar bill. money is just a tool, but is glorified as an end in itself. the people who run the world are the elite who have most of the money. even churches are mostly just money machines. perhaps, then we should not draw too much inspiration from this inscription, but rather appreciate the irony of a lofty phrase upon this lowly token of our debasement. -JG
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order Sorry, american. The Latin inscription on the Great Seal means, "A new order for the ages." Pax vobiscum–Glenn Sorry Mr. Wright, Get a copy of a Latin-English dictionary more than 200 years old, or speak to an intelligent Latinist. Additionally you might read the writings of the Founders of the U.S.(Jefferson, Adams, Paine) to discover that you are understandably mistaken. — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
i think you could translate that as "New World Order," since something "secular" is of the earth. if it is the same phrase, it is kinda interesting how much the phrase is used by leaders like George Bush. Did Gorby and Clinton and Thatcher use this phrase too? I am sure someone knows this on the conspiracy ng. Is the phrase used for a specific reason or is it just something these leaders used because it sounded right? Has the Pope ever used this phrase? -JG
Response:
As this thread is no longer about Catholics in Russia, please change its name. +++++++ + Vsjakoje dychanije da chvalit Hospoda + Let all that hath breath praise the Lord + Are you Orthodox or Catholic? Yes.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Mr. Wright, Get a copy of a Latin-English dictionary more than 200 years old, or speak to an intelligent Latinist. Additionally you might read the writings of the Founders of the U.S.(Jefferson, Adams, Paine) to discover that you are understandably mistaken. — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order I am an intelligent Latinist. I have a degree in it and I teach it. "The New Secular Order" would be "Novus Ordo Secularis." The word "seclorum" is the genitive plural of "seclum" (alternatively, seculum or saeculum) which means "age, generation, century." It is an objective genitive usage, and should be translated "for the ages." I also teach American literature and am very familiar with the writings of the founding fathers. Stick to political science, american. Your Latin is deplorable.
The professor of Latin who was willing to "tolerate" my translation has gone out of town for the summer. I will find his email address and ask him for "debate points" on the issue. Meantime you might think of the Irishman-come-to-America Charles Thompson who originated the motto and the text of "Common Sense," by Th. Paine. What was the "Old Order," contrasted to the "New Order?" The ancien regime was "King and Pope." New as opposed to that is in fact "secular." Even in modern Latin dictionaries "secular" and "cyclical" (the ages) are listed under seclorum’s root. A grammatical breakdown would be edifying for this non-Latinist but more than likely given the present ng there’s a bias anyway to the non-inflammatory? — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
Hello Jack June 10th posting. Are’nt their Russian Orthodox churchs in Italy,France,Belguim, even Spain and these are "Catholic Countries". You don"t see the Catholic Church trying to get those govt.s to discriminate against the Russian Orthodox Church. Also following your thinking,the only place you could have a Russian Orthodox church in America, would be in Alaska. Its nonesense! John
Response:
What was the "Old Order," contrasted to the "New Order?" The ancien regime was "King and Pope." New as opposed to that is in fact "secular." Even in modern Latin dictionaries "secular" and "cyclical" (the ages) are listed under seclorum’s root.
What I’m pointing out, american, is that you are twisting the Latin to support your own agenda. The founding fathers created a new political order that separated church and state, but they did not intend for the religious institutions of out country to be eliminated (as your twisted translation suggests.)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What was the "Old Order," contrasted to the "New Order?" The ancien regime was "King and Pope." New as opposed to that is in fact "secular." Even in modern Latin dictionaries "secular" and "cyclical" (the ages) are listed under seclorum’s root. What I’m pointing out, american, is that you are twisting the Latin to support your own agenda. The founding fathers created a new political order that separated church and state, but they did not intend for the religious institutions of out country to be eliminated (as your twisted translation suggests.)
Whether inference or agenda, it is incorrect. Please forgive any confusion my writing may have contributed. "Secular order" just cuts out King and Pope…the citizen is sovereign is this land. As Paine said,"The King of America reigns in heaven above." The First Amendment takes care of the rest. BTW went and purchased a "Pocket Oxford Latin Dictionary." Looked up "secular" on the English side and it took me to "saecularis," which tied in to "generations" and "ages." Having read Paine’s "Common Sense," which triggered the Revolution, and the writings of Jefferson, who authored the Declaration, I’m quite confident of my translation. I suspect the motto’s author was not a Latin scholar either. That having been said would still love to hear of the genitive plural? — Novus Ordo Seclorum : The New Secular Order
Response:
The church in Russia is being harassed by the govt. at the prodding of the Russian Orthodox church. Catholics in America must stand up for our Co-Relgionists in Russia.Do what ever you can to support the Catholic church in Russia. John
I totally agree. We can start by NOT making such blanket accusations against our fellow Christians. The Orthodox Church in Russia is a CHRISTIAN sect, coming from the Catholic Church. It is one of Rome
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